Archive 2021 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.36 #1 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
duncang wrote:
You are comparing no egg to a bad egg and saying they are equal because you don't eat eggs. But for those who do a bad egg is better than no egg at all.
In competition terms, as you are want to put it, it was a walkover in those conditions with this photographer - the Z9 never even got out the starting blocks ! but as I said your mileage may vary.
You know like in tennis where the other guy gets to go to the next round if you can't play for any reason.
You don't get to wait until the wind stops blowing or the temperate reaches a level that suits you.
Likewise with wildlife you can't always chose the conditions.
The purpose of the outing was to get some, any shots of swallows with the Z9 and not to compare the two cameras - which appears to be something you are doing. I have a good number of decent swallow images in worse conditions so no need to prove that again. If that is what you were hoping for then sorry to dissapoint.
Now you may feel I was being unfair because it was a gravel track - but that is where I play - in the gravel, as does anyone targeting these subjects - so my tools need to work there.
Sounds like you may be on nice smooth hard asphalt so your mileage may vary - but then my post isn't applicable so just move on.
In any event at the time for me it was simply sufficient to prove that acquisition and focus tracking was indeed possible in those conditions and to then get back to trying to get at least one image with the Z9 before the swallows took off, which they duly did.
Hanging around in one spot invites trouble in the form of falcons as they have learned.
...And then it was on to the terns and more stubborn reluctant acquisition surprises...
Next time I will endeavour to record the EVF and send it to Nikon imploring them to fix it - as I said previously I am sure a dedicated bird mode could be made to be much more responsive to these subjects.
I don't have a Z6 anymore but I am sure even it would have done a better job with the initial acquisition.
And yes it may well be that the Z9 works better in other conditions, or with a different photographer for these same subjects - and I have never claimed it wouldn't.
It was a cautionary post indicating that I had little or no success under conditions where I would not expect to have problems, and I think I have had more success than most at capturing swallows in flight so have some experience to call upon.
Sunlit subject against dark background - it doesn't usually get much better imo. Harsh light might help autofocus but not really conditions I would shoot in.
Again you are telling me what I am comparing when that is not what I am doing. My point is that although you didn't get any good swallow images with the Z9. You didn't get any good swallow images with the A1 yet you thought it was important to point out your shot with the A1. You still haven't told us the details of that shot. Was it with the 200-600? Did you use a TC? Those things would be good to know.
What we don't know is what it would take to get good shots in that situation. You speculate about it, but it is hard to put any stock in those speculations as you have no evidence to back up your speculations. What I was pointing to was that lack of evidence.
Apr 12, 2022 at 07:24 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.36 #2 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
duncang wrote:
My post was about my experience shooting swallows - and any opinion was only about the usefulness for shooting small fast subjects like swallows and terns - but I am careful to point out that it is up to the reader to do their own testing and form their own opinion and yet you seemed to expect more 'evidence'.
Perhaps you missed that.
Yeah, just like when you just said, "I don't have a Z6 anymore but I am sure even it would have done a better job with the initial acquisition." I am sorry but that is rank speculation with zero evidence, yet you report being sure about something you never tested. It is that sort of statement with zero evidence yet certainty (you are sure after all) that can and should be challenged.
p.36 #3 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
I have to say that this one probably takes the cake for the all time most absurd internet photography argument. Just wanted to congratulate you on a job well done
p.36 #4 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
aboutthelight wrote:
I have to say that this one probably takes the cake for the all time most absurd internet photography argument. Just wanted to congratulate you on a job well done
Ha. This one narrowly beat out the utterly inane argument about stepper motors. Didnt know yall kept it so wild over here in the Sony forum.
p.36 #5 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
aboutthelight wrote:
I have to say that this one probably takes the cake for the all time most absurd internet photography argument. Just wanted to congratulate you on a job well done
And all this from someone that claims he doesnt like to argue.
Apr 12, 2022 at 10:22 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.36 #6 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
chez wrote:
And all this from someone that claims he doesnt like to argue.
You really do never miss an opportunity to take verbal pot shots at me in particular. I will remind you that you don't know me and you don't know what I like. If you think I am happy how this thread unfolded and I was trying to argue with folks you are clueless. Nothing about this thread has been pleasant or something that I liked.
p.36 #7 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
aboutthelight wrote:
I have to say that this one probably takes the cake for the all time most absurd internet photography argument. Just wanted to congratulate you on a job well done
It's a recurring theme unfortunately if you take a look at some of the participants ...
p.36 #8 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
I find your experience a bit shocking and you may want to perform a total reset or send it back to Nikon if you think the Z9 doesn't even do as good as the Z6.
Don't get me wrong and I'm not here to argue that the Z9 is equal to or better than the A1. My own tests have proven that the A1 is superior to Z9 in some specific scenarios, particularly when shooting against busy backgrounds or subjects transitioning from Sky to greens or shooting against water foreground/ background. However, I feel the Z9 is still very good to photograph action.
In the last month or so I was photographing diving fly catchers in overcast weather conditions and one of the things all of us photographers noticed was that none of the cameras were good enough to track such extreme action automatically (Z9, R5, A1, pro DSLRs). With some assistance, we were successful with flycatchers. With my Z9, I simply turn off subject tracking and use Wide-L and carefully pan to get action shots.
I wrote a detailed post on BCG forum about this experience so I'm linking it instead of describing it again.
I was also able to track swallows in flight against sky or relatively smooth backgrounds using Auto area AF but yes, even when the BG is slightly busy, the Z9 struggles in Auto area mode. Wide L works well but it is quite a challenge to keep swallows within the wide area L box. After using the Z9 for about 3 months, I feel the 3D AF and Auto area AF are good for perched subjects. A combination of Wide-L+3D or Auto area is good for larger/ predictable birds in flight like pelicans, ducks, raptors etc. i.e. initial AF acquisition using Wide-L and then move to Auto area or 3D seamlessly using AF persistence setting. For extreme action, Wide-L with tracking set to off is the best bet so far.
duncang wrote:
Well I just had a fun afternoon out with the Z9(500PF+1.4TC) last week - sadly not a single swallow image to show for it - and there were plenty about, flying relatively close in a predicable pattern just above the water.
As a reference here is one from the A1. I just grabbed it for a few quick shots to double check there wasnt something strange going on with the weather(!) - maybe a solar flare affecting electronics.
Not sure w*f is wrong with the Z9 af but it sure does not like swallows.
In fact I was stunned at how it point blank refused to pick them up - that is super disappointing.
I tried every af mode and even with pre-focus where the bird is clearly in focus in the view finder the cameras af just hops off into the ether somewhere. Strange.
It also seemed to really struggle with small terns - its like they were invisible to the camera despite being brightly lit against a dark cloudy sky - you would think it couldn't be easier. See pics at the end taken with the A1.
And for bigger birds really one has to use Wide Area S for best results or it is quite slow to pick them up. Wide Area L is like Wide Area Medium on the Sony but noticeably slower at detecting and acquiring the birds.
I found Auto AF (full frame mode) did not pick anything up so not useful for birds in flight.
And the EVF was dismal for the small birds imo. The typical jerky motion that one sees with slow refresh rates. No noticeable lag though.
All up gets an epic fail from me for my kind of fast action with small subjects - it is just hopeless at fast subject detection and locking on focus - and I mean hopeless - worse than my a6400.
Oh well hopefully they are working hard on some improvements or I find out it was user error. Sadly I doubt it was the latter given there are many others who reported the weird OOF issue.
In my experience it is nothing like the oof issue experienced with other mirrorless camera. This is more like autofocus is just turning off completely or so confused it just stops in its tracks - it was not even hunting - weird.
If anyone has any suggestions as to settings to improve the ability of the camera to even see the small well contrasted birds in the sky (against blue sky, white clouds, dark cloud with sunlit swallows) let me know as it is possible there is some basic setting I missed.
I tried all the AF modes and Wide Area S seemed to be the quickest and most reliable for detecting and locking focus on the bigger birds but even then it will not track them all over the frame.
3D tracking was too small a box to put on a flying swallow.
I was using animal detect only and tried with swallows at various distances. Usually one has to acquire them a bit of a distance off in order to track then as they come closer but I had no success ever of the camera detecting them except the one time only where the bird was directly overhead. That is ONE TIME - I kid you not.
For now I would stick with the A9/A1, R6/R5/R3 for small fast action subjects or even any of the non-stacked Sony's like the a6400, a7riv, a7iv as they at least manage fast acquisition and tracking which is the critical part.
Other than that it is a tank of a camera for sure. The grip lock is not quite up to standard, pretty useless actually and kept getting bumped and unlocked with the resulting unwanted shots from the grip shutter button. Duct tape will solve that though.
Some pics of the lit up terns that also seemed to be somewhat challenging for the focus acquisition.
Pretty harsh comments but there you go. Certainly the exact opposite to my first experiences of picking up the A9 or the R5 where they latch on to anything and everything immediately.
In fact I am pretty sure even my Z6 would have at least acquired the birds even if the lag when shooting made following near impossible. ...Show more →
p.36 #11 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
vdo1 wrote:
Just noticed that the fiercest arguers haven't posted any photos.
Well, there are no IQ issues whatsoever in the photos he posted. Also nothing to complain about in terms of composition or light. The selection of subjects is simply perfect. Given such a flawless body of work, we should obviously treat anything he says as gospel.
Apr 14, 2022 at 04:22 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.36 #12 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
Daran wrote:
Well, there are no IQ issues whatsoever in the photos he posted. Also nothing to complain about in terms of composition or light. The selection of subjects is simply perfect. Given such a flawless body of work, we should obviously treat anything he says as gospel.
Wow days later and the personal attacks continue. Perhaps this thread should be retitled, "if you disagree with us we will attack your motives and character. Expect snarky comments and lots of sarcasm because we like to make fun of. people who disagree with us."
p.36 #14 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
Steve Spencer wrote:
Wow days later and the personal attacks continue.
What personal attack? I see only praise. Of course since you seem to dislike the composition and noise level of my comment, it must be without merit. My sincerest apologies. I do think you should have disposed of my comment right after seeing it, though. No point in analyzing the logic of aesthetically unpleasing data.
Perhaps this thread should be retitled, "if you disagree with us we will attack your motives and character. Expect snarky comments and lots of sarcasm because we like to make fun of. people who disagree with us."
Well, I'd suggest troll-fest, but who am I to disagree with you.
p.36 #15 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
"Nikon has also revealed that it plans to release a new camcorder-style grip for the Z9 and a new first-party CFexpress card. The company is developing the MC-N10 Remote Grip, which controls Nikon Z-mount mirrorless cameras via a wired connection. Nikon shows the grip attached to a fluid head arm which provides many of the buttons found on the camera itself but is positioned in a more advantageous location for use in professional video workflows. While primarily for video shooters, Nikon stipulates it also will work for still shooting."
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.36 #17 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
Daran wrote:
What personal attack? I see only praise. Of course since you seem to dislike the composition and noise level of my comment, it must be without merit. My sincerest apologies. I do think you should have disposed of my comment right after seeing it, though. No point in analyzing the logic of aesthetically unpleasing data.
Well, I'd suggest troll-fest, but who am I to disagree with you.
The point is it is days later and the comments are still about the people and praise for photos that were described as not existing obviously aren't about the photos or praise for the photography. They quite obviously aren't praise. Please stop the personal attacks. It is beneath you.
p.36 #18 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
Buckeye2604 wrote:
120hz EVF, nice! The pre-release capture seems to be a feature birders will find beneficial.
According to Chris/DPR no degradation in EVF IQ in 120Hz either.
Apr 14, 2022 at 08:19 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.36 #19 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
Buckeye2604 wrote:
120hz EVF, nice! The pre-release capture seems to be a feature birders will find beneficial.
Unfortunately, it seems to be only for jpeg. That you have to have the target in the frame and composed well for precapture to work limits its usefulness considerably. I don't think the A1 is missing much by not having this feature.
