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Archive 2020 · Loving the Acratech GXP Ballhead!

  
 
DaveTCC
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p.2 #1 · Loving the Acratech GXP Ballhead!


Does anyone actually take the load rating seriously? From my experience the rating doesn't seem to correlate well to any aspect of the head's quality or performance. What 50 lb (~22kg) piece of photographic gear would anyone be willing to put on the Acratech GXP head?


Jan 06, 2020 at 10:28 AM
Kris Reiswig
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p.2 #2 · Loving the Acratech GXP Ballhead!


I have been using acratech ballheads with the clamp feature as a gimbal for over 10 years. Largest lens is the Canon 100-400 and that feature works very, very well.


Jan 06, 2020 at 10:29 AM
jharter
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p.2 #3 · Loving the Acratech GXP Ballhead!


DaveTCC wrote:
Does anyone actually take the load rating seriously? From my experience the rating doesn't seem to correlate well to any aspect of the head's quality or performance. What 50 lb (~22kg) piece of photographic gear would anyone be willing to put on the Acratech GXP head?


I agree. I have the smaller Acratech GPSS ballhead. In practical terms, it will handle a 70-200, maybe 100-400 but I would not go larger. Even if technically a ballhead will lock down there is a point at which it "feels" it has met its match. Not sure that is measurable but everyone knows what that feels like.

I used to use 8x10 cameras. Putting an 8x10 camera with extended bellows and a 360/5.6 lens on the end will quickly illustrate the practical limits of a given ballhead. I don't use large telephotos but my impression is that they are more evenly balanced so that when shooting level, you could probably put an 800 on a tiny ballhead and it would hold. That does not mean it is capable of real world use.



Jan 06, 2020 at 10:38 AM
EB-1
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p.2 #4 · Loving the Acratech GXP Ballhead!


I'd rather use a 10+ lb. camera/tele lens on a gimbal rated for 22 lbs. than a ball head rated for 50+ lbs.

EBH



Jan 06, 2020 at 12:12 PM
jeetsukumaran
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p.2 #5 · Loving the Acratech GXP Ballhead!


DaveTCC wrote:
Does anyone actually take the load rating seriously? From my experience the rating doesn't seem to correlate well to any aspect of the head's quality or performance. What 50 lb (~22kg) piece of photographic gear would anyone be willing to put on the Acratech GXP head?


I don't take ANY ballhead load ratings seriously! At best, I take it more as a suggestion of "size class", but where the marketing label associated with the size class ("25lbs" vs "50lbs") does not really communicate weight cardinally but ordinally ("midrange" vs "heavy range" or "class 1" vs "class 2" etc.)

I usually take ball size as the single most important indicator of load capacity and performance under stress. I'm not an engineer, and you are the best person to know this so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I imagine that ll else being equal, increasing the ballhead size is the easiest way to increase performance (at the cost of weight/bulk). So it would take a remarkable bit of special design/enigneering for the 38mm GXP to match the performance of the 48mm/55mm/58mm "stars" as loads get toward the heavy side of things. Even if it locks up the load steady, actually using the ballhead is probably not going to be as easy or pleasant.

As an example: I have qualitatively compared the FLM 48mm and 58mm under the same load. They both handled a 100-400GM + A7R3 + speedlight with very little issue. Both the 48 and the 58 had the held this load fine enough when fully locked down. However, at the drag/tension setting where I did not have to actually lock the ball, i.e. I could just point the lens and let go and it would stay in place (as long as the angle was moderate; only the elliptical ball design of the AS applies the same tension across the full range of angles) , the FLM 58 was slightly but noticeably smoother in movement than the FLM 48. I imagine as the load increases, this difference would be far more apparent, and at some point would separate into "useable" vs "unusable". Further, if one's style of using the ballhead was the "fully-loose-and-then-fully-locked" approach as opposed to "high-tension-then-gentle-nudge-to-lock" approach, they probably would have to get to even higher loads to notice any difference in usage (and then it would have to be how hard one would have to torque the locking knob to hold the position, to the point where locking down would be unpleasantly difficult even if possible). Conversely, with lighter loads, I could see no difference at all.

So, the "50lbs" rating on the GXP does not mean "50lbs of load" (or even 20lbs of load) to me. I do believe they have tested it to that load (they have a video showing the older GP models tested to its "rating" of 25lbs:

), but that, to me, does not mean that I think the ballhead would be usable with a load of that weight, especially at high torque (e.g., 45 deg) as opposed the "easy" angles show in the demos. While the max weight I think I will throw at this ballhead is less than 10lbs (100-400 GM or a macro lens and focusing rail), the "50lb" rating of the GXP over the "25lb" of the GP suggest that as weights/stress increase, the GXP will hold up (possibly slighty) better for (possibly slightly) longer, but it would not surprise me if the practical limits fall far short of either's rated capacity.





Jan 06, 2020 at 12:16 PM
DaveTCC
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p.2 #6 · Loving the Acratech GXP Ballhead!


I totally agree, it is best to look at the physical dimensions of a ball head when attempting to judge its stability. The ball diameter is important, but so is the thickness and length of the stem that connects the ball to the clamp. Ball diameter makes the biggest difference in smoothness and locking force, but the stem is usually the limiting factor in the stiffness of the head. The stiffness of the head often seems to be ignored since it is very difficult to notice when handling just the head itself. With a tripod, you can twist it and feel it flex. Not so much with a ball head though since it is very hard to get the right leverage on it to do so. Once you load it up though, this flex (lack of stiffness) can become very noticeable as a long lens provides the leverage you need to feel the weakness of the head. This is why I see stiffness as the most important quality of the head. Admittedly though, this is somewhat self serving as mine is the only site to provide actual measurements for head stiffness.

Given that the geometry of the GXP looks basically the same as the older GP heads, I would guess that performance wise, the heads are the same. I may be somewhat cynical, but I think Acratech just increased the load rating to make the head look better against the competition. I'm happy to change my opinion here, though I would need to see a precise definition on how they come up with the weight rating and measure it to do so. In the video above, they put ~1000 lbs of weight on the GP head and it holds up just fine. So clearly this isn't their method.

Be careful about using weight ratings to determine the class of a head as well. There doesn't seem to be any consistency here across the industry. For example, which of the following heads has the highest weight rating?








Jan 06, 2020 at 05:24 PM
sjms
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p.2 #7 · Loving the Acratech GXP Ballhead!


In addition to the ball diameter you need to take into account the actual clamping contact area on said ball.

You will note the design of the Acratechs are smaller ball diameter with a mid circumference band clamping Assy.

so yes ball diameter does matter but so does the clamping assy. there can be a balance attained between the two. but a larger ball clamp assy will be a better operating system overall over a larger range of use.



Jan 06, 2020 at 06:12 PM
IndyFab
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p.2 #8 · Loving the Acratech GXP Ballhead!


EB-1 wrote:
I'd rather use a 10+ lb. camera/tele lens on a gimbal rated for 22 lbs. than a ball head rated for 50+ lbs.

EBH


Totally agree, but I think I rather try a 50lb rating vs a 25lb rating, not that your ever going to take the weight ratio to its max or even close to that.

You would think with a 50lb rating, it would be capable of 10+ lbs, as thats only a fraction of its capacity

In my case my Acratech GP ball had a rating of 25lbs, and my camera and lens had a combined weight of 5.76lbs, and it didnt hold. However you think it should because thats only a fraction of its 25lb capacity.

So I question with a 50lb rating that it would do the job with a 10 + lb camera lens combo

From the report of jeetssukumarian, I would be willing to give a GXP a try for my setup, so long as wherever I bought it had a strong return policy.

However I been seriously eyeing the Acratech Long or Pano Head for my long hikes, as it would shave about a lb off my fluid head that I really like and use out of the vehicle because of its weight. Anyone out there have any experience Pro's/Con's with the Acratech Long or Pano Head ?









Edited on Jan 07, 2020 at 04:59 PM · View previous versions



Jan 07, 2020 at 10:26 AM
IndyFab
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p.2 #9 · Loving the Acratech GXP Ballhead!


sjms wrote:
In addition to the ball diameter you need to take into account the actual clamping contact area on said ball.

You will note the design of the Acratechs are smaller ball diameter with a mid circumference band clamping Assy.

so yes ball diameter does matter but so does the clamping assy. there can be a balance attained between the two. but a larger ball clamp assy will be a better operating system overall over a larger range of use.


Yepp, I agree with that one




Jan 07, 2020 at 10:37 AM
DaveTCC
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p.2 #10 · Loving the Acratech GXP Ballhead!


IndyFab wrote:
However I been seriously eyeing the Acratech Long or Pano Head for my long hikes, as it would shave about a lb of my fluid head that I really like and use out of the vehicle because of its weight. Anyone out there have any experience Pro's/Con's with the Acratech Long or Pano Head ?



I have the Acratech Pano Head. It is a fantastic head. It is both the stiffest and lightest pan-tilt head I have tested. Ergonomics and build quality are generally excellent. The only downside of the head is that it has no roll movement for leveling, only pan and tilt. You either need a leveling base or will have to level it out with the tripod legs. As long as that isn't an issue for your setup/workflow, then yes, 100% recommended.



Jan 07, 2020 at 11:25 AM
Chris Court
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p.2 #11 · Loving the Acratech GXP Ballhead!


IndyFab wrote:
However I been seriously eyeing the Acratech Long or Pano Head for my long hikes, as it would shave about a lb of my fluid head that I really like and use out of the vehicle because of its weight. Anyone out there have any experience Pro's/Con's with the Acratech Long or Pano Head ?


I currently have one of each (one will be on the B&S soon, but I haven't decided which, yet). They are functionally extremely similar, except the Pano head has degree markings on the up/down axis, and a moveable zero-point for the rotational axis. The Pano head also has an improved mechanism for the rotation of the clamp… the LLH has a small amount of lateral play unless really screwed down tight, which is a little hard to do with the placement of the knob.

I concur with Dave above that they are great heads, but really need to be combined with a levelling base to be useful.

C






Jan 07, 2020 at 12:35 PM
jeetsukumaran
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p.2 #12 · Loving the Acratech GXP Ballhead!


IndyFab wrote:
Totally agree, but I think I rather try a 50lb rating vs a 25lb rating, not that your ever going to take the weight ratio to its max or even close to that.

You would think with a 50lb rating, it would be capable of 10+ lbs, as thats only a fraction of its capacity

In my case my Acratech GP ball had a rating of 25lbs, and my camera and lens had a combined weight of 5.76lbs, and it didnt hold. However you think it should because thats only a fraction of its 25lb capacity.

So I question with a 50lb
...Show more

IndyFab, I agree with you completely. I would expect a "25lb" rated ballhead to hold 5.76 lbs without issue. And further, I would caution your optimism about the GXP if the GP let you down. As DaveTCC notes, it does not look all that different from the GP, and the ball size is the same, though it is possible it applies its locking tension to a greater surface area due to the bigger housing. As for return policy, if there is no brick-and-mortar store near you that stocks it, if you don't mind paying return shipping (which would depend on where you love relative to Pomona, CA), then could order directly from Acratech. They have a stellar return policy, but you do have eat the shipping cost on return (IIRC, the shipping out to me was free).

I confess that I am perplexed about the 5.75 lb load failing on your GP. What was the set up, if I might ask? Telephoto? Focus rail? And under what conditions? High torque, e.g. focusing rail up 45 degs with rig near the end or telephoto? And by failing, I assume you mean some sort of continuous droop or creep no matter how much you tightened the locking knob? Or something more dramatic, like flopping over? Or maybe just vibration/flexing? I have no doubt that all ballheads have their limits, and I have no doubt that the limits of the GXP or the GP are short, and probably far short, than the (for me) reigning superstar Markins Q-20. My satisfaction with the GXP is conditioned on the max load I will be throwing at it within the GXP limits. Like I said, this was the 100-400 GM + Sony A7RIII. That comes up to under 5 lbs, maybe a little more if we put a speedlight on. So that is in the ballpark of your 5.75, give or take a pound. Maybe that pound was the proverbial straw? Really interested in knowing why we had so different results.



Jan 07, 2020 at 01:11 PM
Melancholia
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p.2 #13 · Loving the Acratech GXP Ballhead!


I am very happy with my GP. Had it for about 4yr now but I am a light user. Since ownership, I have tried to convince myself that I needed something with more capacity, less post-lock shift, fancier, etc. I also own an FLM-CB48F mk2. The Acratech is so capable, so bombproof, so reliable that I can't find a better overall package at a hikable 1 lb weight. The only mod that I've done is to use a panning clamp instead of the stock clamp. The only thing I don't like is lack of precise framing. It shifts a bit as I tighten it down. But once secured, I don't find that it droops. I can compensate for it or just crop out a few hundred pixels. No biggie.

Do I want an Arca Cube? Yes. Can I afford one? Yes. Do I wanna lug it out there, worry about dust in the gears, worry about water ingress, etc. Not really.



Jan 07, 2020 at 02:09 PM
jeetsukumaran
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p.2 #14 · Loving the Acratech GXP Ballhead!


DaveTCC wrote:
I totally agree, it is best to look at the physical dimensions of a ball head when attempting to judge its stability. The ball diameter is important, but so is the thickness and length of the stem that connects the ball to the clamp. Ball diameter makes the biggest difference in smoothness and locking force, but the stem is usually the limiting factor in the stiffness of the head. The stiffness of the head often seems to be ignored since it is very difficult to notice when handling just the head itself. With a tripod, you can twist it and
...Show more

And totally appreciate the work you put in measuring this stiffness metric. I agree that it is difficult to assess on a ballhead due to the shortness of the stem. With my 100-400 though, I see more of a flex with my (Wimberly and RRS) lens foot than with the ballhead stem. I say "more" implying some sort of quantitative assessment, but this is misleading. All I mean is that I can actually see the flex on the foot when pushing things around, whereas I cannot with the ballhead (GXP, Markins, or otherwise). That does not mean that it is not there nor that it does contribute (negatively) to the setup, which is why your analyses are so useful!

DaveTCC wrote:
Given that the geometry of the GXP looks basically the same as the older GP heads, I would guess that performance wise, the heads are the same. I may be somewhat cynical, but I think Acratech just increased the load rating to make the head look better against the competition. I'm happy to change my opinion here, though I would need to see a precise definition on how they come up with the weight rating and measure it to do so. In the video above, they put ~1000 lbs of weight on the GP head and it holds up just
...Show more

I think the "25 lb" figure on the GP, for what it is worth, comes from what they show at 0:08 in the video:



The ball size on both the GP and GXP is the same, 38mm (and so is the stem). However, the overall size of the GXP is larger. I suspect that this size increase is due to the larger housing of the ball, and in particular, the height/width of the "arms" that hold the ball (NOTE: I have not measured this myself, not do I have both the GP and GXP on hand to compare; this is just a speculation based on the different dimensions of the ballhead). If so, then the greater advertised capacity presumably follows, at least in the abstract, from the greater contact area to hold the ball locked, whether or not this increased capacity has been empirically tested through a test like the above or any other.

DaveTCC wrote:
Be careful about using weight ratings to determine the class of a head as well. There doesn't seem to be any consistency here across the industry. For example, which of the following heads has the highest weight rating?


Good point! Naturally, I would guess the Feisol on the right as having the highest rating, because of it's size, and I know it has the highest stiffness, because I follow your site! But because you have set up the question, I'm going to guess the marketing doctors have rated the ballhead on the left with the highest number?








Jan 07, 2020 at 02:54 PM
IndyFab
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p.2 #15 · Loving the Acratech GXP Ballhead!


Dave & Chris, I have a RRS leveling base

Chris whats a LLH ? If its the head locking mechanical system, if so, thats what I found on my head on my GP, I would get movement after I locked the screw down tight after awhile of use.

Edited on Jan 07, 2020 at 05:30 PM · View previous versions



Jan 07, 2020 at 05:05 PM
peter_n
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p.2 #16 · Loving the Acratech GXP Ballhead!


Melancholia wrote:
Do I want an Arca Cube? Yes. Can I afford one? Yes. Do I wanna lug it out there, worry about dust in the gears, worry about water ingress, etc. Not really.


Yes I'm in the same boat. I use an A-S L60 mounted on an FLM LB-15 that gives me 25° of movement, enough for my modest attempts at accurate framing. I do keep that unit away from beaches (see snap of L60 gear screw exposed below). They also make a 75mm version but unfortunately have assigned the ridiculous names Core 60 Leveler and Core 75 Leveler to them. My A-S d4 has an open gear on the x-axis and I shield it with a small plastic sheet and I've used it on beaches and got away with it.








Jan 07, 2020 at 05:10 PM
Melancholia
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p.2 #17 · Loving the Acratech GXP Ballhead!


peter_n wrote:
Yes I'm in the same boat. I use an A-S L60 mounted on an FLM LB-15 that gives me 25° of movement, enough for my modest attempts at accurate framing. I do keep that unit away from beaches (see snap of L60 gear screw exposed below). They also make a 75mm version but unfortunately have assigned the ridiculous names Core 60 Leveler and Core 75 Leveler to them. My A-S d4 has an open gear on the x-axis and I shield it with a small plastic sheet and I've used it on beaches and got away with it.


Peter n: I read about the Core 75 Leveler and I like the added range compared to the Core 65. Putting either stack on a ballhead makes for bulkier setup, raises CoG, and probably reduces stiffness. Mounting it straight to a levelling base solves those problems but gives up some flexibility. Since there is no ideal solution, I decided to stay put until the need of precise framing rear its head enough to accept the tradeoffs.

I have looked at various levelling bases and the only one that I could commit to is the RRS because of its integrated bubble level. But that unit can only mate with RRS legs (which I do not have) or Gitzo Systematic (which I have 2 of). But I like my PMG TR344L also....but don't like their levelling base.

talk about 1st world problems. Lol.



Jan 07, 2020 at 05:42 PM
IndyFab
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p.2 #18 · Loving the Acratech GXP Ballhead!


jeetsukumaran wrote:
IndyFab, I agree with you completely. I would expect a "25lb" rated ballhead to hold 5.76 lbs without issue. And further, I would caution your optimism about the GXP if the GP let you down. As DaveTCC notes, it does not look all that different from the GP, and the ball size is the same, though it is possible it applies its locking tension to a greater surface area due to the bigger housing. As for return policy, if there is no brick-and-mortar store near you that stocks it, if you don't mind paying return shipping (which would depend on
...Show more

I always keep my head balanced when using a Tele with a foot attached, so it can get locked into the head, not the camera into the head There was no unusual conditions, just normal conditions.. Maybe I had a bad one.

As I mentioned I also had issue with the head, even when I tightened the screw on the head tight, it would come loose after some use, and I would get movement there.




Jan 07, 2020 at 05:50 PM
Chris Court
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p.2 #19 · Loving the Acratech GXP Ballhead!


IndyFab wrote:
Dave & Chris, I have a RRS leveling base

Chris whats a LLH ? If its the head locking mechanical system, if so, thats what I found on my head on my GP, I would get movement after I locked the screw down tight after awhile of use.


LLH is the Acratech Long Lens Head. It's fundamentally similar to the Acratech Panoramic head, but with a few detail differences.

The play I was talking about is in the indexing mechanism that allows you to rotate the clamp for lateral or lengthways use. It's not a huge problem anyway, and goes away entirely if you synch the knob down tightly (as I mentioned, this mechanism has been improved on the Panoramic head). The rest of the head is extremely tight, with no discernable play in the 2 axes of motion.

I'm using these on an RRS levelling base too, and it works great, the one exception being when I have the 4th leg segment extended on the tripod, putting the bubble level above eye-level.

C



Jan 07, 2020 at 08:24 PM
IndyFab
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p.2 #20 · Loving the Acratech GXP Ballhead!


Chris Court wrote:
LLH is the Acratech Long Lens Head. It's fundamentally similar to the Acratech Panoramic head, but with a few detail differences.

The play I was talking about is in the indexing mechanism that allows you to rotate the clamp for lateral or lengthways use. It's not a huge problem anyway, and goes away entirely if you synch the knob down tightly (as I mentioned, this mechanism has been improved on the Panoramic head). The rest of the head is extremely tight, with no discernable play in the 2 axes of motion.

I'm using these on an RRS levelling base too, and
...Show more

Thanks Chris , sounds like the Pano is the way to go then




Jan 07, 2020 at 08:40 PM
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