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Archive 2021 · Official: Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar announced!

  
 
Steve Spencer
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p.32 #1 · Official: Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar announced!


rscheffler wrote:
Hi Steve - thanks for suggesting the CV 35/2.5. I must have totally missed Fred's tests. TBH, I disregarded this lens when I got into Leica M and started with a few Zeiss ZM and Voigtlander lenses back around 10 years ago. At that time I wasn't overly impressed with the Voigtlander lenses I tried and preferred the Zeiss ZM rendering. Maybe I should revisit it. I had the ZM35/2.8 for many years as my primary walk around 35 and was generally happy with it but was somewhat annoyed with its edge color shift tendencies on the M9.

I'll keep you
...Show more

It is interesting how we all make slightly different choices. I was going to go with the CV 35 f/2 APO and CV 35 f/1.2 III like highdesertmesa, and I think that is a solid choice, but thinking about it more I am getting the Leica M10 for the ability to make it a small kit, so I now think I will probably go with the CV 35 f/2.5 when I want a really small kit and the CV 35 f/1.7 when I expect I will want lower light performance.

For my super light travel kit I will probably go with the M10, 21 f/3.4 SEM, CV 35 f/2.5 and Leica M 75 f/2.4, which I think will make a very capable kit that is just less than 1,400g, when I expect really low light I will in most instances leave the 21 f/3.4 SEM at home and go with the CV 35 f/1.7 and CV 75 f/1.5 that gives me an even lighter two lens kit at just less than 1,250g, that I think will be great for street shooting from around dusk.

When I am actually traveling to places I don't know, I will probably take a more versatile kit, CV 15 f/4.5 III, 21 f/3.4 SEM, 28 f/2 Asph, CV 50 f/2 APO, and 90 f/4 macro. Even that five lens kit in less than 2,000g.

Thank you and all the others who have shared your experiences with these lenses it has been very helpful.



Apr 06, 2021 at 05:30 PM
rscheffler
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p.32 #2 · Official: Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar announced!


FWIW, I've found the 21 SEM to be usable in lowlight situations. Since it's an UWA, you can either handhold it at lower shutter speeds, or prop the camera against something for more stability and get away with it at 24MP. Of course that assumes subject movement won't be a factor. IBIS would extend usability even further, but who knows if we'll ever see that in an M camera (I would not be against it).


Apr 07, 2021 at 12:28 AM
rscheffler
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p.32 #3 · Official: Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar announced!


genji wrote:
Ron’s post has reminded me how rarely ergonomics/haptics enter into comparative discussions about lens performance, which are overwhelmingly dominated by concerns about sharpness, rendering, and aberrations. Is it that ergonomics can’t be quantified in the way that these other qualities can and are therefore far more subjective? I could never be a happy VM 35/1.7 user because I had the similarly styled VM 50/1.5, whose harsh serrated focusing ring negated (for me) all its positive qualities. Similarly, after an initial burst of enthusiasm, I soon came to hate the bulbous monstrosity of the VM 75/1.5, despite its optical excellence.

I have
...Show more

Girth of the 50/1.2 has kept me from getting it, though it might optically outperform my 50 Lux ASPH (just the lowly silver finish - I'd love to try the BC version). I agree, the 50 Lux ASPH size is about right on an M camera. Smaller is better, sure. Yeah, I don't like the 35/1.7 and VM50/1.5 v1 design and ergos. But I've tolerated the 35 because it meets my optical expectations. I'm sure the 35 APO will exceed those, but it's even bigger/longer than the 1.7 (which is already a long M-mount 35) and given I actually use the optical viewfinder, am not so keen on how much more it will block.

As suggested by David, ergonomics can be quantified by physical dimensions, materials, finishes, etc., but how those all combine will tick the boxes differently for each of us. IMO this is one of those 'Leica experience' situations - a term that can gloss over a lot of details and cause eyes to roll. It's also very difficult to anticipate via on-paper specs. It's really a matter of having to try it, and in Leica's case, taking a high-priced leap of faith that it will meet or exceed your expectations.

Leica's ergos aren't perfect either, or at least not always consistently great. I.e. focusing and aperture rings on the 21 & 24 Luxes are too similar in feel and too close together, particularly in cold weather shooting with gloves. I'm not a fan of the 50 Lux ASPH slide out hood that does not lock solidly into position, whether extended or retracted. When they redesigned the 90/4 Macro, which was great, they widened the front of the lens where the aperture ring is. As a result, the original clip-on hood no longer reverses and totally loses the original design's compactness when retracted. But Voigtander (Cosina)... they've been all over the map with the designs/ergonomics of their lenses. I can kind of appreciate why they do this, but I'd appreciate it even more if they would just standardize on one great VM family design language (and lose the annoying chrome filter/hood bayonet ring).



Apr 07, 2021 at 12:51 AM
genji
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p.32 #4 · Official: Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar announced!


rscheffler wrote:
FWIW, I've found the 21 SEM to be usable in lowlight situations. Since it's an UWA, you can either handhold it at lower shutter speeds, or prop the camera against something for more stability and get away with it at 24MP. Of course that assumes subject movement won't be a factor. IBIS would extend usability even further, but who knows if we'll ever see that in an M camera (I would not be against it).


I hope they make an M-mount body based on the Q with an EVF (no rangefinder) and IBIS. No AF of course.



Apr 07, 2021 at 12:53 AM
rscheffler
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p.32 #5 · Official: Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar announced!


gyoung143 wrote:
Sorry to see those 'modern' and pretty useless DoF scales 🤔

Gerry


I wonder though how useful the DoF scales really are? Are they based on the analog math that set the scales to provide acceptable sharpness in an 8x10" print? If you're shooting with a 60MP sensor and viewing images much larger, IMO the scales are useless if you're after setting hyperfocal distance, etc. But I guess they could still be useful if guesstimating focusing distance without having to confirm it in the viewfinder.

I found it interesting that the E mount version appear to have a 'compressed' focusing scale, probably to accommodate closer focusing while keeping a relatively fast focus throw. The M mount version's focusing scale appears not to be quite as compressed/fast.

Here are a couple photos from back on page 3 of this thread:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/ufiles/84/2116684.png
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/ufiles/86/2116686.png

The M version's DoF scale definitely looks less 'squashed.'

highdesertmesa wrote:
The size differences between the f/1.2 vs APO f/2 versions of the CVs don't really sway me either way. If anything, I prefer the shorter length of the f/1.2 lenses as the width doesn't bother me. After using large lenses for the GFX and Canon R5, it makes these CVs feel like miniature spy camera lenses by comparison


I'm curious if you've tried any of your M lenses on the Canon R5? Particularly the APOs. Canon is my other system and I'll eventually be transitioning to their mirrorless bodies. It would be good to know what, if any, sensor stack induced optical performance changes are noticeable compared to the M10-R.



Apr 07, 2021 at 01:19 AM
gyoung143
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p.32 #6 · Official: Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar announced!



rscheffler wrote:
I wonder though how useful the DoF scales really are? Are they based on the analog math that set the scales to provide acceptable sharpness in an 8x10" print? If you're shooting with a 60MP sensor and viewing images much larger, IMO the scales are useless if you're after setting hyperfocal distance, etc. But I guess they could still be useful if guesstimating focusing distance without having to confirm it in the viewfinder.

I found it interesting that the E mount version appear to have a 'compressed' focusing scale, probably to accommodate closer focusing while keeping a relatively fast focus throw.
...Show more
The theory behind the 'illusion' that is DoF hasn't changed and is to do with perception rather than close scrutiny. It assumes a 'normal viewing distance' which increases with print size, and will not apply if you peer closely at a print, or an image at 100% on a monitor. It wasnt changed if I used a Summicron and Pan F rather than a Domiplan and Tri X! Always to be used with caution though, I usually allow at least one more stop of latitude.
On my Fujis I can set the traditional scales or some based on a smaller CoC to cope with closer scrutiny.
Without DoF then landscape with foreground interest becomes impossible. The M version looks useable. Presumably it has a longer 'throw' on the focussing rather than a different Circle of Confusion.

Gerry



Apr 07, 2021 at 02:41 AM
panos.v
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p.32 #7 · Official: Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar announced!


rscheffler wrote:
But Voigtander (Cosina)... they've been all over the map with the designs/ergonomics of their lenses. I can kind of appreciate why they do this, but I'd appreciate it even more if they would just standardize on one great VM family design language (and lose the annoying chrome filter/hood bayonet ring).


Well said about ergonomics. I think in M mount the only lenses that have a consistent look and layout across the entire line are Zeiss. The entire range is basically the same body in different sizes. CV stuff comes in vintage look or modern look or silly look some times with aperture ears or maybe a ring, maybe a focusing tab or knob or ring or this or that. Leica is mostly consistent though if you look at the range there are various deviations (and that's not just the special editions).



Apr 07, 2021 at 02:59 AM
motorhead9999
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p.32 #8 · Official: Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar announced!


As much as Leica talk can be fun, do we have any updates on when the Sony version is going to be out, or at least available to reviewers to give their thoughts? I'm definitely more interested in the Sony mount version, as I'm trying to decide between this, and the new GM.


Apr 07, 2021 at 06:14 PM
tsdevine
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p.32 #9 · Official: Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar announced!



Got my tracking number from CameraQuest for the E mount version, shipping tomorrow for Saturday delivery (hopefully).

-Tim



Apr 07, 2021 at 06:14 PM
rji2goleez
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p.32 #10 · Official: Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar announced!




tsdevine wrote:
Got my tracking number from CameraQuest for the E mount version, shipping tomorrow for Saturday delivery (hopefully).

-Tim


Me too!!!



Apr 07, 2021 at 06:22 PM
Chris VenHaus
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p.32 #11 · Official: Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar announced!


Same here. With any luck, I'll have mine by Saturday :-)


Apr 07, 2021 at 07:50 PM
Juha Kannisto
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p.32 #12 · Official: Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar announced!


Mine's also on the way and will arrive on Friday, but I will not have much time to use it before Saturday as Friday will be very busy...


Apr 08, 2021 at 09:00 AM
tsdevine
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p.32 #13 · Official: Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar announced!



Maybe I'll be surprised, but I'm thinking more and more I won't see it until Monday. With some of the changes at the USPS and shipping from CA to PA, I'm trying not to get my hope up too high that it comes Saturday.

Juha Kannisto wrote:
Mine's also on the way and will arrive on Friday, but I will not have much time to use it before Saturday as Friday will be very busy...





Apr 08, 2021 at 09:05 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.32 #14 · Official: Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar announced!


Received both Voigtlander 35/2 APO M and E-mount lenses today. Took them out of the box and went for lunch with the family.
Here are my first snaps:





























Apr 08, 2021 at 10:20 AM
zugzwang2
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p.32 #15 · Official: Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar announced!


I know that the M-mount version is not supposed to be as good on a Sony as the E-mount lens--but just how different are they, Fred? I'd be interested in the M lens if it is merely excellent rather than great on a Sony. (Yeah, performance in the corners is not my paramount concern.)


Apr 08, 2021 at 11:02 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.32 #16 · Official: Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar announced!


zugzwang2 wrote:
I know that the M-mount version is not supposed to be as good on a Sony as the E-mount lens--but just how different are they, Fred? I'd be interested in the M lens if it is merely excellent rather than great on a Sony. (Yeah, performance in the corners is not my paramount concern.)


The CV 50/2 APO M-mount performs poorly at wide apertures on the Sony. I have not yet tested the CV 35/2 APO M-mount on the Sony, so I can say it follows the same pattern.
Even stoped down, the 50/2 APO M does not match the E-mount's performance off-axis. (Both lenses on Sony)



Apr 08, 2021 at 11:08 AM
motorhead9999
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p.32 #17 · Official: Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar announced!



Awesome. Looking forward to your review, especially how it compares to the new 35mm GM.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Received both Voigtlander 35/2 APO M and E-mount lenses today. Took them out of the box and went for lunch with the family.
Here are my first snaps:





Apr 08, 2021 at 02:30 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.32 #18 · Official: Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar announced!


motorhead9999 wrote:
Awesome. Looking forward to your review, especially how it compares to the new 35mm GM.



I will be comparing it to the 35/1.4 GM and Sigma 35/2 DG DN.



Apr 08, 2021 at 02:39 PM
SpecFoto
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p.32 #19 · Official: Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar announced!


Fred Miranda wrote:
Received both Voigtlander 35/2 APO M and E-mount lenses today. Took them out of the box and went for lunch with the family.
Here are my first snaps:



Loving the smaller size of this new E mount lens in the comparison shot of the E and M mount versions and the rendering in the 3 family portraits is great. It looks so good mounted on the A7RIV, just a bit over 1" longer than my 35mm f2.8 ZA with the same 49mm filter size. This lens seems it could do double duty and replace the ZA and the 35mm GM I have on order, where with the GM I planned on keeping the ZA for when I wanted to go really small.....decisions, decisions,




Apr 08, 2021 at 04:56 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.32 #20 · Official: Voigtlander 35mm f/2 APO-Lanthar announced!


Fred Miranda wrote:
The CV 50/2 APO M-mount performs poorly at wide apertures on the Sony. I have not yet tested the CV 35/2 APO M-mount on the Sony, so I can say it follows the same pattern.
Even stoped down, the 50/2 APO M does not match the E-mount's performance off-axis. (Both lenses on Sony)


Continuing my thoughts from the post above.
I've just tested the E-mount vs M-mount on the A7R IV. Just like with the Voigtlander 50/2 APO mount versions, the 35/2 APO M-mount does not perform well on the Sony sensor. Wide open to about f/4, the mid and corners are poor, at f/5.6 it's good and at f/8 it's almost as good as the E-mount (but not quite). For those shooting landscapes at f/11, both E-mount and M-mount should be comparable but if I were shooting at wider apertures, I would stick to the E-mount on the Sony.

BTW: Both E-mount and M-mount perform identically at center (infinity) on the A7R IV.



Apr 08, 2021 at 07:12 PM
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