I think you're absolutely right regarding matching a profile for digital to a film that doesn't exist anymore. All we have is slides made with different emulsions of Kodachrome at different times, under different light, with different processing...
I made the mistake of posting a few examples on another forum and soon had all kinds of people who used to shoot Kodachrome back in the day ripping into them because they didn't match their memories.
Memories are unfortunately not a good measure of how things actually looked back then. Also, doesn't the dyes fade and the colors alter with pure age of the film?
rdeloe wrote:
Of course it can be the user's fault that results from a particular camera profile seem poor. If your monitor isn't calibrated, nothing is going to look right. If your monitor doesn't have the gamut to display the colours properly, you won't see what you're supposed to see.
I'm not suggesting your issue with these profiles is your monitor. It could easily be the profiles. Case in point is the Kodachrome profiles. I have Kodachrome slides in my collection. Reds have a distinctive signature, but it's not that much orange.
Red is VERY vibrant and has NO orange in my old Kodachrome 64 slides, it looks nothing like the example you posted.
For the A7III I bought the Fuji film and now look at black and white, I have looked at all examples of the monochrom cmos and ccd, find it difficult to make a choice .. are there black and white enthusiasts who can say something about this. Biggest differences?preference?
Arty73 wrote:
For the A7III I bought the Fuji film and now look at black and white, I have looked at all examples of the monochrom cmos and ccd, find it difficult to make a choice .. are there black and white enthusiasts who can say something about this. Biggest differences?preference?
I have the Monochrome CCD & CMOS emulations and the Smart pack (which contains four monochrome profiles). In order of usage (as a proxy for preference), I would rank them as 1) CCD; 2) Smart; 3) CMOS; mainly because I prefer the gentler rendition of the CCD profiles to that of the CMOS profiles and I also like the Monochrome Scientific profile in the Smart pack.
There's very little difference between the Monochrome profile in the Smart pack and Adobe Monochrome. Cobalt's Monochrome seems to pull it in a bit on both sides of the histogram. You could use either one of those and be happy.
I'm still looking for a use case for the other monochrome profiles in the Smart pack, and I can't help you with the CCD and CMOS packs (don't have them and likely won't get them).
genji wrote:
I have the Monochrome CCD & CMOS emulations and the Smart pack (which contains four monochrome profiles). In order of usage (as a proxy for preference), I would rank them as 1) CCD; 2) Smart; 3) CMOS; mainly because I prefer the gentler rendition of the CCD profiles to that of the CMOS profiles and I also like the Monochrome Scientific profile in the Smart pack.
Interestingly, is there a difference in treatment of the highlights of the
Monochrome Scientific profile in the Smart pack compared to the CCD & CMOS emulations?
rdeloe wrote:
There's very little difference between the Monochrome profile in the Smart pack and Adobe Monochrome. Cobalt's Monochrome seems to pull it in a bit on both sides of the histogram. You could use either one of those and be happy.
I'm still looking for a use case for the other monochrome profiles in the Smart pack, and I can't help you with the CCD and CMOS packs (don't have them and likely won't get them).
Is there any emulation you've tried that is difficult to achieve with Lightroom monochrom? Or does it save a lot of time with the emulations as a base. I am aware that everything has to do with personal preference and taste. But a good quality emulation can give a nice starting point.
Arty73 wrote:
Is there any emulation you've tried that is difficult to achieve with Lightroom monochrom? Or does it save a lot of time with the emulations as a base. I am aware that everything has to do with personal preference and taste. But a good quality emulation can give a nice starting point.
I mentioned this way back in this thread, but I'm a black and white photographer. https://www.robdeloephotography.com/ I've been exploring these Cobalt profiles for colour because I'm doing a bit of colour work too now and was curious about what's out there in terms of tools.
For black and white, I don't use any film emulations or presets. I'm a Fuji shooter but I don't even like the Fuji black and white film simulation (Acros and variants). I start from Adobe Monochrome and go from there. It really is a superb starting point.
I know lots of people like profiles and presets for black and white (e.g., Nik, SilverEffects). I don't, so I can't help you.
Arty73 wrote:
Is there any emulation you've tried that is difficult to achieve with Lightroom monochrom? Or does it save a lot of time with the emulations as a base. I am aware that everything has to do with personal preference and taste. But a good quality emulation can give a nice starting point.
In theory every preset can be completely replicated in Lightroom alone.
How quickly you can replicate that preset is a function of talent and time.
My understanding is that profiles cannot be as readily replicated. I am not sure that that is correct; maybe someone can weigh in.
They certainly can save a lot of time and can give you a "look" that you might not be aware of.
rdeloe wrote:
I mentioned this way back in this thread, but I'm a black and white photographer. https://www.robdeloephotography.com/ I've been exploring these Cobalt profiles for colour because I'm doing a bit of colour work too now and was curious about what's out there in terms of tools.
For black and white, I don't use any film emulations or presets. I'm a Fuji shooter but I don't even like the Fuji black and white film simulation (Acros and variants). I start from Adobe Monochrome and go from there. It really is a superb starting point.
I know lots of people like profiles and presets for black and white (e.g., Nik, SilverEffects). I don't, so I can't help you. ...Show more →
Thank you for the link of your website, really nice black&white work!
As DaveFP notes, a preset is just a handy way of replicating a bunch of things you can do in Lightroom. When I said I don't use presets, I meant I don't use other peoples' presets! I do make my own whenever I find myself doing the same things over and over.
A profile is a whole different thing. They only work with RAW data. Think of profiles as starting points that you can't change. Or more correctly, you can change the profile, but you can't change what the profile does.
"A profile is a set of instructions that is used to render a photograph, converting it from raw camera information into the colors and tones that we see.
- Every raw image must have a profile applied (and can only have one profile at a time).
- Profiles are nondestructive and can be changed at any time without any loss of quality.
-There are no 'right” or wrong' profiles: they’re like filling in a pie – some people will choose cherry and others prefer peach."
"Adobe Monochrome" is a profile. The way Julieanne described it when it was released a few years ago, "This profile slightly shifts colors as they are converted to grayscale – brightening the warmer colors and darkening the cooler colors. It also adds a small amount of contrast but allows lots of headroom for editing."
Here's where it gets a bit confusing: I'm a Fuji user so Adobe provides it's interpretations of Fuji's film simulations. These are called "camera profiles" in Adobe-speak. These are profiles just like "Adobe Monochrome" and "Adobe Color".
However, Cobalt's "film emulations" are a kind of hybrid. They are all based on one of Cobalt's profiles, and they behave like a profile in the sense that they provide a starting point. However, when you use a Cobalt film emulation you get an "amount" slider that is not available with profiles. Using that slider you can dial it back (all the way to the base Cobalt profile used), or you can punch it up to make the emulation's look more intense.
You can always tell what you're using by looking for the amount slider. If there's no amount slider, it's a "camera profile".
rdeloe wrote:
As DaveFP notes, a preset is just a handy way of replicating a bunch of things you can do in Lightroom. When I said I don't use presets, I meant I don't use other peoples' presets! I do make my own whenever I find myself doing the same things over and over.
A profile is a whole different thing. They only work with RAW data. Think of profiles as starting points that you can't change. Or more correctly, you can change the profile, but you can't change what the profile does.
"A profile is a set of instructions that is used to render a photograph, converting it from raw camera information into the colors and tones that we see.
- Every raw image must have a profile applied (and can only have one profile at a time).
- Profiles are nondestructive and can be changed at any time without any loss of quality.
-There are no 'right” or wrong' profiles: they’re like filling in a pie – some people will choose cherry and others prefer peach."
"Adobe Monochrome" is a profile. The way Julieanne described it when it was released a few years ago, "This profile slightly shifts colors as they are converted to grayscale – brightening the warmer colors and darkening the cooler colors. It also adds a small amount of contrast but allows lots of headroom for editing."
Here's where it gets a bit confusing: I'm a Fuji user so Adobe provides it's interpretations of Fuji's film simulations. These are called "camera profiles" in Adobe-speak. These are profiles just like "Adobe Monochrome" and "Adobe Color".
However, Cobalt's "film emulations" are a kind of hybrid. They are all based on one of Cobalt's profiles, and they behave like a profile in the sense that they provide a starting point. However, when you use a Cobalt film emulation you get an "amount" slider that is not available with profiles. Using that slider you can dial it back (all the way to the base Cobalt profile used), or you can punch it up to make the emulation's look more intense.
You can always tell what you're using by looking for the amount slider. If there's no amount slider, it's a "camera profile". ...Show more →
rdeloe wrote:
However, Cobalt's "film emulations" are a kind of hybrid. They are all based on one of Cobalt's profiles, and they behave like a profile in the sense that they provide a starting point. However, when you use a Cobalt film emulation you get an "amount" slider that is not available with profiles. Using that slider you can dial it back (all the way to the base Cobalt profile used), or you can punch it up to make the emulation's look more intense.
I do not own cobalt film emulations, but from what I am told they are 3D LUT's encapsulated in the Adobe Enhanced Profile XML format and they make them with 3DLUT creator.
Archive 2021 · Cobalt Profiles
Also, doesn't the dyes fade and the colors alter with pure age of the film? 
