p.2 #1 · A7RIV: No Real-time tracking in Animal Eye-AF?
arbitrage wrote:
The release notes for FW 1.20 were as follows:
* Improves the Auto Focus (AF) performance when recording movies with the FE 12-24mm F2.8 GM (SEL1224GM) lens
* Improves the overall stability of the camera
It did not enable real time tracking AF modes when Animal is selected for Subject detection. The A7RIV had Animal Eye detect since the beginning but it never had the ability to use the Tracking modes when it was selected. The fact that it didn't have this ability wasn't a big deal to me as you can still use Wide to have it look and track eyes all over the frame. However, the annoying thing was even if Face/Eye detect was turned off it wouldn't allow you to use the Tracking AF modes if you had it set to Animal (for when you wanted to turn it back on and use it without tracking). That is where my annoyance came from. I'd want to leave it on Animal so I could toggle Face/Eye on when I wanted to use it (and accept I couldn't use a Tracking mode when I did) but I had to do two steps in this case...switch it from Human to Animal and turn it On. ...Show more →
Any luck with camera tracking eyes on birds/animals set on human??
p.2 #2 · A7RIV: No Real-time tracking in Animal Eye-AF?
It would help if people stop calling Wide, "Wide Zone". Sony does not refer to this mode as Wide Zone. It is called Wide. Then there is Zone.
The A7RIV will do Eye-AF out of any of the AF modes (Sony refers to them as AF Areas). When in a non-tracking mode it will look for the eye only within the defined Area. If you use Tracking AF modes then it will look for the eye within the defined Area but then continue to track the eye across the entire sensor if it leaves the defined Area. On the A7RIV Animal Eye AF doesn't work in the Tracking modes. Human does (I think...never used it).
There is also the option to use the legacy Eye-AF method by programming a custom button to "Eye-AF". If this button is pushed the system will search for an eye over the entire frame and ignore the currently set AF Area. I believe this would work with Animal Eye AF selected because it is basically just resorting to Wide mode to search and track the eye over the frame. But it doesn't initiate the Real Time Tracking mode (square with vertical line on either side of the square).
p.2 #3 · A7RIV: No Real-time tracking in Animal Eye-AF?
kimmeisinger wrote:
Any luck with camera tracking eyes on birds/animals set on human??
Never tried that. Birds aren't really supported anyways (only A1 and A7IV). The A9 would pick up a few species of birds like dunlin, owls, female pintails, song sparrow IF they were very large in the frame and relatively stationary. But it was so hit and miss that I just left it off even on that camera. I would initiate Animal Eye AF on the A9/A9II only if I saw a deer or racoon or otter or seal (those were the only animals I encountered). I don't think I ever really tried with the A7RIV as I shot that camera very infrequently.
You could certainly try to aim it at some animals with Human enabled and see what it does. Doesn't hurt to try.
p.2 #4 · A7RIV: No Real-time tracking in Animal Eye-AF?
jeffbuzz wrote:
Real-time tracking only works in wide zone mode.
Sony has a video describing how to enabled it here
From the DPR article:
“So what is ‘Real-time tracking’? Simply now called ‘Tracking’, it’s Sony’s new subject tracking mode. Subject tracking allows you to indicate to your camera what your subject is, which you then trust it to track. Simply place your AF point over the subject, half-press the shutter to focus, and the camera will keep track of it no matter where it moves to in the frame - by automatically shifting the AF points as necessary”
When AF is set to wide, there is no AF point to place over your subject, instead the camera chooses a subject.
p.2 #5 · A7RIV: No Real-time tracking in Animal Eye-AF?
I remember using this on dog a few months ago and being disappointed by the success rate and then trying it on a duck probably in December and being disappointed by the success rate. The box moved and nothing was in focus and I haven't tried using it since. Literally shot the sequence, checked the back screen, cursed and then put the thing back in expanded spot. RoamingScott wrote:
All of this, and no mention that RTT is a very poor performer on the R4? Strongly suggest not even bothering with it, you're better in Wide 99% of the time. The A9/A1 changes the formula substantially.
p.2 #6 · A7RIV: No Real-time tracking in Animal Eye-AF?
JadedWriter wrote:
I remember using this on dog a few months ago and being disappointed by the success rate and then trying it on a duck probably in December and being disappointed by the success rate. The box moved and nothing was in focus and I haven't tried using it since. Literally shot the sequence, checked the back screen, cursed and then put the thing back in expanded spot.
It's pathetic that it works better on the Z7ii than it does on the R4
p.2 #7 · A7RIV: No Real-time tracking in Animal Eye-AF?
arbitrage wrote:
It would help if people stop calling Wide, "Wide Zone". Sony does not refer to this mode as Wide Zone. It is called Wide. Then there is Zone.
The A7RIV will do Eye-AF out of any of the AF modes (Sony refers to them as AF Areas). When in a non-tracking mode it will look for the eye only within the defined Area. If you use Tracking AF modes then it will look for the eye within the defined Area but then continue to track the eye across the entire sensor if it leaves the defined Area. On the A7RIV Animal Eye AF doesn't work in the Tracking modes. Human does (I think...never used it).
There is also the option to use the legacy Eye-AF method by programming a custom button to "Eye-AF". If this button is pushed the system will search for an eye over the entire frame and ignore the currently set AF Area. I believe this would work with Animal Eye AF selected because it is basically just resorting to Wide mode to search and track the eye over the frame. But it doesn't initiate the Real Time Tracking mode (square with vertical line on either side of the square)....Show more →
This really helped sort this out for me. Thank you.
p.2 #8 · A7RIV: No Real-time tracking in Animal Eye-AF?
RoamingScott wrote:
All of this, and no mention that RTT is a very poor performer on the R4? Strongly suggest not even bothering with it, you're better in Wide 99% of the time. The A9/A1 changes the formula substantially.
I would go even one step further and say that I never even liked using RTT on the A9/A9II. At least for BIF or other moving subjects. I did use it for perched birds some of the time. Now with the A1 I'm using it a bit more for BIF but I still prefer Wide and Zone (without tracking). I do use RTT for perched birds most of the time on the A1 as my Custom Set for perched birds uses Expand Flex Spot: Tracking as its recalled AF mode (along with lower SS, Auto ISO, 10FPS).
p.2 #9 · A7RIV: No Real-time tracking in Animal Eye-AF?
arbitrage wrote:
I would go even one step further and say that I never even liked using RTT on the A9/A9II. At least for BIF or other moving subjects. I did use it for perched birds some of the time. Now with the A1 I'm using it a bit more for BIF but I still prefer Wide and Zone (without tracking). I do use RTT for perched birds most of the time on the A1 as my Custom Set for perched birds uses Expand Flex Spot: Tracking as its recalled AF mode (along with lower SS, Auto ISO, 10FPS).
To be fair, I doubt it was ever intended for subjects as erratic as birds. Works well with people, cars, etc.
p.2 #10 · A7RIV: No Real-time tracking in Animal Eye-AF?
RoamingScott wrote:
To be fair, I doubt it was ever intended for subjects as erratic as birds. Works well with people, cars, etc.
Sometimes on the A1 at least it has worked pretty good. This sequence was shot via the tilt screen with the camera body resting on the toe of my shoe and me supporting the lens hood with my left hand. It was done in RTT and with the relatively clean background did a good job.
p.2 #12 · A7RIV: No Real-time tracking in Animal Eye-AF?
RoamingScott wrote:
RoamingScott wrote:
All of this, and no mention that RTT is a very poor performer on the R4? Strongly suggest not even bothering with it, you're better in Wide 99% of the time. The A9/A1 changes the formula substantially.....
To be fair, I doubt it was ever intended for subjects as erratic as birds. Works well with people, cars, etc.
Don't use my A7RIV for BIF, but for these "Tbird" photos the RTT, Zone and AF-C at low or medium is the cats meow. My hit ratio the last year with aviation photo and the A7RIV / 100-400mm GM is over 90%. Taken last Saturday, just over 1,000 photos and never had to focus once, the dancing dots did all the work.
p.2 #13 · A7RIV: No Real-time tracking in Animal Eye-AF?
“Dancing dot” AF is NOT real time tracking. You are describing plain ol’ AF-C. RTT is a single dot that sticks to a subject.
SpecFoto wrote:
Don't use my A7RIV for BIF, but for these "Tbird" photos the RTT, Zone and AF-C at low or medium is the cats meow. My hit ratio the last year with aviation photo and the A7RIV / 100-400mm GM is over 90%. Taken last Saturday, just over 1,000 photos and never had to focus once, the dancing dots did all the work.
p.2 #14 · A7RIV: No Real-time tracking in Animal Eye-AF?
RoamingScott wrote:
“Dancing dot” AF is NOT real time tracking. You are describing plain ol’ AF-C. RTT is a single dot that sticks to a subject.
I turn on Zone with tracking, hit the BBF once, and it follows the planes, that sounds like tracking to me? Some of these series of photos followed the jets in a 90 degree arc and went from under 200mm out to 300mm or more and of course the jets were bouncing around in EVF, but the tracking did its job. Are there 2 modes of tracking?
Checked the online help guide for the A7RIV and no mention of RTT, just the Tracking Function?
Mar 01, 2022 at 06:13 PM
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p.2 #15 · A7RIV: No Real-time tracking in Animal Eye-AF?
RoamingScott wrote:
“Dancing dot” AF is NOT real time tracking. You are describing plain ol’ AF-C. RTT is a single dot that sticks to a subject.
rtt is a box filled with dozens or more af points, until it automatically reverts to a recognizable subject like face detection or eyeaf, where it's still using more than one autofocus point.
SpecFoto wrote:
I turn on Zone with tracking, hit the BBF once, and it follows the planes, that sounds like tracking to me? Some of these series of photos followed the jets in a 90 degree arc and went from under 200mm out to 300mm or more and of course the jets were bouncing around in EVF, but the tracking did its job. Are there 2 modes of tracking?
Checked the online help guide for the A7RIV and no mention of RTT, just the Tracking Function?
rtt is about initial subject selection more than anything... with those groups of four planes you could pick the plane that you wanted to stay in focus, instead of letting the camera decide which plane stays in focus.
p.2 #16 · A7RIV: No Real-time tracking in Animal Eye-AF?
SpecFoto wrote:
I turn on Zone with tracking, hit the BBF once, and it follows the planes, that sounds like tracking to me? Some of these series of photos followed the jets in a 90 degree arc and went from under 200mm out to 300mm or more and of course the jets were bouncing around in EVF, but the tracking did its job. Are there 2 modes of tracking?
Checked the online help guide for the A7RIV and no mention of RTT, just the Tracking Function?
It is confusing because RTT was only referred to in some of the marketing and YT videos. In the user manual and in the camera it is just called Tracking.
On the vertical list of AF modes it is the bottom row of AF modes in the list where you scroll left and right to switch between Wide:Tracking, Zone:Tracking, Center:Tracking, S Flex Spot: Tracking etc.
When Tracking is doing its thing it should show the icon that is a square with a vertical line on either side. However, it frequently can resort back to the dancing squares for fast subjects especially on the A7RIV (and I assume the A7III/A7RIII). The A9 would hold the Tracking icon more often and the A1 holds it even more so. I'm not exactly sure what causes it to resort back to the dancing squares but I assume it is when the system doesn't recognize the subject it initially started to track.
That said, ironically, non-tracking Wide and Zone do a better job "tracking" the moving subject and not getting distracted by backgrounds like trees and rippled water than the Tracking versions do. Even on the A1.
The non-tracking Wide mode will prioritize the centre area of the frame to start tracking and it certainly prioritizes movement and closest subject. The problem with Tracking:Wide is that if the Tracking loses the fast moving subject and starts tracking a non-moving subject (like rippled water) it never recovers where as non-Tracking Wide may drop a frame or two to rippled water but the water isn't moving so it quickly recovers without any user input back to the moving subject. I've tested this 1000x over and it is certainly how it seems to work in my hands with all the Sony bodies I've owned (A9, A7RIV, A9II, A1).
p.2 #17 · A7RIV: No Real-time tracking in Animal Eye-AF?
Thank you @arbitrage for that explanation. I first heard the RTT term when the A6400 was released and Sony said the A7RIV has a version of it, though with a limitation or two. I am using the Zone mode of tracking as you describe above with the square, but occasionally in quick turns or when the jets get farther away, the dancing dots appear. I must say I have been remarkable impressed with the tracking accuracy on the A7RIV. Of course where I live, in the low desert, and shooting jet at the El Centro NAS, also in the low desert, makes for blue skies 85% of the time and the jets are well defined against the background sky. Of maybe 5,000 photos of this type in the year I have had the A7RIV, my hit ratio with regards to sharpness for airplanes/jets is over 90%. My best photo buddy is a long time aviation photographer and Nikon user, he was a Lockheed Aircraft official photographer for over 10 years, and my accuracy and sharpness with my Sony A7RIV and 100-400GM vs. his D850 and 200-500 is driving him mad!
I went back to the El Centro NAS early today and shot with my A7RIV and 100-400GM with tracking on 100% of the time, see photos below. This morning there was a low hanging, light fog/haze covering the southern half of the airfield from when the Blue Angels started at 8AM and for the hour they were up flying. When they were in the soup the skies were not blue, but grey. Another 1,390 photos and again the tracking did its job even with the fog/haze and the hit ratio, with regards to being acceptable sharp in my 1st quick run though of the photos, is again over 90%.
In my very 1st experience with the tracking mode, in the linked post below, I showed how the tracking and the 100-400GM in the APSC crop mode did such a good job with the jets. Nothing has changed since then, so I am a happy camper with this combo and the results of the RTT, and for what I shoot I don't see the need for an A9/A9II with better CA-F AF.
2 photos out of a 10 shot sequence. 1st photo (4/10) taken at 294mm FL, 2nd photo (9/10) taken at 156mm FL 1.8 seconds later. Tracking stayed with the jets as I almost halved the FL with no problem.
