p.39 #1 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I know I'm harping on the viewfinder, but I just checked and yes: it's the same viewfinder optics as on the tiny pop-up EVF on the RX100 series camera. That is a SMALL EVF. That instantly kills this as an option for me at any time, even used.
p.39 #2 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
joychris wrote:
IMO the competition is doing that for them, the introductory price for the R6 and S1 is $2500. Nikon went lower with the Z6 at $2000, but it had issues on release including the odd decision to use a single XQD card. All of those mounts combined don't have the lenses we have in E-mount or the robust 3rd party support.
Remember, the S1 was massively upscale on the body (by far the highest spec 24MP body in terms of EVF, build, video, etc at release) and the R6 is basically a 1DXIII in a cheaper body. Both brought some real big guns to get that $2500 pricepoint.
Nikon's Z6 is a good body, badly marketed. Not quite the A7III killer Nikon had hoped, but pretty comparable in many regards and it trades better video for worse AF-C while delivering better build & EVF and wildly better card performance.
The a74 is probably going to hit $2300 or $2400 and not be as down spec as the a73/a7c. I'm guessing the flippy screen (yay!) new processor, menus, a new sensor that pushes it over 30mp, more PDAF points, and the better EVF from the a7r3, but not the really good ones from the a7r4 and a7s3. Video goes to 4k60p and finally 10-bit, but fewer options compared to the a7s3 and no 4k120 or HD 240. Combine that with the UHS-II/Type A card slots and the price increase would be justified based on the competition.
Though I will say I thought the a7s3 was going to be a little more expensive than $3500 given what it offers compared to Sony's cine line and others like the S1H or the GH5s.
Sony needs to remain somewhat aggressive on price to maintain share and the $2000 pricepoint is an important one in the market. Sony was actually the first brand to break into that pricepoint with FF (back with the A850) and the A7c is not the body to maintain it. That should be the A7IV as the A7III moves downmarket once its successor is launched.
Canon in particular is aggressively trying to grow their mirrorless market (Nikon would love to, but needs to hire a marketing department that isn't vacationing in 1999). All the big brands also want to maintain profitability by increasing margin as fast as volume is dropping. That's a bad choice short term as they need to build (or in Sony's case maintain) as much volume as they can to get through the rest of the DSLR to Mirrorless transition over the next ~2 years. None can afford to lose money, but they need marketshare to build ecosystem so they can come out of the major changes in the market in a good position and only Sony is really in a position to do that via pricing.
Nikon is failing spectacularly here, with Z simply not moving despite being well engineered bodies due to a series of marketing failures that has plagued them ever since the D5/D850/D500 launch (that was the last good launch for Nikon)
p.39 #3 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Jman13 wrote:
I know I'm harping on the viewfinder, but I just checked and yes: it's the same viewfinder optics as on the tiny pop-up EVF on the RX100 series camera. That is a SMALL EVF. That instantly kills this as an option for me at any time, even used.
Ouch that is way to small for me too. I like it though but if I have to struggle than it won’t work. Not sure I can retrain myself for fast work with a LCD. I think that with a MF lens as well. I’ll try it in a store at some point.
p.39 #4 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
I loved using the NEX-7, the a6000, and the a6500 before I went full frame with 7 series. So, I am pretty excited about this camera for travel, shooting around family, street shooting, and walking around.
For my uses, the small EVF and other changes from the large bodies are very minor issues. The AF improvements from the A73, making the A7C the best focusing stills-oriented camera after the A9, are a bonus that is more important for me and the way I like to shoot. Resolution aside, the A7C can produce the best overall image quality of any Sony camera body, matching the A73 and possibly exceeding it via processing improvements.
Full frame in a small, light body is what the NEX-7 was always promised and this is finally it.
p.39 #6 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
chiron wrote:
I loved using the NEX-7, the a6000, and the a6500 before I went full frame with 7 series. So, I am pretty excited about this camera for travel, shooting around family, street shooting, and walking around.
For my uses, the small EVF and other changes from the large bodies are very minor issues. The AF improvements from the A73, making the A7C the best focusing stills-oriented camera after the A9, are a bonus that is more important for me and the way I like to shoot. Resolution aside, the A7C can produce the best overall image quality of any Sony camera body, matching the A73 and possibly exceeding it via processing improvements.
Full frame in a small, light body is what the NEX-7 was always promised and this is finally it. ...Show more →
I get the casual stuff that it could be useful but like the RX-1 whatever it’s called it simply became unusable for just everyday flash work. Not the same issue here but I’m not sure we could push this hard enough to be even Uncle Bob at a wedding if you know what I mean. I’m worried even as a backup and travel primary is this enough camera for us. We are not soccer moms here but a talented group with skills. My question is it enough for us . Not that I’m getting rid of my A7rIV but could this cam do enough to actually go out on a date with it.
That maybe a good thread topic. Is it enough or Will it leave you hanging
p.39 #7 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
The other thing is yes for the younger crowd maybe more used to working with LCD but us old farts run for the hills with it. I have to hold these LCD cams about 2 feet away just to see them.
Case in point. I have been shooting a firearm a lot lately as it’s fun for me but if I’m just using the mechanical sight it’s like 3 cotton balls On the gun. It’s too close and my progressive glasses do not help enough to see near and far. But a red dot on target is much better. Kind of the same issue here not sure I could refocus that fast from LCD to subject. Does that make sense
p.39 #8 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
mawz wrote:
Remember, the S1 was massively upscale on the body (by far the highest spec 24MP body in terms of EVF, build, video, etc at release) and the R6 is basically a 1DXIII in a cheaper body. Both brought some real big guns to get that $2500 pricepoint.
Nikon's Z6 is a good body, badly marketed. Not quite the A7III killer Nikon had hoped, but pretty comparable in many regards and it trades better video for worse AF-C while delivering better build & EVF and wildly better card performance.
Sony needs to remain somewhat aggressive on price to maintain share and the $2000 pricepoint is an important one in the market. Sony was actually the first brand to break into that pricepoint with FF (back with the A850) and the A7c is not the body to maintain it. That should be the A7IV as the A7III moves downmarket once its successor is launched.
Canon in particular is aggressively trying to grow their mirrorless market (Nikon would love to, but needs to hire a marketing department that isn't vacationing in 1999). All the big brands also want to maintain profitability by increasing margin as fast as volume is dropping. That's a bad choice short term as they need to build (or in Sony's case maintain) as much volume as they can to get through the rest of the DSLR to Mirrorless transition over the next ~2 years. None can afford to lose money, but they need marketshare to build ecosystem so they can come out of the major changes in the market in a good position and only Sony is really in a position to do that via pricing.
Nikon is failing spectacularly here, with Z simply not moving despite being well engineered bodies due to a series of marketing failures that has plagued them ever since the D5/D850/D500 launch (that was the last good launch for Nikon)...Show more →
I agree, I can't see them pulling a $2500 a7IV, now, the gap would be too great from the 7III at $1700 and a7c $1800. at $2500 you'll be so close to the RIV and way past the RIII pricing for the next year, reminding that they still seem to be stuck with video performance on 24mp cameras, they are either unwilling to bring good performance or struggling hard to contain overheating especially since they seem to be locked in going away with the 30min limit
p.39 #9 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
realVivek wrote:
mawz, IMHO, if the Z6/7 had come with SD cards, they would have been more popular. The Z5 does not cut it with its older sensor and it is too late.
I agree that the Z6 is a great camera but for the XQD fiasco.
Chiron, Sorry. This is not “it”.
Maybe not "it "for you, but pending reviews and an early shake out, I am certain that I will get one.
p.39 #10 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Jman13 wrote:
I know I'm harping on the viewfinder, but I just checked and yes: it's the same viewfinder optics as on the tiny pop-up EVF on the RX100 series camera. That is a SMALL EVF. That instantly kills this as an option for me at any time, even used.
Wow! Yea that just killed my gas. Was tempted but the EVF is important to me as I rarely use the rear LCD. Guess I just saved 1800.00 bucks.
p.39 #13 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
It's a parts bin camera. Asking price is way too much. It's should have been a $1200 max. compete with the Canon RP. At $1,800 you are better off buying the A7III
p.39 #14 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
esanchez wrote:
It's a parts bin camera. Asking price is way too much. It's should have been a $1200 max. compete with the Canon RP. At $1,800 you are better off buying the A7III
I've never been interested in the a7III tbh. Too big for a casual cam, and for serious shooting, I prefer higher resolution bodies for headroom to crop.
p.39 #15 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Old menu is an instant no. That is total BS that they can’t port over the touch menus, don’t buy the processor argument one bit. 1800 for a watered down A7iii is absurd. The 28-60 is trash, much rather have the Panasonic 20-60 or Nikon 24-50. This camera is in the same league as the EOS-RP with price tag way out of wack. A hodgepodge of spare parts.
p.39 #16 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Depends on priorities. The older sensor is slightly better than the Z6 up to ISO800 and slightly worse above. It's not BSI, but it's not the old A7/A7II sensor either.
Agree this A7C is lacking though. If it's good for someone great, but a disappointing direction IMO.
realVivek wrote:
mawz, IMHO, if the Z6/7 had come with SD cards, they would have been more popular. The Z5 does not cut it with its older sensor and it is too late.
I agree that the Z6 is a great camera but for the XQD fiasco.
p.39 #17 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Even though I find A7c is way overpriced for what it is, for me it is not about the price. I don't buy this camera even for $1000 as I find its UI is severely damaged. Here is perhaps the root of the problem when manufacturers go for capturing headlines instead of offering a model that is not seriously lacking in a way or the other. Canon went for the headline of the first mirrorless still camera to record in 8K. It certainly created a hype but later backlashed when it was revealed the camera seriously overheats. If one uses it mainly for stills, its major shortcoming doesn't come across as a serious problem. It is debatable if Canon's marketing trick did work or not.
Similarly, Sony went for the marketing headline of being the 'smallest (lightest) full frame camera' though in this process they had to cut off on buttons, dials, etc. to make sure it is lighter than all other cameras even if by a slight margin. After-all they believed the headline will make many people to buy the camera regardless of serious flaws in its user interface. Here I am not talking about those consumers who consciously make a decision and choose this camera for its size and weight even though they are aware of the drawbacks. They just don't care enough. I am talking about consumers who aren't familiar with the Sony system by personal experience and don't roam online forums to know what Sony has done to make this camera as light and small as possible.
If Sony had chosen to include the customized buttons, the joystick, a complete touch interface and a better evf, the camera perhaps had been a little bit heavier losing the crown of being the smallest and lightest of all. Would it have sold in more units in that case? I feel like it would though I have no proof.
On another note, pricing this severely trimmed model at $1800 will justify pricing the upcoming A7 iv at $2500 or higher because it brings back all those missing buttons and dial plus a better evf and a thorough touch interface. Maybe that's the main Sony had severely cut off things from A7c!
p.39 #18 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
Alex W wrote:
Wow! Yea that just killed my gas. Was tempted but the EVF is important to me as I rarely use the rear LCD. Guess I just saved 1800.00 bucks.
Agree and thanks Jordan for bringing it up. I was looking at it for a long time while espresso was brewing and shaking my head.
Lol
p.39 #19 · Pre-order: Sony A7C Compact Full Frame ($1,798)
GMPhotography wrote:
I get the casual stuff that it could be useful but like the RX-1 whatever it’s called it simply became unusable for just everyday flash work. Not the same issue here but I’m not sure we could push this hard enough to be even Uncle Bob at a wedding if you know what I mean. I’m worried even as a backup and travel primary is this enough camera for us. We are not soccer moms here but a talented group with skills. My question is it enough for us . Not that I’m getting rid of my A7rIV but could this cam do enough to actually go out on a date with it.
That maybe a good thread topic. Is it enough or Will it leave you hanging
It would make a good thread and it will be interesting to see how the use case shakes out for the A7C.
For a pro, I can see why the C might not be useful, so I get you there, just like most pros wouldn't use a Leica M10 on a job. But for people who just shoot for the love of shooting and want an easy in the hand and to carry, non-intimidating camera body that gives the best IQ Sony is capable of, the A7C hits a sweet spot that has been unaddressed in full frame. I think it will be a body that a lot of committed amateurs will want to own. I haven't shot a flash picture in 10 years.
I think it will favor travel, street, walk-around-take-with-you and candid, documentary images of friends and family. Even shooting my family at home, a smaller profile tends to leave people more relaxed for candid images.
A lot will depend on what lenses you can put on the body. All of the Sony 1.8 lenses, from the 20mm to the 85mm, are small and high quality and fast. If they introduce some V lenses that are high image quality primes and small, moderate range zooms, this could become a go-to camera for a lot of users. And there quite a few high quality MF lenses that are small and would fit beautifully on the C. Like the CV SE lenses. Almost like the CV SE lenses were made for this body.
