p.20 #1 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
RoamingScott wrote:
The rumor is the 400 2.8 TC will have "new motors". I suspect all the larger Nikon primes from this point will as well.
I agree it's silly the 100-400 has steppers, but in practice, it's not all that slow. If the Nikon AF system wasn't so jumpy from subject to background, it wouldn't be an issue at all.
My experience with stepper motors (Sigma DNs) is that they are not slow in general AF operation at all, but they simply are not able to keep up when tracking...
That's of course only Sigma's implementation, maybe Nikon can do better.
... and @Maxxus46 , I find your updates interesting (I don't follow these people on fb and I stopped reading Nikon forum) so please do not let yourself be censored .
p.20 #2 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
j4nu wrote:
My experience with stepper motors (Sigma DNs) is that, that they are not slow in general AF operation at all, but they simply are not able to keep up when tracking...
That's of course only Sigma's implementation, maybe Nikon can do better.
... and @Maxxus46@ , I find your updates interesting (I don't follow these people on fb and I stopped reading Nikon forum) so please do not let yourself be censored .
Depends on what you're tracking. Birds flying along a line perpendicular to you? Shouldn't be a problem.
Barn swallows, bees, or dragonflies? Probably not as good as linear. For 90% of applications, steppers should be more than fine.
p.20 #3 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
RoamingScott wrote:
Depends on what you're tracking. Birds flying along a line perpendicular to you? Shouldn't be a problem.
Barn swallows, bees, or dragonflies? Probably not as good as linear. For 90% of applications, steppers should be more than fine.
Right, I meant the more challenging case - when movement is towards the camera and not too far away...
I'll add I was one of the defenders of DN's stepper motors some time ago, but once I tested this kind of tracking it become apparent they are not nearly as good as Sony's XDs (again, might be only the case for Sigma).
p.20 #4 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
When birds are coming directly at me fast and closing to close distance it is amazing to finally hear the 600GMs AF motors....at all other times they are dead quiet...but they work hard in those situations and they succeed with a decent hit rate.
Jan 07, 2022 at 03:29 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.20 #5 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
1bwana1 wrote:
The level of understanding of a system, how it works, and how it best blends with ones own personal style and needs, is a set of very complex relationships.
I think that is well demonstrated in this video of using the Sony a1 to solve a challenge when photographing Swallows in a particular environment. It will take some time until we get similarly in depth videos for the Z9.
he's not doing much that's specific to sony, for instance he's not acquiring the target using sony real-time tracking with expand flexible spot, which is how it's done for a lot of sports shooting.
i like his technique, but most of it can be applied to just about any camera, it's just an example of wide-area tracking where the camera grabs the closest target, starting with a pre-set plane of focus, the camera is doing all the work.
experienced shooters know to use certain techniques before they pick up any camera, for instance with sports it's always shoot wide open, 1/800th bare minimum, typically but not always float the iso, all that's left is understanding how to implement target acquisition, and there are already a zillion z9 videos demonstrating how to do that... so i don't buy this excuse that people need to "learn" how to use a z9, jared for instance has extensive nikon experience, it was his go-to brand for years.
p.20 #6 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
j4nu wrote:
My experience with stepper motors (Sigma DNs) is that they are not slow in general AF operation at all, but they simply are not able to keep up when tracking...
That's of course only Sigma's implementation, maybe Nikon can do better.
... and @Maxxus46@ , I find your updates interesting (I don't follow these people on fb and I stopped reading Nikon forum) so please do not let yourself be censored .
Just trying to be helpful for those thinking about a Z9... I've followed Alex for years before he was shooting Sony so it's not about camera brand for me (he is an amazing wildlife photographer) i figured some may find the info useful. But then there are the diehards that will come at me with pitch forks if I say anything bad about Nikon 🤣
Can't wait to see what someone like Geoff has to say about this combo as well
p.20 #7 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
Steve Perry's initial verdict on A1 v Z9. Still early days and he reserves the right to change his opinion after more Z9 time.
"I still really like the a1. The Z9 is great too but after using it a bit I think if I absolutely had to pick one or the other, I'd go with the a1. Mostly because of the customization options that are simply missing on the Z9 and I just like the feel of the a1 better (not a popular opinion, but it is what it is). Maybe with time and firmware updates I'll start to prefer the Z9 - and it is admittedly early in process for me - but that's where I am at the moment. And, I fully reserve the right to change my mind !
Still, no matter which way you go it's all good. We're really starting to compare Ferraris and Lamborghinis here."
p.20 #8 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
arbitrage wrote:
Steve Perry's initial verdict on A1 v Z9. Still early days and he reserves the right to change his opinion after more Z9 time.
"I still really like the a1. The Z9 is great too but after using it a bit I think if I absolutely had to pick one or the other, I'd go with the a1. Mostly because of the customization options that are simply missing on the Z9 and I just like the feel of the a1 better (not a popular opinion, but it is what it is). Maybe with time and firmware updates I'll start to prefer the Z9 - and it is admittedly early in process for me - but that's where I am at the moment. And, I fully reserve the right to change my mind !
Still, no matter which way you go it's all good. We're really starting to compare Ferraris and Lamborghinis here."
p.20 #9 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
I got to play with the Z9 for a few moments yesterday shooting a Snowy Owl. There was no action as the bird just sat there and the light was still a bit harsh. I did notice that the EVF seemed to be just a touch more jittery than what I am used to on the A1. Difference was slight but noticeable as it was just not the same 100% smoothness that I am used to. 3 times I went back to it to test the EVF and all 3 it just did not feel the same as on the a1. Certainly it is a massive step up from that crappy Z7ii so I am very happy for my Nikon shooting friends. May just be splitting hairs at this point but A1 felt better to me.
p.20 #12 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
nobody23 wrote:
That thread is no more!?!
The Nikon boys freaked out over this one. They really expected Steve Perry to switch back to Nikon with the Z9. Looks like that isn't happening.
Jan 09, 2022 at 02:00 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.20 #13 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
nobody23 wrote:
That thread is no more!?!
steve deleted his own thread because his nikon base cried? that's pretty sad, he struck me as a nikon guy who's been trying to keep an open mind.
gerald undone posted his test of z9 video capabilities, it's rather ironic that he found multiple instances of handling, weight, poor button layout and various menu issues, after we've heard years of claims about how good nikon "ergonomics" are... even thom hogan complained:
"We've got a lot of handling dissonance to talk about in my eventual review. Moving the PLAYBACK menu below the three primary ones we use makes sense, but not if you're using another Nikon body. Likewise, the playback button moving to the button quartet makes sense, but we again get dissonances when using multiple Nikon bodies... It just shows that Nikon didn't think through the original Z UX enough prior to launch, as we're seeing lots of variation as the models change.
The autofocus system seems not fully developed. As good as it isand it's really goodtrying to take control from the system isn't as straightforward as it needs to be." https://www.zsystemuser.com/z-mount-cameras/the-z9-blog/day-twelve--wrapping-up.html
gerald also mentioned 35/1.8z af issues: "...decent at best... that's probably the biggest hurdle with Nikon right now, is the inconsistency in lens performance, selection and functionality in the menu when it comes to focusing"
he was sold on 8kp60 tho, and upcoming firmware possibilities, i think that it outweighed most of the flaws in his mind.
p.20 #14 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
osv2 wrote:
steve deleted his own thread because his nikon base cried? that's pretty sad, he struck me as a nikon guy who's been trying to keep an open mind.
Someone PM'd me about this post and I wanted to clarify - I did not delete the thread (I thought is was a good discussion), the original poster did. In fact, no one reported it for complained about it. However, the OP has the right to delete the thread if he wants to.
For the record, I do enjoy shooting Nikon, Canon and Sony and I do use them all (although, more Nikon and Sony). They all have their good points
p.20 #15 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
That's a good one
saaketham wrote:
One main difference between the a1 and z9 .. the a1 is in stock
Jan 10, 2022 at 09:34 PM
osv2 Offline • • • • [X]
p.20 #16 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
Steve Perry wrote:
Someone PM'd me about this post and I wanted to clarify - I did not delete the thread (I thought is was a good discussion), the original poster did. In fact, no one reported it for complained about it. However, the OP has the right to delete the thread if he wants to.
For the record, I do enjoy shooting Nikon, Canon and Sony and I do use them all (although, more Nikon and Sony). They all have their good points
feel free to post it over here, we'd certainly like to hear it.
yeah 8kp60 with no overheating would be one very good point in favor of the z9, but there is so much b.s. flying around about this camera that it's hard to know what to believe... cined roasted the z9 for only having 6 stops of video d.r., then gave it milc of the year award anyway :-0
"We are getting 11.5 stops at SNR = 2 and 12.4 stops at SNR = 1. Unfortunately, it seems like the full-frame sensor is NOT properly downsampled for the 4K ProRes HQ mode. Definitely a lost chance for Nikon.
Other cameras like the Sony A1 or the Sony a7 IV are doing this 4K downsampling correctly (lab tests here and here) and hence get dynamic range results of about 12.8 stops at SNR = 2 and 14 stops at SNR = 1.
interesting response from nikon, they blamed it on prores raw, and the cheering section is hoping that an n-log gamma curve update will fix everything.
p.20 #19 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
stevekphotos wrote:
You know I just watched that, and reviewed the Flickr photos. The Nikon's are absent at the moment.
Nikon's auto focus is still trailing far behind Canon and Sony.
I noticed that too. Nikon wasn't as sticky as the A1 or the R3. It'll be interesting to see how much of that can be addressed in firmware.
We haven't seen a lot of AF firmware updates from Sony on the A1, either. At least not AFAIK. So it looks like Sony may have been taking a wait and see approach to see what Nikon is able to deliver with the Z9 before releasing firmware to improve its AF performance further.
This is likely why Nikon opted to go with the lower price point in order to leverage that as a pro over the other bodies, because if they had of come in at the same price point, people would have opted for the system that delivered the best performance when cost wasn't as much a factor as it is now (for some).
Jan 11, 2022 at 01:51 PM
stevekphotos Offline • • [X]
p.20 #20 · "Nikon Z9 vs Sony A1 The 10 main differences"
Elusivesouls wrote:
I noticed that too. Nikon wasn't as sticky as the A1 or the R3. It'll be interesting to see how much of that can be addressed in firmware.
We haven't seen a lot of AF firmware updates from Sony on the A1, either. At least not AFAIK. So it looks like Sony may have been taking a wait and see approach to see what Nikon is able to deliver with the Z9 before releasing firmware to improve its AF performance further
This is likely why Nikon opted to go with the lower price point in order to leverage that as a pro over the other bodies, because if they had of come in at the same price point, people would have opted for the system that delivered the best performance when cost wasn't as much a factor as it is now (for some)....Show more →
I'm curious why they don't have the Nikon photos on Flickr. I'm betting 3/4 of them are way off.
.
!
that's pretty sad, he struck me as a nikon guy who's been trying to keep an open mind.
