p.2 #1 · Is this the future of Sony Alpha firmware updates ?
dclark wrote:
Thanks @LBJ2.
Here is what I think are the answers to my questions.
1. Yes
2. Kernel access
3. Requires kernel access. What updating process requires kernel access is not known.
4. Yes
Is that right?
I believe this increased level of access is similar, if not identical, to what Windows call Administrative access, which can be given to an application if the user is using an Administrator account. It takes only a second. I don't recall if the Sony updater I used to install the latest firmware to my A1 asked for Administrative access or not, but if it did I would not be reluctant to grant it.
Apple has a much more difficult process, as described in your link, which greatly discourages and inhibits users from granting such access. I can see why users are aggravated.
Does anyone know why the firmware installer requires kernel access? What operations require it? I would guess that it may be low level access to the camera memory.
Dave
Edit: It seems that LBJ2 deleted his reply. ...Show more →
Opps. I was editing my comment and accidentally deleted before your response and was too lazy to type it out again. Looks like you got the gist of it with regards to macOS and now Apple Silicon security policies with your summary.
It would be so much simpler IMO to avoid the OS altogether, even if Windows doesn't require the extra security steps that macOS does which can complicate matters further. Too much of this process relies upon the state of the users OS...plenty of potential for user errors as we see all over the internet.
p.2 #2 · Is this the future of Sony Alpha firmware updates ?
From my (somewhat limited) experience with firmware, microcontrollers/processors etc at a lower level, is that using a PC is a more reliable/recoverable method of updating the firmware. Updating through an SD card requires the host OS/bootstrapping process to be fully operable, and if it is interrupted mid update then it can brick the device. It tends to be more reliable/recoverable if you do the updated with another computer controlling the process.
It does however rely on the vendor to update the software and drivers required, and Sony is very poor at updating software full stop. Mac support for their cameras in general is a farce, probably because Macs are much less widely used in Japan historically.
p.2 #3 · Is this the future of Sony Alpha firmware updates ?
I don't think there can be a reasonable argument made against updates from the card. Having said that, with the current frequency of updates delivered by Sony, I don't think the current approach is that much of a problem ...
p.2 #4 · Is this the future of Sony Alpha firmware updates ?
It has been pointed out a couple of times here and IMO is the crux of the issue. Sony's approach depends upon that state of each and every computer being used to update the camera. Taking the computers out of the equation by going directly to the SD card update scenario eliminates ALL of those potential problems. It doesn't take anything more than common sense to come to that conclusion. Said it earlier, Sony engineers applied zero practical logic in designing their update process which certainly points to their lack of engaging input from users who quickly would have steered them in the direction of using the SD method.
Granted, none of us have to go through this update process on any sort of frequency but IMO that should NOT be used as a justification which furthers the myopic thinking/approach of Sony engineers. Bad design is just that, bad design.
p.2 #5 · Is this the future of Sony Alpha firmware updates ?
The thing from our point of view is the design great cameras but they can’t figure out to use a simple SD card approach
I have been shooting digital since it came out in what 1991 and almost any OEM I had even Phase Medium format it’s been SD or Whatever card you use style of updating. Seriously do they not look what others have been doing for years
p.2 #6 · Is this the future of Sony Alpha firmware updates ?
To get a firmware on a SD card you still need a computer. It’s just it is needed at a different step in the process. What Sony needs to build is a small update workflow right in the camera that connects to WI-FI and automatically downloads and updates the firmware; no external computer or SD card needed.
However, Sony is a Japanese company and the current user experience is quite adequate for a Japanese brand. It is also not broken enough or used enough for Sony to do anything real about it. Sony is not losing any, or much, market share because of this clunky computer based workflow. I suspect some sort of Android based camera interface will become the defacto industry standard in coming years and then Sony and others will jump on it with their tiny tweaks on top to differentiate their brands (like most android phones now).
p.2 #7 · Is this the future of Sony Alpha firmware updates ?
Several commenters blame the state of the OS, drivers and other stuff for the problems Apple computers have with Sony FW updates. They say it is not just the need to temporarily allow kernel access. That means the answer to question 1 above is No, and the answer to question 4 above is that some Apple users keep their systems up to date and others do not. Is that what is being claimed?
What I don't understand is why this is peculiar to Apple computers. Lots of PC users are derelict in maintaining their systems too. Why are they not having problems just like Mac users? The complaint that Sony's method depends on the state of the OS, drivers and other stuff should impact both groups equally.
If you don't maintain your system lots of bad stuff happens, not just Sony updates.
p.2 #8 · Is this the future of Sony Alpha firmware updates ?
This debate got quite philosophical, but I think it boils down to one question:
are you going to keep using current method if Sony makes other available (be it via card or wifi or imaging edge mobile app...) ?
p.2 #9 · Is this the future of Sony Alpha firmware updates ?
dclark - more modern macOS releases have constrained what kernel extensions can do by default. So folks who aren’t running into issues have either reduced security on their machines or haven’t updated their OS. Apple provides a new framework that can accomplish what Sony is doing in a much more secure manner, it’s been available for several years now, but to adopt it Sony would have to invest in their firmware updater more often than once per decade. It was recently announced that this framework will even work on iPads later this year.
p.2 #11 · Is this the future of Sony Alpha firmware updates ?
I'm fine with connecting the cam to Windows computer and updating the firmware. Also, it would be nice to be able to update the cam when it's connected to the internet wirelessly. The method when a memory card is required MUST stay.
What bothers me is would it be possible to RESTORE previous version?
p.2 #12 · Is this the future of Sony Alpha firmware updates ?
Glad to see I'm not alone in this quandary with Sony. I too had no trouble downloading updates on my Mac via card when I used Canon, which is still a Japanese company. So I believe to point the finger at Sony for being a bit derelict in making it an easy task to maintain your cameras with current firmware updates is appropriate.
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