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Archive 2021 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon

  
 
drimer
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p.7 #1 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon



timgangloff wrote:
The only catch, and it's a big catch for some, is the rolling shutter you get with the r5. For some, it's tolerable or a non-issue. For serious sports work or fast moving subjects, it's a huge issue. The cost of the A1 fixes that issue. That technology is apparently not cheap, as Canon could not do it at the r5 price point.


As an R5 user and sports shooter, I will add that it depends on the sport, your style of shooting, and the speed of the subject. R5 is a fantastic compromise in many regards. If you want 20FPS 45MP images (which with older teles is the only viable sports option for viewfinder refresh rates imo) with eye tracking around the frame, you have to consider some things.

Panning will skew backgrounds. Electronic lights on backgrounds can be blotchy and artificial-looking. VERY fast motion will warp and slightly pixelate the boundary of the object... think baseballs and bats at ~100 mph with a high angular velocity with respect to the camera. A soccer ball right as it’s kicked will likely look a little lopsided. Shooting volleyball later this week and expect some distortions on fast spikes. Slower sports I’ve seen fewer issues with subject warping—basketball and dive, for example.

That all said, the R5 lets me take shots that were impossible with my previous 5D4 and current 1Dx, especially for sports. If its downsides are acceptable to you, it’s capable of outstanding results. That said, and ignoring any landscape and travel use, I’d gladly trade my R5 for an R3 without knowing anything more about specs than is already announced, for sports and action purposes.

YMMV. A1 looks to be a superior camera for the Sony system, and targeted to anybody with a need or desire to have the best of the best (hence some people comparing it to the GFX 100S at the same price point). The R5 is Canon’s top of the line for anybody not needing 1Dx durability or 20FPS mechanical shutter minimal distortions. It also has some of the nicest 8k/4k available from any hybrid camera, which matters to some. The R3 will allegedly match 1Dx on durability, and despite Canon’s marketing it as between the 1Dx3 and the R5, I imagine it will be the true flagship in Canon land until they figure out something like a global shutter R1 to enable class-leading action performance. If R3 is priced below 1Dx3, I’d think larger size and OVF preference would be the only major reasons to buy what is almost unquestionably the best action DSLR ever created.

Excited to see what comes next!



Apr 26, 2021 at 04:08 PM
bobbytan
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p.7 #2 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


With the R5 I shoot mostly in the EFC or MS mode for bird photography. 10-12 fps is plenty fast. The e-shutter mode is okay for most situations but I don't need to shoot at 20 fps as culling (and storage) becomes a real problem. I believe the new R3 will be as good as or better than the A1 in terms of the rolling shutter, and most probably at a lower price point. The R3 is not for me though, as I have no interest in gripped bodies.

timgangloff wrote:
The only catch, and it's a big catch for some, is the rolling shutter you get with the r5. For some, it's tolerable or a non-issue. For serious sports work or fast moving subjects, it's a huge issue. The cost of the A1 fixes that issue. That technology is apparently not cheap, as Canon could not do it at the r5 price point.





Apr 26, 2021 at 05:09 PM
nicolachel
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p.7 #3 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


bobbytan wrote:
With the R5 I shoot mostly in the EFC or MS mode for bird photography. 10-12 fps is plenty fast. The e-shutter mode is okay for most situations but I don't need to shoot at 20 fps as culling (and storage) becomes a real problem. I believe the new R3 will be as good as or better than the A1 in terms of the rolling shutter, and most probably at a lower price point. The R3 is not for me though, as I have no interest in gripped bodies.



Sounds like R3 is destined to be a "terrible" deal as "10-12 fps is plenty fast, and culling (and storage) becomes a real problem when shoot at 20 fps" and stacked sensor/rolling shutter is not a meaningful improvement since "e-shutter mode is okay for most situations", etc, etc.

We should bring this oversight to Canon's attention at once so they can avoid releasing R3 and embarrassing themselves by attempting to sell something that is pretty much the same or materially worse than R5 at a higher asking price



May 03, 2021 at 03:57 AM
CW100
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p.7 #4 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon




Sounds like R3 is destined to be a "terrible" deal as "10-12 fps is plenty fast, and culling (and storage) becomes a real problem when shoot at 20 fps" and stacked sensor/rolling shutter is not a meaningful improvement since "e-shutter mode is okay for most situations", etc, etc.

We should bring this oversight to Canon's attention at once so they can avoid releasing R3 and embarrassing themselves by attempting to sell something that is pretty much the same or materially worse than R5 at a higher asking price


and the R5 is still "out of stock" at Adorama







May 03, 2021 at 07:22 AM
nycdarkness
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p.7 #5 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


I didn't read all of the comments. I am hobbyist. I have the entire RF L line up minus the 85 1.2. Glass is the only reason I would go to canon over sony. I also have an A1, a7Siii, and a7iiii ( 2 of which will go to marketplace soon). Given function wise the a1 and the r5 are the closest, given promotions, second hand market etc. The cost of the a1 + glass and r5 + native glass is priced about the same. I think some of the newer glass from Sony like the 50 1.2 is looking to balance things out a bit. I use both bodies with a grip and tbh it's about the same to me. The a7riv shape that is in the 7siii, a9ii, a1 are all quite good.

Color is subjective and easy to change, and unless you are talking 1dx bodies I don't feel the sony a1 is that less robust physically.



May 10, 2021 at 09:35 PM
lighthound
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p.7 #6 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


nycdarkness wrote:
Given function wise the a1 and the r5 are the closest, given promotions, second hand market etc. The cost of the a1 + glass and r5 + native glass is priced about the same.


First of all, the A1 is Sony's top of the line flagship, the R5 is Canon's 3rd from the top camera.
A sad day for Sony if people want to compare the two.

Secondly, just taking a quick look, the cost of an A1 + 100-400 is $ 9,000 The cost of an R5 + 100-500 is $6,600 which isn't even close in my book. There might be sales and promotions on the A1 already to boost their sales, idk, but I can assure you there are none on the R5 as it's such a hot seller nobody can keep them in stock.

One could pick up the above R5 combo and have $2400 to spend on a nice photo trip. And the best part is with the Canon combo you can see through the EVF with the sun to your back.



May 11, 2021 at 01:11 PM
Imagemaster
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p.7 #7 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


lighthound wrote:
......the R5 is Canon's 3rd from the top camera. ....


What are the AVAILABLE top two?



May 11, 2021 at 02:47 PM
lighthound
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p.7 #8 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


Imagemaster wrote:
What are the AVAILABLE top two?


Who said they were available? We already know they are in the pipeline and it was stated by Canon that the R3 is slotted between the R5 and their flagship body which is believed to be called the R1.



May 11, 2021 at 03:35 PM
arbitrage
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p.7 #9 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


lighthound wrote:
First of all, the A1 is Sony's top of the line flagship, the R5 is Canon's 3rd from the top camera.
A sad day for Sony if people want to compare the two.

Secondly, just taking a quick look, the cost of an A1 + 100-400 is $ 9,000 The cost of an R5 + 100-500 is $6,600 which isn't even close in my book. There might be sales and promotions on the A1 already to boost their sales, idk, but I can assure you there are none on the R5 as it's such a hot seller nobody can keep them
...Show more




May 11, 2021 at 06:59 PM
Imagemaster
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p.7 #10 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


lighthound wrote:
Who said they were available? We already know they are in the pipeline and it was stated by Canon that the R3 is slotted between the R5 and their flagship body which is believed to be called the R1.


Well some of us like to deal with the reality of what is available now, and not speculate about what is in the pipeline. Not only have you no experience with either of those 2 top pipeline-cameras, you can't even tell us the prices.



May 11, 2021 at 08:17 PM
lighthound
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p.7 #11 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


Imagemaster wrote:
Well some of us like to deal with the reality of what is available now, and not speculate about what is in the pipeline. Not only have you no experience with either of those 2 top pipeline-cameras, you can't even tell us the prices.


Kinda reaching out there a bit eh Tony boy? My reality is based and factual statements made by the manufacturer, not some internet clown that thrives on stirring shit up with whom ever gives him the time of day. Time for you to troll elsewhere.



May 11, 2021 at 08:55 PM
Imagemaster
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p.7 #12 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


lighthound wrote:
Kinda reaching out there a bit eh Tony boy? My reality is based and factual statements made by the manufacturer, not some internet clown that thrives on stirring shit up with whom ever gives him the time of day. Time for you to troll elsewhere.


Gee, sorry to upset you Davey boy. The reality is the OP asked about the R5 and R6, not a pipeline R1 or R3.

There must be a lot of trolls if that is what you label anyone who doesn’t agree with anything you say.

Luckily the HIDE ME works on both trolls and know-it-all’s. Try it. I did. Bye K-I-A.



May 11, 2021 at 09:56 PM
nycdarkness
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p.7 #13 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


lighthound wrote:
First of all, the A1 is Sony's top of the line flagship, the R5 is Canon's 3rd from the top camera.
A sad day for Sony if people want to compare the two.

Secondly, just taking a quick look, the cost of an A1 + 100-400 is $ 9,000 The cost of an R5 + 100-500 is $6,600 which isn't even close in my book. There might be sales and promotions on the A1 already to boost their sales, idk, but I can assure you there are none on the R5 as it's such a hot seller nobody can keep them
...Show more


I can buy the R5 and go pick it up in 30mins at BH for quite some time now. I have both systems, I've done the math. If you have a corp discount, edu discount combined with promos. GM lenses are extremely cheap. I picked up my 100-400GM for 2k, 200-600 for 1500 all from BH. This is before multiple lens rebates. Third party options on Sony also make the sony system cheaper for ranges that you don't need 30 fps. The a1 is overpriced a touch, and I expect the R3 and R1 to be priced pretty high as well. How much better the R3 and R1 will be compared to the R5 outside of build/ form factor has yet to be see as there is nothing but speculation on that front.



May 11, 2021 at 10:42 PM
swldstn
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p.7 #14 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


OK, I shoot both Canon and Sony. Shot Canon for 25 years but 7 years ago added Sony because Canon could not compete with the Nikon D800 and 36 Mpixels. So I bought an A7R to use for landscape with my adapted Canon glass to use along with my 5D III for events and 1DX for sports/wildlife. Have been using Sony ever since and currently using an A7RIV and A9. My two TS lenses were actually easier to focus and use with the EVF.
Now also have an R5 since getting back with Canon's EOS R at the end of 2019.

On native lenses right now, today, for 14, 20, 24, 35, 50, and 135 Sony has Canon beat IMHO. Faster AF with their linear motor technology and more compact with no loss of optical quality. Canon trinity of zooms at 15-355, 24-70, and 70-200 f/28L lenses are better.

Then there is the 28-70/2L. I have never used it but its really the same weight at a traditional 70-200/2.8 so they won me with the RF 70-200/2.8L IS but lost me with that one. No direct experience with the RF 100-500 but not convinced it offers more than the Sony 100-400 or 200-600. Will have to test it. At 400/2.8 and 600/4 I think it's a tie.

Both Cameras offer a lot I think and while you can prefer one system or the other and make reasons to justify your purchase ignoring one for the other is foolish. i.e I could sell my R5 and other Canon gear and save me $15,000 and put $8000 back in the bank after buying an A1 (and may do it unless Canon gets going on real RF primes other than 35/1.2) I'm thinking that chasing f/1.2 without learning how to make lighter primes like Sony has is not in their best inters. A 35/1.4 should be 550gm and not 950gm to be really useful in the street. The Canon RF 135mm will probably be 1400 gm instead of 950 gm as well. So far, with the exception of the RF 70-200/2.8L IS, Canon's glass is about 20-25% heavier than Sony's equivalent. This may be fine for those interested in the very best optical quality but is it really worth it? Once the big spenders have bought how do you plan to attract the next level who will by Sigma or Tamron since you are too expensive. The cost/quality of Sony's 24/1.4, 35/1.4, 50/1.2, and 135/1.8 should is a lesson Canon should learn from.



May 14, 2021 at 07:53 PM
Imagemaster
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p.7 #15 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


nicolachel wrote:
Sounds like R3 is destined to be a "terrible" deal as "10-12 fps is plenty fast, and culling (and storage) becomes a real problem when shoot at 20 fps" and stacked sensor/rolling shutter is not a meaningful improvement since "e-shutter mode is okay for most situations", etc, etc.

We should bring this oversight to Canon's attention at once so they can avoid releasing R3 and embarrassing themselves by attempting to sell something that is pretty much the same or materially worse than R5 at a higher asking price


Hey, some members put down any camera that they don't happen to own. As if others care.



May 14, 2021 at 09:19 PM
httivals
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p.7 #16 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


No doubt that the Canon RF lenses are not as lightweight as the equivalent lenses for the Sony E mount. OTOH, the Canon R5 has vastly better image stabilization than the Sony bodies. Depends what's more important to you.

The lighweight Canon RF primes all appear to have compromises, although the 35mm f1.8 is very good and has lens IS. It may not be as well built (it seems a bit cheap; I prefer the build of the EF 35mm f2IS, but it becomes too big and heavy with an adapter), but on balance I think I prefer the Canon RF 35mm f1.8 to the Sony 35mm f1.8 (although for a very compact 35mm prime, I prefer the Sony ZA pancake to both). Also, as you point out, the Canon 70-200mm RF zooms are exceptional, compact, and lightweight - I opted for the f4 RF zoom.

For my uses, the combined Canon EF and RF lenses better meet my needs than does Sony. I'll probably keep an A7RIV to use with a few of the Sony primes, but I'd rather have a Canon 15-35 RF and Canon 70-200mm F4, along with the R5 and its fantastic image stabilization than the Sony equivalents. I love my Sony 16-35mm GM, but it doesn't have image stabilization and there isn't a good (for me) 70-200mm or 70-300mm Sony lens to go with it. The Canon EF 70-300mm L with an adapter is another fantastic compact, high quality, relatively light zoom option for the R5. I found it frustrating to use with an adapter on the A7RIV.

I wish the RF 15-35mm were a bit lighter, but it has benefits over the 16-35mm GM - image stabilization and 15mm at the wide end. I can also delude myself to thinking that heavier means better built and will last longer, although that's pure speculation.

For me the L zooms are more important than the GM primes, although the GM primes are exceptional. I'd also rather spend $4K each on two R5 bodies than $6,500 each on two A1 bodies (I always like two of the same identical bodies), but it's really the lenses that make the difference to me.

swldstn wrote:
OK, I shoot both Canon and Sony. Shot Canon for 25 years but 7 years ago added Sony because Canon could not compete with the Nikon D800 and 36 Mpixels. So I bought an A7R to use for landscape with my adapted Canon glass to use along with my 5D III for events and 1DX for sports/wildlife. Have been using Sony ever since and currently using an A7RIV and A9. My two TS lenses were actually easier to focus and use with the EVF.
Now also have an R5 since getting back with Canon's EOS R at the end of 2019.

On
...Show more



Edited on May 15, 2021 at 08:46 AM · View previous versions



May 14, 2021 at 11:22 PM
swldstn
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p.7 #17 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


httivals wrote:
No doubt that the Canon RF lenses are not as lightweight as the equivalent lenses for the Sony E mount. OTOH, the Canon R5 has vastly better image stabilization than the Sony bodies. Depends what's more important to you.

The lighweight Canon RF primes all appear to have compromises, although the 35mm f1.8 is very good and has lens IS. It may not be as well built (it seems a bit cheap; I prefer the build of the EF 35mm f2IS, but it becomes too big and heavy with an adapter), but on balance I think I prefer the Canon RF
...Show more

I agree a lot with what you say. The capability and the price of the R5 is much more attractive to me than the A1 and when I shoot events agree that to identical bodies are preferable. I hope that Sony create a 36-45 Mpixel body optimized as an all arounder. Also the Canon trinity for me is a great set of lenses and I also adapted a EF 70-300L to my R5. Used to have it when it first came out and rebought a used copy to adapt to RF cameras before I bought the 70-200mm 2.8L IS. Both really take up about the same amount of room in my Canon kit bag so I take one or the other depending on what I plan to shoot. Having the 15-35 and 24-70 with IS is very nice.

To me primes are equally as important for when I am out shooting for my own enjoyment or shooting portraits of one kind or another and the size and weight of the 85/1.2L, 50/1.2L, and probably 35/1.2L ae just heavier that I would like. I was all set to try the Canon 50/1.2L because I did own both the EF 50/1.2L and EF 85/1.2L II but the new versions are just big. Would have owned it if Sony had announced their FE 50/1.2 GM a month later. Instead to the plunge on that and now have it in my hand.

Just a note, I did buy a used EF 85/1.4L IS to adapt before the R5 was anounced because I wasn't convince it was worth spending $2600 on the RF for a camera system based on the EOS R. Also almost bought a EF 35/1,4L II as well but decided it was too big. The Sony FE 35/1.4 GM proved to make that a good decision.

For now I will keep a foot in both camps but it will be interetign to see what happens over the next year. Will Canon push for us to buy a R3 at $6000-$7000 or will Sony introduce a copy at 36-45 Mpixels to complete more directly with the R5? What will the A7 IV be.

Final thought, Sony's small FF A7C is a camera I might add use for plane travel (if I ever do it again). Currently my "small" system is an X-T4 with their small and compact APS-C XF lens family. There the size of the lenses are great.



May 15, 2021 at 07:39 AM
httivals
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p.7 #18 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


SWLDSTN: For me a critical difference between Canon and Sony is the image stabilization of the Canon R5 and either EF or RF lenses. It means when I travel I don't need a tripod for dawn/sunrise or sunset images and can instead take a monopod. For me, travel is a big part of photography. Being there with my camera is more important than having a prime that gives marginally better image quality when stopped down to f8 or f11. I've found I almost never use primes when I travel although I usually bring one or two with me. And being there with a monopod (or nothing) instead of a tripod makes a huge difference. . . . Your small system is an X-T4 with their small compact lenses. My small system is an Oly OM1 Mk III with only one lens - the 12-100mm IS f4 - the best image stabilization combo out there, I believe. Shows our different emphases.

I'd rather have the smaller GM f1.4 primes when I'm not traveling. But the reality is that given that I'm not a professional, I rarely use them and I rarely use them wide open. I owned the 24mm GM for about 2 years and recently sold it. Fantastic lens. But I didn't use it all that much. For me, the Canon EF 24mm f2.8 IS with the Canon R5 is a great alternative, although the optical quality isn't as good. Eye AF is more accurate on the EF 24mm with the R5 than the 24mm GM with the Sony A7RIV, and higher ISO (think 6400) is about the same on the R5 and the A7RIV (I use DXO prime 4 with high ISO and it's superlative).



May 15, 2021 at 09:02 AM
swldstn
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p.7 #19 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


httivals wrote:
SWLDSTN: For me a critical difference between Canon and Sony is the image stabilization of the Canon R5 and either EF or RF lenses. It means when I travel I don't need a tripod for dawn/sunrise or sunset images and can instead take a monopod. For me, travel is a big part of photography. Being there with my camera is more important than having a prime that gives marginally better image quality when stopped down to f8 or f11. I've found I almost never use primes when I travel although I usually bring one or two with me. And being
...Show more

Have never shot Olympus or any other m4/3. I know they have a lot of fans. Came from film into APS-C Canon after shooting an EOS based film camera. Fuji was my first mirrorless step and have always liked their approach and support.



May 17, 2021 at 02:36 AM
CW100
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p.7 #20 · Debating switching from Sony to Canon


httivals wrote:
No doubt that the Canon RF lenses are not as lightweight as the equivalent lenses for the Sony E mount. OTOH, the Canon R5 has vastly better image stabilization than the Sony bodies. Depends what's more important to you.

The lighweight Canon RF primes all appear to have compromises, although the 35mm f1.8 is very good and has lens IS. It may not be as well built (it seems a bit cheap; I prefer the build of the EF 35mm f2IS, but it becomes too big and heavy with an adapter), but on balance I think I prefer the Canon RF
...Show more


actually Canon RF lenses are lighter than the equivalent Sony E mount lenses





May 17, 2021 at 05:43 AM
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