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Archive 2022 · Find the Q2 Image - Ricoh GR III(x) vs Leica Q2

  
 
BrandonSi
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p.1 #1 · Find the Q2 Image - Ricoh GR III(x) vs Leica Q2


I wanted to share this with you all and see if anyone finds it as insightful as I did. I love my Leicas.. the M10 and SL2-S, something about the 24MP sensor and the Leica M glass is just perfect to me.

I've had the Q2 for a while, but after shooting thousands of images with the 24mp sensors, I can pick the Q2 out of a lineup any day. Don't get me wrong, it's an amazing camera and that Summilux lens is fantastic.. but given the price point, that slight variation in the rendering and feel of the images always had me wondering.. If I'm going to be OK with deviating from the 24 MP Leica sensor "look", what else in the compact camera world might I get that would be similar to the Q2 at a lower price point? After all, if I sell the Q2, that's more M glass to afford for my M10 / SL2-S..!

To that end, I spent some time with the Ricoh GR III and GR IIIx and have been really impressed with the lens rendering. Now, to be fair, the images straight out of the Ricohs are not as good as the Q2. Full stop. But I did create a quick preset that I think gets it 90% of the way there with some minor tweaking.. and I'm starting to think it's good enough, given the ~500% price differential. I would even go as far as to say the Ricohs are at least the equivalent to the Q2 in high ISO performance, if not slightly better...

But I digress.. back to the point of all of this!

Here are 5 images.. 2 GR III, 1 Q2 and 2 GR IIIx. If no one told me which was which, I'm not sure if I could pick the Q2 image out.. and I consider myself pretty good with spotting Q2 images.

What do you all think? Can you find the Q2 image?

For what it's worth, the Q2 image is SOOC DNG via LR CC. I didn't touch a slider or tweak a thing. The Ricoh GR III / IIIx images are DNG's edited to match the Q2 in LR CC.

I'm not quite ready to sell the Q2 Reporter.. it's an amazingly fun little camera, but I am thinking about it just a bit more after going through this experiment!





Image A







Image B







Image C







Image D







Image E




Jun 15, 2022 at 09:08 PM
photos_of_chu
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p.1 #2 · Find the Q2 Image - Ricoh GR III(x) vs Leica Q2


Gonna go with Image E being the Q2, judging purely off how vivid the skin tone looks!


Jun 15, 2022 at 11:17 PM
gregfountain
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p.1 #3 · Find the Q2 Image - Ricoh GR III(x) vs Leica Q2


Not going to pick an image (but if I was, I would probably lean towards the first ). Like you, I have the SL2-S and the fact that the Q2 uses the same battery, means I don't have to double up on two sets of batteries and chargers when I travel and since the menus are almost identical, lends itself to intuitive control regardless of which body I pick up. A bonus is using either of my speedlights on either body.

All that said, I've always been impressed with the images recorded on a GR cameras.



Jun 16, 2022 at 12:14 AM
SlowDriver
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p.1 #4 · Find the Q2 Image - Ricoh GR III(x) vs Leica Q2


I bought a GRiii after the (easily preventable but Leica did not give a f*%k about its customers) Leica TL2/CL demise.

So far I have been very impressed with the camera and I now regret not going that route much earlier (and spending all that money on Leica)...

I would probably also go with E (with B being my second choice).

I had the original Q but sold it as next to the SL and the T it was not getting much use.



Jun 16, 2022 at 06:25 AM
BrandonSi
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p.1 #5 · Find the Q2 Image - Ricoh GR III(x) vs Leica Q2


gregfountain wrote:
Not going to pick an image (but if I was, I would probably lean towards the first ). Like you, I have the SL2-S and the fact that the Q2 uses the same battery, means I don't have to double up on two sets of batteries and chargers when I travel and since the menus are almost identical, lends itself to intuitive control regardless of which body I pick up. A bonus is using either of my speedlights on either body.

All that said, I've always been impressed with the images recorded on a GR cameras.


Agreed with pretty much everything, but I struggle when wanting to take a small, high IQ camera between the M10 and the Q2, knowing my preferred look out of the box is the M10 and 35 or 50 lux asph, and that while nice, the Q2 image is going to look a bit different. I think an M10 + GR III(x) might be a more preferable combo for me than choosing between the M10 and Q2 for a quick trip.

First world problems for sure.. but the Leica struggle is real! :P




Jun 16, 2022 at 06:27 AM
BrandonSi
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p.1 #6 · Find the Q2 Image - Ricoh GR III(x) vs Leica Q2


SlowDriver wrote:
I bought a GRiii after the (easily preventable but Leica did not give a f*%k about its customers) Leica TL2/CL demise.

So far I have been very impressed with the camera and I now regret not going that route much earlier (and spending all that money on Leica)...

I would probably also go with E (with B being my second choice).

I had the original Q but sold it as next to the SL and the T it was not getting much use.


GMTA! I came very close to buying into the CL system, but decided to check into the Ricoh's first due to size, and well, it would be cheaper to buy both the III and IIIx than just the CL body.. Might rent the CL one day (or revisit if Leica ever updates the line), but I think I'd rather invest in M glass and the L-mount FF AF lens here and there as needed instead of building out a collection of crop sensor lenses.



Jun 16, 2022 at 06:30 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #7 · Find the Q2 Image - Ricoh GR III(x) vs Leica Q2


I've always liked the images I've seen on FM coming out of the GR, etc. Being a Pentax little cousin, of sorts, it comes from good stock, imo. It was high on my list of consideration for a small camera ... I went with the GX8 instead back when I was looking (for diff reasons). But, suffice to say it puts out a respectable image.

As to the comp vs. the Q2, plenty of subtle variation in these. WB and exposure variance gets seen in the paint wall color diff's. The color in E does seem a bit diff, but the exposure is a bit diff, too. so that could be the exposure vs. the camera color profiling, a bit too.

Hard to gauge the lens diff, since the proximity to the people girl varies. Maybe the closer focus capability of C is an indicator. Seems to have some vignetting and tonal variation differently too. But, here again, the comps aren't quite comparable for nuances. "Edited to match the Q2"

No matter, the point is the proximity between them is noted after post-processing them to match. Could have gone the other way. You could also post-process the Q2 to match the GR. I recall a long time back in some threads where the PP of brand X was done and the look of the Zeiss glass being compared to was emulated rather well, by the PP.

It would be interesting to see how these same images as a set of five matched to the GR would compare to this set of five.




Jun 16, 2022 at 06:53 AM
BrandonSi
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p.1 #8 · Find the Q2 Image - Ricoh GR III(x) vs Leica Q2


RustyBug wrote:
I've always liked the images I've seen on FM coming out of the GR, etc. Being a Pentax little cousin, of sorts, it comes from good stock, imo. It was high on my list of consideration for a small camera ... I went with the GX8 instead back when I was looking (for diff reasons). But, suffice to say it puts out a respectable image.

As to the comp vs. the Q2, plenty of subtle variation in these. WB and exposure variance gets seen in the paint wall color diff's. The color in E does seem a bit diff, but the
...Show more

Definitely some variation in framing which was intentional, otherwise it'd be pretty easy to pick out 40mm vs 28mm.. They are all at the same aperture though, f/2.8.

And I agree, I think with enough time one could edit an image from an IQ4 150 and Rodenstock glass to look like a Holga 120.. but the interesting aspect here was the lens rendering. To me that is the difficult part to get right.. Try as I might, I always struggled to get a similar look out of Canon and Sony sensors and glass.. they were always too clinical, which led to adapting glass, which led to AF issues, etc...

It seems that whatever their initial goal, Ricoh has designed their lenses (or used existing designs) and ended up with a Leica-quality look to the images. The colors are off, clearly, but that's the easy part to fix, it takes me about 5 seconds per image to correct the color.

I should go look at the lens specs on the GR III / IIIx, I'd be curious if they share heritage with some of their similar Leica counterparts.

Anyway, Q/Q2 clearly have other amazing aspects like the full frame sensor, the much faster lens, and the tangible feel of the body and menus, etc.. there's a lot of "pros" to a Q/2 system, but from an IQ perspective, I think Ricoh manages to offer two compelling (and certainly less expensive) options for those who seek it.



Jun 16, 2022 at 07:54 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #9 · Find the Q2 Image - Ricoh GR III(x) vs Leica Q2


Your point about lens design approach ... I tend to think of Pentax as having some Japanese-Leica tendencies. So, to that regard, if the design ethos is similar ... that "less clinical" look is probably there to a degree.

I have my K-1, so I've studied Pentax glass offerings a while back, too. So, no surprise that there might be some trickle down into the little cousin's rendering.

Obviously a different animal from the Q2, but for the package size, I've always thought it presented well in the images I've seen in FM.



Jun 16, 2022 at 10:01 AM
littleego
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p.1 #10 · Find the Q2 Image - Ricoh GR III(x) vs Leica Q2


Are the Q2 images cropped?


Jun 16, 2022 at 12:19 PM
BrandonSi
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p.1 #11 · Find the Q2 Image - Ricoh GR III(x) vs Leica Q2


littleego wrote:
Are the Q2 images cropped?


Nope! I didn't touch anything on the Q2 image, no color adjustments or crop or anything.



Jun 16, 2022 at 12:58 PM
mbphoto_2.8
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p.1 #12 · Find the Q2 Image - Ricoh GR III(x) vs Leica Q2


These could be smartphone pictures...
The third one has a lot shallower depth of field, but that could just be the subject distance.

Guessing:
A and C are 40mm (GRIII x) (least visible distortion)
B and D are GR III
C might be the Q2 (larger sensor feeling with distortion on chair)

None of them has vignetting, so I'm assuming they were shot stopped down.


That said:
If that's what you use your camera for, then the Q/Q2 is definitely a waste of money.
Family pictures, pets, street photography during the day, etc. you can do that stuff with the painfully slow GR or a phone.

I feel like 90% of all Q owners would be just as well off with a GR, to be honest.

If you, however, shoot events with terrible lighting and rely on a small camera with reliable and fast autofocus, and more than decent image quality at high iso values... well, the Q clearly wins hands down.



Jun 16, 2022 at 03:39 PM
flash
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p.1 #13 · Find the Q2 Image - Ricoh GR III(x) vs Leica Q2


It’s not about the images. Never has been and never will be. If that’s why you’re buying Leica, you’re doing it wrong. If it were just about the files, we’d all be shooting with an A7R4 or an RX1RII.

Leica’s are about the PROCESS not the final result. The handling, controls, weight, design and menus. Sure, there are some nice stuff in the lenses but you can strap those on a Sony or a Nikon. If things like menus and ease of use tempt you then Leica is great. Otherwise buy anything else.

Leica’s do NOT make better images. Photographers make better images.

Gordon



Jun 16, 2022 at 04:48 PM
flash
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p.1 #14 · Find the Q2 Image - Ricoh GR III(x) vs Leica Q2


mbphoto_2.8 wrote:
:
If that's what you use your camera for, then the Q/Q2 is definitely a waste of money.
Family pictures, pets, street photography during the day, etc. you can do that stuff with the painfully slow GR or a phone.



No. No. No. No. No.

I really dislike statements like this.

As a working photographer for 35 years the most important images in my career are the snapshots of my family and friends. Saying that you should use lesser equipment for you personal memories is silly. Use what ever you want. Photography for many is as much about the process as the results. These are the memories you’ll treasure when you’re old and wrinkly. Not some devastatingly excellent street shot of some fat dude you don’t know. Use the best gear you have for your family. They deserve the best.

And for the record, I’ve submitted and had published work shot on my phone as part of a commercial shoot. And my favourite shot of my son was taken on an M9.

Plus kids make excellent test subjects……

Gordon



Jun 16, 2022 at 05:00 PM
BrandonSi
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p.1 #15 · Find the Q2 Image - Ricoh GR III(x) vs Leica Q2


flash wrote:
It’s not about the images. Never has been and never will be. If that’s why you’re buying Leica, you’re doing it wrong. If it were just about the files, we’d all be shooting with an A7R4 or an RX1RII.

Leica’s are about the PROCESS not the final result. The handling, controls, weight, design and menus. Sure, there are some nice stuff in the lenses but you can strap those on a Sony or a Nikon. If things like menus and ease of use tempt you then Leica is great. Otherwise buy anything else.

Leica’s do NOT make better images. Photographers make better
...Show more

I could say the same thing about my Cambo WRS-1200 and MF digital back setup.. but nonetheless, this particular Leica is a closed system (in that it has a fixed lens), so I think it's certainly fair to talk about the images in the context of other cameras that are also closed systems and have fixed lenses.



Jun 16, 2022 at 05:10 PM
grahamgibson
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p.1 #16 · Find the Q2 Image - Ricoh GR III(x) vs Leica Q2


Mmm Chipotle... I'm gonna go with:

A - Q2
B - GRIII
C - GRIIIx
D - GRIIIx
E - GRIII



Jun 16, 2022 at 05:27 PM
curious80
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p.1 #17 · Find the Q2 Image - Ricoh GR III(x) vs Leica Q2


My guess is same as above:

A- Q2
B - GRIII
C - GRIIIx
D - GRIIIx
E - GRIII

C and D seem most likely to be 40mm shots hence the choice. Between A and E, A seems to have shallower DOF despite being a slightly wider shot compared to E, indicating that out of the two, this should be the Q2 shot. That leaves B and E as GRIII.



Jun 16, 2022 at 06:14 PM
gordec
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p.1 #18 · Find the Q2 Image - Ricoh GR III(x) vs Leica Q2


Why not get an used RX1Rii. It rivals the Q2 in image quality. Much smaller and lighter. Q2 is much bigger than RX1Rii and GRx in terms of real life handling. RX1Rii is in my coat pocket during the winter. The only down side is that it won't fit into your jeans pocket like a Gr, but I do feel the image quality improvement from the RX1Rii to Gr is significant.

It has left me with many memorable everyday shots of my family.


























Jun 16, 2022 at 06:18 PM
BrandonSi
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p.1 #19 · Find the Q2 Image - Ricoh GR III(x) vs Leica Q2


gordec wrote:
Why not get an used RX1Rii. It rivals the Q2 in image quality. Much smaller and lighter. Q2 is much bigger than RX1Rii and GRx in terms of real life handling. RX1Rii is in my coat pocket during the winter. The only down side is that it won't fit into your jeans pocket like a Gr, but I do feel the image quality improvement from the RX1Rii to Gr is significant.

It has left me with many memorable everyday shots of my family.



You know, I've considered it.. and I just really am not a fan of Sony. I've owned an A9, A7s i/ii and every A7Rx they've made and despite over a decade with the FE system I never came to enjoy shooting with them.

That being said, I've not given the RX1Rii a fair shake as it's clearly different in many regards from the A7/9 cameras.. and I do love Zeiss lenses, I've got a number of C/Y lenses I adapt to my SL2-S. If Lensrentals has one I might give it a shot before making the decision to sell the Q2.




Jun 16, 2022 at 06:25 PM
mojoh
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p.1 #20 · Find the Q2 Image - Ricoh GR III(x) vs Leica Q2


Image E


Jun 16, 2022 at 08:18 PM
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