Fred Miranda wrote:
Same here. The vignetting does not bother me either, but it could be an issue for astro. Hopefully it will have a decent coma performance at f/2.
If the vignetting is more prominent than the Loxia 21 when stopped down, that would be reason enough for me to stick with the Loxia, as would reduced flare resistance. Sharpness seems not be a delineating factor from what I see in Fred's shots.
Nevertheless, an intriguing aspect of this release from Voigtlander is the suggestion that they may well be company to look to for a high-performance but moderately sized 15mm F2.8 in the not too distant future (given they released a fast 21 despite already having a slow one on the market, maybe the same will happen with the 15mm/4.5).
** p.s. The issue of ergonomics of the Loxias, as raised by other members, is imo easily solved with the addition of a cheap pocketpano lens-grip.
rvh23 wrote:
...they may well be company to look to for a high-performance but moderately sized 15mm F2.8 in the not too distant future (given they released a fast 21 despite already having a slow one on the market, maybe the same will happen with the 15mm/4.5).
I hope you're right! A VC 15mm ƒ2.8 would be a dream lens for me.
Oh man....a CV15/2.8 taking filters would be really a dream and at that point I would sell my GM 16-35 and go all primes CV12, CV15/2.8, CV21/3.5, CV40
Jul 08, 2019 at 11:43 PM
imagesfromobjects Offline • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
Fred Miranda wrote
Yes, the Loxia impressed me as well competing neck and neck with a much faster lens. If it wasn't for the Loxia's field curvature, these lenses would perform very close.
.
Honestly, from what I see, I think the Nokton and the Loxia do perform very close indeed.
I'm concerned that the CV is not as well made as the Loxia.....
I have seen many posts suggesting large copy variation and difficulting gettings repairs.
Zeiss seems to enjoy a great reputation and the fact that the American service center is right up the road from me has me thinking it is the safer choice.
Fred's images at 1.4 are great though; looks like a fun lens with great rendering.
Do you all (Americans) tend to buy from B&H or Cameraquest?
Yeah probably who has the Loxia is not hard pressed to replace it with this CV but if someone is looking to buy one I don’t see reasons to go with the Loxia...the CV is a better overall package for less dollars.
DaveFP wrote:
I'm concerned that the CV is not as well made as the Loxia.....
I have seen many posts suggesting large copy variation and difficulting gettings repairs.
Zeiss seems to enjoy a great reputation and the fact that the American service center is right up the road from me has me thinking it is the safer choice.
Fred's images at 1.4 are great though; looks like a fun lens with great rendering.
Do you all (Americans) tend to buy from B&H or Cameraquest?
The company manufacturing Voigtlander, Cosina, is well known for manufacturing both Leica and Zeiss lenses.
The current Voigtlander design is an improved version (the knurled focus ring being the main improvement) of the Classic Zeiss lenses. If you hold a Classic 15 or 135 against a Milvus 13 or 135, the difference is immediately apparent - the "old" designs look and feel so much better, much more refined and high-quality.
My Voigtlander 110 feels right at home next to my Zeiss ZE 15 Classic - same materials, same feeling.
For me the Voigtlanders are a serious upgrade to the Loxia lenses (which I've owned and used extensively), in terms of build quality and ergonomics.
rvh23 wrote:
If the vignetting is more prominent than the Loxia 21 when stopped down, that would be reason enough for me to stick with the Loxia, as would reduced flare resistance. Sharpness seems not be a delineating factor from what I see in Fred's shots.
Nevertheless, an intriguing aspect of this release from Voigtlander is the suggestion that they may well be company to look to for a high-performance but moderately sized 15mm F2.8 in the not too distant future (given they released a fast 21 despite already having a slow one on the market, maybe the same will happen with the 15mm/4.5).
** p.s. The issue of ergonomics of the Loxias, as raised by other members, is imo easily solved with the addition of a cheap pocketpano lens-grip. ...Show more →
Not sure what your definition of "moderately sized" is but the Lawoa 15mm F2 is an excellent lens.
Just something about the colors the CV lenses produce right out of camera that just make them hard to stay away from. Wish they would make some AF lenses some day
nazdravanul wrote:
The company manufacturing Voigtlander, Cosina, is well known for manufacturing both Leica and Zeiss lenses.
The current Voigtlander design is an improved version (the knurled focus ring being the main improvement) of the Classic Zeiss lenses. If you hold a Classic 15 or 135 against a Milvus 13 or 135, the difference is immediately apparent - the "old" designs look and feel so much better, much more refined and high-quality.
My Voigtlander 110 feels right at home next to my Zeiss ZE 15 Classic - same materials, same feeling.
For me the Voigtlanders are a serious upgrade to the Loxia lenses (which I've owned and used extensively), in terms of build quality and ergonomics. ...Show more →
Cosina is well known for making lenses in the M-mount, but I do not believe that they have made lenses under the Leica Banner name. Kyocera who made the Yashica and Contax cameras and lenses on the other hand made amongst other lenses the Leica R 35-70mm f4 Vario Elmar and Leica R 80-200mm f4 Vario Elmar lenses that were very well thought of.
nazdravanul wrote:
The company manufacturing Voigtlander, Cosina, is well known for manufacturing both Leica and Zeiss lenses.
The current Voigtlander design is an improved version (the knurled focus ring being the main improvement) of the Classic Zeiss lenses. If you hold a Classic 15 or 135 against a Milvus 13 or 135, the difference is immediately apparent - the "old" designs look and feel so much better, much more refined and high-quality.
My Voigtlander 110 feels right at home next to my Zeiss ZE 15 Classic - same materials, same feeling.
For me the Voigtlanders are a serious upgrade to the Loxia lenses (which I've owned and used extensively), in terms of build quality and ergonomics. ...Show more →
I am not aware of any Leica lens that is made by Cosina.
I have shot Zeiss for many years and currently own a substantial number of them including Classics, Loxia, and Batis.
I also dislike the Milvus and Batis designs but I am not sure that they are lacking in quality.
What makes the CVs a "serious upgrade" to the Loxia line?
Volkswagen makes both Porsche and Audi but Audi does not enjoy the reputation that Porsche has when it comes to build quality and that is what concerns me.
"IQ" aside; will they hold up as well over time and if/when I need service is it available?
naturephoto1 wrote:
Cosina is well known for making lenses in the M-mount, but I do not believe that they have made lenses under the Leica Banner name. Kyocera who made the Yashica and Contax cameras and lenses on the other hand made amongst other lenses the Leica R 35-70mm f4 Vario Elmar and Leica R 80-200mm f4 Vario Elmar lenses that were very well thought of.
Rich
From their Wikipedia page:
"Lenses:
Cosina manufactures manual focus SLR lenses for Carl Zeiss AG with: Leica (ZM),[4] Nikon (ZF), Pentax (ZK), Canon EOS (ZE), and M42 (ZS) lens screw mounts."
Indeed, only Carl Zeiss branded lenses are mentioned, not Leica. Well, that should be enough, for an indication of build quality capabilities
DaveFP wrote:
I am not aware of any Leica lens that is made by Cosina.
I have shot Zeiss for many years and currently own a substantial number of them including Classics, Loxia, and Batis.
I also dislike the Milvus and Batis designs but I am not sure that they are lacking in quality.
What makes the CVs a "serious upgrade" to the Loxia line?
Volkswagen makes both Porsche and Audi but Audi does enjoy the reputation that Porsche has when it comes to build quality and that is what concerns me.
"IQ" aside; will they hold up as well over time and if/when I need service is it available?
The upgrade comes from 2 areas, ergonomics and perceived build quality.
1. Ergonomics:
-the knurled focus ring makes for a perfect tactile experience, there is no way of fiddling to find it, with gloves (or not)
-the aperture ring position: no problem mounting / dismounting the lens, no problem accidentally changing aperture when fiddling to find focus
-the dampening of the focus ring feels slightly better on the Voigtlander vs the Loxias (Batis are atrocious for MF)
-the knurled focus ring has an added benefit: when placing the lens horizontally on a flat surface, there is no chance of the lens rolling down (off a table or something similar)
-the hood is both a pro and a con; the fact that you can't reverse it for storage is a pain in the backside. The fact that you can use a polariser with the hood on, and easily adjust the polariser by rotating the hood, is a definite plus.
2. Perceived build quality:
The Voigtlander's choice of metal and finishes simply feels like a special, higher quality product. The Loxias are a bit muted, a bit ordinary, by comparison.
Again, that's my personal experience, after using / owning most of them, extensively.
And a separate note on IQ: the Voigtlander have more consistently a "magic sauce" that used to be very common with older Zeiss designs, but not so common with recent designs.
My only remaining modern Zeiss lenses are the 15 ZE Classic, 28 Otus and 55 Otus. With these exceptions, I would shoot a Voigtlander 21, 40, 65 and 110, before anything else (of course, unless I need tilt-shift, focus stacking, AF etc.)
nazdravanul wrote:
The upgrade comes from 2 areas, ergonomics and perceived build quality.
1. Ergonomics:
-the knurled focus ring makes for a perfect tactile experience, there is no way of fiddling to find it, with gloves (or not)
-the aperture ring position: no problem mounting / dismounting the lens, no problem accidentally changing aperture when fiddling to find focus
-the dampening of the focus ring feels slightly better on the Voigtlander vs the Loxias (Batis are atrocious for MF)
-the knurled focus ring has an added benefit: when placing the lens horizontally on a flat surface, there is no chance of the lens rolling down (off a table or something similar)
-the hood is both a pro and a con; the fact that you can't reverse it for storage is a pain in the backside. The fact that you can use a polariser with the hood on, and easily adjust the polariser by rotating the hood, is a definite plus.
2. Perceived build quality:
The Voigtlander's choice of metal and finishes simply feels like a special, higher quality product. The Loxias are a bit muted, a bit ordinary, by comparison.
Again, that's my personal experience, after using / owning most of them, extensively.
And a separate note on IQ: the Voigtlander have more consistently a "magic sauce" that used to be very common with older Zeiss designs, but not so common with recent designs.
My only remaining modern Zeiss lenses are the 15 ZE Classic, 28 Otus and 55 Otus. With these exceptions, I would shoot a Voigtlander 21, 40, 65 and 110, before anything else (of course, unless I need tilt-shift, focus stacking, AF etc.) ...Show more →
rvh23 wrote:
If the vignetting is more prominent than the Loxia 21 when stopped down, that would be reason enough for me to stick with the Loxia, as would reduced flare resistance. Sharpness seems not be a delineating factor from what I see in Fred's shots.
Nevertheless, an intriguing aspect of this release from Voigtlander is the suggestion that they may well be company to look to for a high-performance but moderately sized 15mm F2.8 in the not too distant future (given they released a fast 21 despite already having a slow one on the market, maybe the same will happen with the 15mm/4.5).
** p.s. The issue of ergonomics of the Loxias, as raised by other members, is imo easily solved with the addition of a cheap pocketpano lens-grip. ...Show more →
So far, the CV 21/1.4 seems to have very good flare resistance but I have not compared it side by side to the Loxia 21. Their aberration control is similar as well (perhaps very slightly more lateral CA for the CV). To me personally, flare performance will decide which lens I will keep. (CV or Loxia 21) as both lenses are amazing for landscapes. The Voigtlander performs better at infinity from f/2.8 to f/4 due to being flat field but the Loxia's size and weight is an advantage.
Regarding ergonomics, I agree that the pocketpano lens-grip add-on saved the Loxia line. I have it installed in all my Loxias and it solved the mounting/un-mounting struggle in a very elegant (and cheap) way.
DaveFP wrote:
I am not aware of any Leica lens that is made by Cosina.
I have shot Zeiss for many years and currently own a substantial number of them including Classics, Loxia, and Batis.
I also dislike the Milvus and Batis designs but I am not sure that they are lacking in quality.
What makes the CVs a "serious upgrade" to the Loxia line?
Volkswagen makes both Porsche and Audi but Audi does enjoy the reputation that Porsche has when it comes to build quality and that is what concerns me.
"IQ" aside; will they hold up as well over time and if/when I need service is it available?
...Show more →
Some of the CV M lenses had shoddy construction in the past but it seems they have improved it greatly now. I do agree that just because they make lenses for Zeiss, it doesn't mean that their lenses will be up to the same standards. Nonetheless, expensive Leica and Zeiss don't mean they don't break either or that you have a guaranteed speedy service. If you buy CV here in the States from Stephen Gandy, I heard he has an in house technician. That might just beat sending the lens to Japan for a quick repair.
Fred Miranda wrote:
So far, the CV 21/1.4 seems to have very good flare resistance but I have not compared it side by side to the Loxia 21. Their aberration control is similar as well (perhaps very slightly more lateral CA for the CV). To me personally, flare performance will decide which lens I will keep. (CV or Loxia 21) as both lenses are amazing for landscapes. The Voigtlander performs better at infinity from f/2.8 to f/4 due to being flat field but the Loxia's size and weight is an advantage.
Regarding ergonomics, I agree that the pocketpano lens-grip add-on saved the Loxia line. I have it installed in all my Loxias and it solved the mounting/un-mounting struggle in a very elegant (and cheap) way....Show more →
Looking forward to that comparison !
Jul 09, 2019 at 10:27 AM
imagesfromobjects Offline • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
I dunno, I've seen quite a few issues with Zeiss mentioned also. Just Google "Zeiss wobble" and you'll see what I'm talking about. Hard to say if one is worse than the other. DaveFP wrote:
I'm concerned that the CV is not as well made as the Loxia.....
I have seen many posts suggesting large copy variation and difficulting gettings repairs.
Zeiss seems to enjoy a great reputation and the fact that the American service center is right up the road from me has me thinking it is the safer choice.
Fred's images at 1.4 are great though; looks like a fun lens with great rendering.
Do you all (Americans) tend to buy from B&H or Cameraquest?
