The cripple hammer finally showing its ugly head??
"All in all, these findings make me deeply suspicious and distrustful of what Canon is telling us and why the hardware is laid out as it is.
If it is proven that Canon purposefully restricted recording times in firmware, using heat as an excuse, in all the highest quality video modes on the EOS R5 they advertised as key headline grabbing features, in order to maintain professional use of the Cinema EOS camcorders, I will never buy another Canon camera again for as long as I live and I think the full force of consumer law should be brought to bear"
I haven't seen enough camera teardowns to know if a bare CPU is normal or not...however, in the world of computing, you would usually have a heat pipe over a heat source like this, as the article says, so this is pointing to them cramming too much into a smaller chassis than they are used to (5D/1D).
While I'm sure the camera can overheat eventually, I tend to believe this is software. If it was true overheating, then why can you shoot HQ 4K60 with a ninja for 4 hours? How can you immediately switch to 4K Standard and shoot forever or shoot stills if the CPU is overheated? Doesn't make sense. Also the fact that no matter what you do (including packing the camera in ice) you can't cool the camera down any faster. It's software. Now, maybe the software limitations are based on worse-case-scenario heating, but I doubt it. Since you can shoot oversampled 4k30 crop without limits (basically Super 35) than allowing this camera to shoot full frame for unlimited times would let it outperform the current and new line of Cinema cameras (Also Super 35). It was the cripple hammer and they could probably fix a lot with a FW Update. Their biggest problem now is the explanation
The best way to determine if the time limit is firmware-related is to attempt to defeat the firmware's mechanism to record the time/states associated with the thermal shutdown. All camera settings and firmware state variables are stored in NVRAM. The settings are typically only written out when the camera does an orderly shutdown (optimization). You can verify this yourself by changing one of the shooting parameters (aperture, shutter speed, ISO) and then pulling out the battery while the camera is on. When you plug the battery back in you'll likely see the camera didn't save that change. The state variables associated with any potential video timer/limit/thermal threshold might be defeated using this same technique.
snapsy wrote:
I just posted this to Andrew's thread on EOSHD:
The best way to determine if the time limit is firmware-related is to attempt to defeat the firmware's mechanism to record the time/states associated with the thermal shutdown. All camera settings and firmware state variables are stored in NVRAM. The settings are typically only written out when the camera does an orderly shutdown (optimization). You can verify this yourself by changing one of the shooting parameters (aperture, shutter speed, ISO) and then pulling out the battery while the camera is on. When you plug the battery back in you'll likely see the camera didn't save that change. The state variables associated with any potential video timer/limit/thermal threshold might be defeated using this same technique. ...Show more →
Couldn't the camera us its internal battery to save these changes? It's likely just a flag and a timestamp.
Bernie_King wrote:
Couldn't the camera us its internal battery to save these changes? It's likely just a flag and a timestamp.
The camera has an internal battery for NVRAM. However it can only preserve what is actually written to NVRAM. Most cameras only update the values in NVRAM during an orderly shutdown. While the camera is on those values are typically shadowed in DDR (faster). If you pull the main battery out while the camera is on (abrupt shutdown) then you deny the firmware the chance to save the shadowed values back to NVRAM.
snapsy wrote:
I just posted this to Andrew's thread on EOSHD:
The best way to determine if the time limit is firmware-related is to attempt to defeat the firmware's mechanism to record the time/states associated with the thermal shutdown. All camera settings and firmware state variables are stored in NVRAM. The settings are typically only written out when the camera does an orderly shutdown (optimization). You can verify this yourself by changing one of the shooting parameters (aperture, shutter speed, ISO) and then pulling out the battery while the camera is on. When you plug the battery back in you'll likely see the camera didn't save that change. The state variables associated with any potential video timer/limit/thermal threshold might be defeated using this same technique. ...Show more →
and that goes back to the no overheating with a dummy battery in part
Ray Still wrote:
and that goes back to the no overheating with a dummy battery in part
Just as an FYI, the same guy did a Part 2 video using the internal battery but no cards. He was able to exaust the battery at HQ 4k60 with no overheat. He stopped there.
It appears that the CFe card is the problem. But you have to ask yourself then, why can't you shoot to an SD with better results? They don't get hot. I'm still saying this is firmware and is intentional. I think that the ability to shoot external was a bug. The software that determines time limits clearly queries the system to validate the card size and availability. Likely the code was written to check for the CFe card and size, then the SD Card and Size and the programmer never thought to check for external recording.
artsupreme wrote:
The cripple hammer finally showing its ugly head??
"All in all, these findings make me deeply suspicious and distrustful of what Canon is telling us and why the hardware is laid out as it is.
If it is proven that Canon purposefully restricted recording times in firmware, using heat as an excuse, in all the highest quality video modes on the EOS R5 they advertised as key headline grabbing features, in order to maintain professional use of the Cinema EOS camcorders, I will never buy another Canon camera again for as long as I live and I think the full force of consumer law should be brought to bear" ...Show more →
I don't know about that HDEOS guy. I'll never understand why some people act like spoilt children.
If you don't like it, then don't buy it.
Bernie_King wrote:
Just as an FYI, the same guy did a Part 2 video using the internal battery but no cards. He was able to exaust the battery at HQ 4k60 with no overheat. He stopped there. Also of note, the A7s III uses the smaller CFE form factor without issue.
It appears that the CFe card is the problem. But you have to ask yourself then, why can't you shoot to an SD with better results? They don't get hot. I'm still saying this is firmware and is intentional. I think that the ability to shoot external was a bug. The software that determines time limits clearly queries the system to validate the card size and availability. Likely the code was written to check for the CFe card and size, then the SD Card and Size and the programmer never thought to check for external recording. ...Show more →
It doesn't quite indicate the CFE card is the problem. By bypassing CFE the camera also bypasses the entire internal recording path, which includes bypassing the video compression path and logic through DIGIC. That is more likely to be the issue than the CFE card.
Bernie_King wrote:
It appears that the CFe card is the problem. But you have to ask yourself then, why can't you shoot to an SD with better results? They don't get hot. I'm still saying this is firmware and is intentional. I think that the ability to shoot external was a bug. The software that determines time limits clearly queries the system to validate the card size and availability. Likely the code was written to check for the CFe card and size, then the SD Card and Size and the programmer never thought to check for external recording.
Was done to keep forum posters running around in circles !! Remember the first National Treasure movie when grand dad warns the clues were to keep people looking for more clues, and so forth? The threads and comments bring that movie to mind.
Who will become "Ben" and unlock the secrets of the R5 !!!
