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Archive 2019 · M6 Mark II for wildlife?

  
 
cpe1991
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p.5 #1 · M6 Mark II for wildlife?


ChrisMak wrote:
There is the wish for a camera that will undo the need for big lenses with large apertures, very much in line with the philosophy of m4/3. The 90D is essentially a large m4/3 sensor regarding pixel density. When using a slower and shorter focal length lens like the 100-400II, and use the "cropping power" to zoom in further, you are in fact shooting m4/3. I guess the Canon 90D was born from that wish, but I am not so sure a 32,5mp 1.6 crop sensor would or, for that matter, should make it into a 7DIII. I then would
...Show more
Each to his own. I have a 90D, 5DIV and 5DSR along with a 100-400mm II and 400mm DO II. For bird photography, I find in terms of IQ the 90D + zoom is about the same as the 5DSR + zoom +1.4xTC and the 5DIV + prime + 2xTC, all wide open. It’s much lighter on a hike and much easier to pack as well for travel the zoom plus 90D than the 5DIV plus prime.




Dec 09, 2019 at 11:26 AM
Jeff Nolten
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p.5 #2 · M6 Mark II for wildlife?


ChrisMak wrote:
It's true that images are nowadays not always resized. Mind you though, that most people I know use screens that are full HD, and only tablets and phones are commonly with higher pixel density. But even if we were to all go to 4k, 8k and no doubt, in future 16k, do images then need to be > 6000px because they will be visibly better?


My display is a 5K 27" Retina 220 PPI iMac that has been available since 2015. Like many OLED 4K TVs, it uses a P3 color gamut that exceeds sRGB, similar to Adobe RGB, and directly supported for image export by Lightroom. It requires a 15 MP image cropped 16:9 to fill its frame. An image from an 18 MP 3:2 sensor will just be enough; a 20 MP image allows some cropping for straightening and more allows cropping for reach. I've found my 80D and 5D4 sufficiently feed this display and my cropping needs.

The idea behind a Retina display is that at normal viewing distances the human eye cannot detect individual pixels. I have to use a magnifying glass to see pixel separation. With my bifocals I can view this screen from about 6" and not see any separation. In fact images from my 13 MP original 5D cropped 16:9 and expanded to fill this screen still look good. The resolution of a well shot image is stunning and most of my keeper images can be viewed 100% without loss of sharpness. I can't imagine any serious photographer not viewing their images on a display like this, iMacs cost about the same as a new camera body. I'm sure someone makes 5K displays for Windows.

If Apple were to offer a 30" display with this pixel resolution a higher MP camera might be required but so far they haven't. I find 27" sufficiently large for a desktop. 60" 4K TVs are still "Retina" because they are viewed from farther away. Our 46" full HD (1K) TV looks pretty good, I see the color gamut more than resolution differences. I suspect an OLED 4K TV of about 55" is in our future but can't see much bigger or higher resolution than that ever being necessary. I don't see the application for an 8K TV even if technically possible. I can't see needing a higher resolution computer display than this one. So therefore I can't see needing higher resolution cameras. IMHO

If the higher resolution of my M6II is useable compared to the 24 MP sensors, it will be to get more reach out of smaller lenses like the 55-250 or 70-300 II. The M's pixel density is still on probation. I've found my 100-400 with possibly 1.4x sufficient for my travel needs but can understand other's needs for more reach/performance.



Dec 09, 2019 at 12:06 PM
ChrisMak
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p.5 #3 · M6 Mark II for wildlife?


Jeff Nolten wrote:
My display is a 5K 27" Retina 220 PPI iMac that has been available since 2015. Like many OLED 4K TVs, it uses a P3 color gamut that exceeds sRGB, similar to Adobe RGB, and directly supported for image export by Lightroom. It requires a 15 MP image cropped 16:9 to fill its frame. An image from an 18 MP 3:2 sensor will just be enough; a 20 MP image allows some cropping for straightening and more allows cropping for reach. I've found my 80D and 5D4 sufficiently feed this display and my cropping needs.

The idea behind a Retina
...Show more

Perhaps what is to be taken away from this, is that the display you view your images on, may well contribute to your preference for a specific camera. I am still on an Eizo CG223W, which is 1650px wide. Seeing a 800 iso image from the 90D at 100% on this screen is no joy, and although the noise clears up pretty well, and get's far less objectional at resized format, it is still far more comfortable to work with a 24mp Sony sensor, or with the 30mp EOS-R sensor. And resized, the benefit of the 32,5 1.6x APS-C sensor is pretty much obscured. I have not printed images from the 90D though, as I doubt that high a resolution is needed for A3+, which is what I print at. And still I maintain, that cropping a 400mm lens on the 90D to make it a 800mm lens will not get the same kind of image quality as a 800mm lens (with converter) on a FF sensor.



Dec 09, 2019 at 12:52 PM
technic
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p.5 #4 · M6 Mark II for wildlife?


ChrisMak wrote:
There is the wish for a camera that will undo the need for big lenses with large apertures, very much in line with the philosophy of m4/3. The 90D is essentially a large m4/3 sensor regarding pixel density. When using a slower and shorter focal length lens like the 100-400II, and use the "cropping power" to zoom in further, you are in fact shooting m4/3. I guess the Canon 90D was born from that wish, but I am not so sure a 32,5mp 1.6 crop sensor would or, for that matter, should make it into a 7DIII. I then would
...Show more

I agree with you. I meant high pixel density compared to a camera like the Sony A9. I'm fine with 20-24 MP on APS-C but for a ML FF camera that would be 40-50MP and none of those are ready for action yet. Of course if the penalty of more pixels on DR and High ISO performance (and performance in general) is very minor then I would love to have those extra pixels.

For action, I don't even see much advantage in my 80D compared to the far older 450D because in most cases the theoretical resolution cannot be realized due to focus accuracy limits, too slow AF (I'm using MF with both) and fast subject motion. For a better camera all those factors need to be balanced. W'll see where that rumored EOS R II gets us, or maybe a Nikon Z70



Dec 09, 2019 at 02:02 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.5 #5 · M6 Mark II for wildlife?


ChrisMak wrote:
Perhaps what is to be taken away from this, is that the display you view your images on, may well contribute to your preference for a specific camera.


A couple of observations. Your display is probably significantly less than 4 MP. Viewing 20 to 30 MP images is certainly losing a lot of available resolution. Also, when you view your images at 100% they are so enlarged that noise is emphasized. Your display enlarges an 80D image 3.64x while mine (the other extreme) enlarges 1.17x. I assume you print because otherwise current cameras are overkill for your display. I would gently suggest you consider investing in a higher resolution display. I think this would make a big difference in your viewing enjoyment.

You may not need a display as large as mine (5120 px) but I would suggest looking for one with close to 200 PPI resolution. At this resolution fine grain pixel level noise tends to blend and become less noticeable or perhaps more natural. When viewing the entire image you are seeing much more of the detail the camera is capable of and much closer to what you will see in a print. I don't print, my display is my output device and 24 to 30 MP cameras suite my needs well. Probably wouldn't need more than 12 MP for an iPad Pro.

OTOH there is only so far that pixel blending to reduce noise can work and if an image is noticeably noisy displayed at 100% reducing its display size doesn't help much. Perhaps WEB size of 800 pixels or so. This is why I've long held the opinion that if you can't process an image to look sharp and with pleasant noise viewed at 100% you have too many pixels or too high an ISO. I'm mostly speaking of recent sensors, with current software that processes noise pretty well, and with a sufficiently detailed display. Input and output need to be somewhat balanced.



Dec 09, 2019 at 04:56 PM
davev
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p.5 #6 · M6 Mark II for wildlife?


cpe1991 wrote:
Thanks Dave for such a helpful reply. Regarding Sony, it encapsulates the signals that come out of the Sony forums if you struggle to find them. I’m happy with the ergonomics of the 90D and I really like the liveview, but I feel there is room for improvement with the DSLR AF. So, how do you find the AF for birds in flight in absolute terms and relative to Sony - you are in a fairly unique position to compare.


Birds in flight are kind of tough to find in Minnesota during the winter months, when it's -10F. (tomorrow)

The only birds flying are eagles, swans, and some ducks that winter in parks that have spring fed water or flowing rivers.
So my chances of really trying the BIF thing probably isn't real good.

The eagle shots that I have put up are of two trips that one eagle has made, 10 minutes apart.
The conditions where not good that day from heat waves affecting the shots. (there was water between me and the bird, I had
trouble just shooting a standing bird through the waves)

I think it will do ok, but ... Canon is up to their old tricks again and taking a function away that I had on my 80D.
There was a button that you could just to toggle through the different focus areas. (spot, wide, zone, etc)
On the M6II, you can set a button to bring up the menu, then you need to turn a dial to get to what you what, instead of just pressing
it more times to get to the area that you need.
That was my favorite function of the 80D, The fact that I could be using spot focus for a bird sitting in a tree, and
with the push of one button, change it up for flight shots.

The other thing is the buffer. At 14 frames per second, if action starts to happen, you can fill the buffer pretty quick.
Even if you do a bunch of short bursts, you may still run out of room. (but, I shoot like a crazy person when I do flight shots)

I tried the raw burst thing. It's sounds like a great Idea, and it is. It' just not implemented very well.
If you do a burst, and want to pull a shot from it, do it right away. The camera saves the shot at the end of all the shots you've taken to that point.
So if you extract one right away, no problem. But if you wait, take a hundred more shots, then go back to pull a file, the camera thinks you just took a photo
and sends you to the end of the image line. No problem if you only wanted one photo from the set, but what if you wanted 2 or more,
Then you have to scroll back, open up the set again, find the next shot yo want to extract, save it, then repeat for more.

Now like I say, I've only used this camera a couple of times, and there may be things I'm missing that may make those of my complaints go away.
Time will tell.
If I figure anything out, I'll let you folks know.



Dec 09, 2019 at 09:00 PM
alundeb
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p.5 #7 · M6 Mark II for wildlife?


davev wrote:
I think it will do ok, but ... Canon is up to their old tricks again and taking a function away that I had on my 80D.
There was a button that you could just to toggle through the different focus areas. (spot, wide, zone, etc)
On the M6II, you can set a button to bring up the menu, then you need to turn a dial to get to what you what, instead of just pressing
it more times to get to the area that you need.
That was my favorite function of the 80D, The fact that I could be using spot focus
...Show more

Can you not use the M-Fn button to toggle directly between the focus point modes?



Dec 10, 2019 at 03:04 AM
davev
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p.5 #8 · M6 Mark II for wildlife?


alundeb wrote:
Can you not use the M-Fn button to toggle directly between the focus point modes?


And you are correct, Yes you can toggle by using that button.
Like I said, I'm new to this camera also.

Thank you.



Dec 10, 2019 at 09:42 AM
chavourkar
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p.5 #9 · M6 Mark II for wildlife?


some high ISO shots of humming birds
https://pbase.com/chavourkar/image/170198618
https://pbase.com/chavourkar/image/170198617
https://pbase.com/chavourkar/image/170198619



Dec 17, 2019 at 10:23 PM
CyberDyne
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p.5 #10 · M6 Mark II for wildlife?


So now that the fallacy that DPAF isn't up to the task of action oriented photography has been firmly demolished by the R5 and R6,. I have to assume that the Optical VF DSLR cult will be less likely to knee-jerk dis this beast of a little camera.

So a year later I'd like to ask again,.

Anyone shooting the M6 II for wildlife? How does it compare?
I'm reading the rumors and fantasies of an EOS R7 where the same 90D 32MP sensor is being asked for. Is this it?
Have we had it for over a year already?



Jan 07, 2021 at 12:32 AM
CyberDyne
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p.5 #11 · M6 Mark II for wildlife?


Visceral Image wrote:
I am reading a lot of speculation here and not a lot of facts, so I thought I would inject some facts.

The M6 Mark II has autofocusing capabilities that legitimately rival and potentially surpass what I can get on my 1DX Mark II. I began using it for recreational bird photography the moment I bought mine to snap photos when I'm walking my dog around the lake behind our house. It has difficulties in some conditions like back lighting silhouette shots when using the smallest AF point size, but if it can lock onto a subject in any tracking
...Show more

Hmm, this IS promising! Thank you!



Jan 07, 2021 at 12:33 AM
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