I would hope the battery compartment is sealed from the rest of the body. There certainly would be no reason for there to be any venting at all into the camera, and in fact you would not want any camera heat to bleed to the battery compartment (or vice versa). I wouldn't want my lithium ion batteries exposed to 120 deg or more, that isn't good for Li-ion batteries.
TeamSpeed wrote:
Actually no, it doesn't have alot of dead space. You can see the tear down of the R, the cameras are packed with various boards for battery/power, cards, main PCB, sensor board, etc. Combine that with the seals around the side panels for the ports, the rear panel is covered in material and rear LCD control, etc. Heat isn't coming out of the cameras very well at all. There are about 4-5 layers of material and electronics front to back with reinforced frame on the bottom for the tripod, and more.
The R5 will run MUCH hotter than the R and likely has even more goodies packed inside it like an IBIS system and a more powerful processor system.
The best chance you have to get the heat out of the camera is from the front, thus why Canon is considering an EF adapter that has a cooler in it. Buy hey, maybe they are just stupid and trying strange little tricks to appease the masses.
People doing astrophotography have been pretty diligent in tracking their camera temps, even the older bodies end up getting over 100 deg inside. Also, temps just don't come down very quickly. This is why these people build chiller boxes.
The Canon 5D2, for example, needed 8 minutes to cool down from the heat increase of 1 minute live view. Not even that well sealed compared to today's cameras like the R5 and 5D4... ...Show more →
So, let's put aside the interpretration of "a lot of empty space". Because what I meant is that it is not filled with insulating foam, it has empty air gaps between the back panel and the chips inside. And it is not well insulated. It is just a thin layer of plastic over very conductive metal, it should be perfectly capable of having heat extracted by having ice packs attached to it. That has shown to not be the case for whatever reason by many people, and reported on in many reviews. Heat doesn't require actual air to be removed from a system. It can be removed through radiation, and attaching cooling items to a device like the R5 should result in it being cooled down faster, but so far anecdotal evidence shows that isn't the case. It just takes a long time to "cool down".
I am extremely suspicious of this cool down period, and believe it has something hidden in the software that causes it to take so long.
Getting up to 100f inside is pretty low compared to the numbers posted in this thread. 76c is 168.8f. 100f as reported by the astro people is basically human body temp with a mild fever. 168f is enough to cause significant burns with 1 second of contact.
Obviously if the outside shell shows 123 deg, the inside is more than that. I suspect the Tilta unit might get that down to 100 deg. I only reference the other threads for the older cameras to show that they heat up quickly and cool down slowly, and the newer cameras run hotter, have more inside the body, and are sealed better.
I found it interesting that both Gerald Undone and DPReview made mention that the heat warning is actually based on a standard to prevent burns to human skin. Not to protect electronics. Of course one will go along with the other but that was interesting to me.
I still think in the end Canon will just put a "disclaimer" mode like Sony did and let the camera run hotter than it does now. These limits just seem too weird to me where it takes so long to cool and also that running just a slightly lower video quality lets you go forever and yet you can't even touch 4K HQ for 2 hours??
TeamSpeed wrote:
Obviously if the outside shell shows 123 deg, the inside is more than that. I suspect the Tilta unit might get that down to 100 deg. I only reference the other threads for the older cameras to show that they heat up quickly and cool down slowly, and the newer cameras run hotter, have more inside the body, and are sealed better.
arbitrage wrote:
I found it interesting that both Gerald Undone and DPReview made mention that the heat warning is actually based on a standard to prevent burns to human skin. Not to protect electronics. Of course one will go along with the other but that was interesting to me.
I still think in the end Canon will just put a "disclaimer" mode like Sony did and let the camera run hotter than it does now. These limits just seem too weird to me where it takes so long to cool and also that running just a slightly lower video quality lets you go forever and yet you can't even touch 4K HQ for 2 hours?? ...Show more →
I can imagine that CFE card generates lots of heat when you're writing 8K video to it, the darn thing heats up when transferring files from the card reader to the computer, ... 512GB from my 1dxII.
I agree, the card does get hot transferring images and footage, but bear in mind that those transfer speeds are still like 3x faster than the bitrate for 8k raw.
Pius Sullivan wrote:
I can imagine that CFE card generates lots of heat when you're writing 8K video to it, the darn thing heats up when transferring files from the card reader to the computer, ... 512GB from my 1dxII.
I’m going to go on record saying that blowing air near a sensor that we have tried to keep air and the dust particles contained in the air away from for two decades is probably a terrible cooling solution.
“What if we filter the air?” - good so now you need bigger (hotter) motors to suck air in and maybe the filters don’t off their own small amounts of dust.
If you want to shoot video go buy a cinema camera, some of these cooling techniques are getting absurd.
TeamSpeed wrote:
So many people get their knickers in a knot over dust on the sensor, it takes less time to clean a sensor than it does to get a good moon shot.
What blower near the sensor are we talking about again?
This delightful RF mounted fan people keep imagining
Canon's EF cooler adapter patent is there to review, there is no air going into the camera, most likely the air circulating inside the adapter is there to cool the hot side of a peltier plate that will be in contact with the camera.
I still am a bit skeptical of how that cooler will keep the camera cool.
agreed.
how efficient will the heat transfer be from the Peltier thru the plastic thru the interior air into the magnesium frame thru the internal air again to absorb the the heat from the components? you would have to drop the plastic case temperature by -100 of degrees, lol. how many amps are we talking about for the Peltier to do this?
you're going to have to mod the camera in order to get the internal ambient down to shall we say 0
I still am a bit skeptical of how that cooler will keep the camera cool.
agreed.
how efficient will the heat transfer be from the Peltier thru the plastic thru the interior air into the magnesium frame thru the internal air again to absorb the the heat from the components? you would have to drop the plastic case temperature by -100 of degrees, lol. how many amps are we talking about for the Peltier to do this?
you're going to have to mod the camera in order to get the internal ambient down to shall we say 0°C. then and only then will one be able to run 8K limitless.
At least the R5 will be great during winter. I will just go shoot some 4K and 8K video and then the camera can be a nice handwarmer, along with the CF card.
Perhaps Canon should have added that to their marketing, "the camera that comes with a built-in handwarmer for those colder climates..." much like my heated steering wheel on the Camaro which never is driven in the winter.
how efficient will the heat transfer be from the Peltier thru the plastic thru the interior air into the magnesium frame thru the internal air again to absorb the the heat from the components? you would have to drop the plastic case temperature by -100 of degrees, lol. how many amps are we talking about for the Peltier to do this?
you're going to have to mod the camera in order to get the internal ambient down to shall we say 0°C. then and only then will one be able to run 8K limitless.
oh, did i forget to mention that as long as the electronic components are drawing electricity that they are emitting heat? and that ideally we want to create a ΔT such that more of the component's heat is absorbed into the surrounding environment? thus reducing the components operating temp.
the question is what is the ΔT gradient | ambient 0°C R5 operating environment Temp | ambient X°C R5 interior environment Temp? and will that gradient be linear?
So here's an idea I just thought of: since the cards get so hot that Canon had to put a warning inside the card door, is there a way to attach a heatsink/pipe in a way that it would insert into a card slot without shorting it? Maybe dummy pins connected by thermal pads? Being so hot, drawing heat away from the card slots should be great for directing heat out of the body. Then a fan could be added. Not great for hybrid work without a bit of finagling, but fine for video-only.
A concern: I don't remember how my EOS R's card door operated, but at least my 5D II disables the camera when the door is open. Is this true of the R5, as well? If so, a workaround (dummy door frame, cutting a hole in the door) would be necessary to get the above idea to work.
Another concern: does the camera need a card inserted to record video externally? If not, dual heatsinks/pipes can be installed for twice the cooling. That, along with offloading a good amount of work to the external recorder, should remedy a lot of the shutdown situations
