Grenache wrote:
Thanks, Fred. I understand your point and own some Meyer and Biotar lenses wherein there is a narrow region of focus and a lot of veiling or curvature outside of that. The zoomed in view you show indeed shows there are areas less blurry than others, but this looks like a lens built around the gimmick of being able to call it “f/1” but usable only at f/2?…rather than the Voigtlander, TTArtisan, etc, that perform reasonably well wide open and improve stopped down.
True, some of those mentioned are much more expensive.
Jim
“useable” is a pretty subjective label there Jim. I enjoy the f1 images and find them usable. There are plenty of better corrected options—this offers something unique in size and rendering.
I’d love to get my hands on this for b/w portraits in subdued/soft light.
nehemiahphoto wrote:
“useable” is a pretty subjective label there Jim. I enjoy the f1 images and find them usable. There are plenty of better corrected options—this offers something unique in size and rendering.
I’d love to get my hands on this for b/w portraits in subdued/soft light.
Same here! I got it for the f1 look and do not plan to make it very "usable" most of the time.
I am really excited to try it on my M3 with b&w film.
Today I picked up the new Voigtlander 75mm f1.8 Heliar Portrait with the SA control ring, and it is impressive how closely the image resembles the MS Optics 50/1 look when turning the ring toward the “over correction” side. It basically overcorrects the OOF background, creating noticeable structure and outlining, while adding spherical aberration in the focus area with a beautiful glow.
Absolutely. To each his own. MS-Optics has a rich history. The other f/1s just looked more like f/1 Nocts to my eye. This one looks more like the 50/1.5, which I own and enjoy for its imperfections. I just like it when imperfections cost me $350 and not $1k or more.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Thanks for your comment. I understand that this kind of rendering is not something everyone connects with... The MS-Optics 50mm f1.0 wide open has a very distinctive look with veiling, low contrast, and a softer presentation. That comes from being intentionally uncorrected in ways most modern lenses are not.
But things are actually in focus. If you look closely, there is fine detail there, just not delivered in the usual high contrast way. It is a different style of rendering, more about atmosphere and mood than clinical sharpness. Photography is all about expression and interpretation, and I respect that not every lens or look will resonate with everyone....Show more →
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nehemiahphoto wrote:
“useable” is a pretty subjective label there Jim. I enjoy the f1 images and find them usable. There are plenty of better corrected options—this offers something unique in size and rendering.
I’d love to get my hands on this for b/w portraits in subdued/soft light.
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Fred Miranda wrote:
Same here! I got it for the f1 look and do not plan to make it very "usable" most of the time.
I am really excited to try it on my M3 with b&w film.
Quite so! This high resolution / low contrast wide open characteristic of some of the MS-Optics lenses is an enticing prospect, although I completely appreciate that this combination is not to everyone's liking.
I’ve taken the liberty of quoting parts of three recent posts by @Fred Miranda and @nehemiahphoto . This is exactly what I am hoping will be the case with the 1.3/36 Apollon, for both B&W and film (although not so specifically for portraits). So I'm greatly looking forward to using on my M3, too (just as soon as it's back from having the shutter fettled ….).
Andrew CD wrote:
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Quite so! This high resolution / low contrast wide open characteristic of some of the MS-Optics lenses is an enticing prospect, although I completely appreciate that this combination is not to everyone's liking.
I’ve taken the liberty of quoting parts of three recent posts by @Fred Miranda@ and @nehemiahphoto@ . This is exactly what I am hoping will be the case with the 1.3/36 Apollon, for both B&W and film (although not so specifically for portraits). So I'm greatly looking forward to using on my M3, too (just as soon as it's back from having the shutter fettled ….).
Andrew,
You are absolutely right with your comparison. The MS Optics 36mm f/1.3 Apollon renders similarly to the 50mm f/1 ISM, except the SA is slightly less corrected in the out of focus areas, which results in a bit less outlining. They both produce a similar glow when shot wide open. It is one of my favorites, but unfortunately, like the 50mm f/1 ISM, it was not produced in large numbers and has become quite rare today.
This morning we had a small early birthday celebration for my 13-year-old son with just the family, and I figured it was a good chance to test the MS Optics 50/1 ISM on my Sony A7CR using EyeAF with the Techart LM-EA9 adapter. Since the lens is so light, the adapter focused quickly and accurately...even outside the center area using AF-C Wide. I'd say about 90% of the shots were keepers out of the 50 I took.
I'm really happy with the results. Compared to my other heavier 50/1 or 50/1.2 lenses, this setup delivered much more consistent focus even though he was jumping all over the place. Here are a few samples:
ILCE-7CRTECHART LM-EA9 lens50mmf/2.01/400s400 ISO0.0 EV
ILCE-7CRTECHART LM-EA9 lens50mmf/2.01/400s500 ISO0.0 EV
ILCE-7CRTECHART LM-EA9 lens50mmf/2.01/400s1000 ISO0.0 EV
ILCE-7CRTECHART LM-EA9 lens50mmf/2.01/400s1000 ISO0.0 EV
ILCE-7CRTECHART LM-EA9 lens50mmf/2.01/400s1000 ISO0.0 EV
ILCE-7CRTECHART LM-EA9 lens50mmf/2.01/400s640 ISO0.0 EV
ILCE-7CRTECHART LM-EA9 lens50mmf/2.01/400s640 ISO0.0 EV
Fred Miranda wrote:
This morning we had a small early birthday celebration for my 13-year-old son with just the family, and I figured it was a good chance to test the MS Optics 50/1 ISM on my Sony A7CR using EyeAF with the Techart LM-EA9 adapter. Since the lens is so light, the adapter focused quickly and accurately...even outside the center area using AF-C Wide. I'd say about 90% of the shots were keepers out of the 50 I took.
I'm really happy with the results. Compared to my other heavier 50/1 or 50/1.2 lenses, this setup delivered much more consistent focus even though he was jumping all over the place. Here are a few samples:...Show more →
A few more shots with the MS Optics 50/1 ISM on the Sony A7CR using the EA9 AF adapter. EyeAF was enabled with AF-C tracking set to WIDE.
Shooting this type of lens at wide apertures in harsh light usually isn't ideal because of the exaggerated glow, but I wanted to test how well the autofocus handled more than just static or slow-moving subjects. Most of the shots were taken with the subject in motion (skateboard), and the last three involved fast movement.
ILCE-7CRTECHART LM-EA9 lens50mmf/2.01/4000s100 ISO0.0 EV
ILCE-7CRTECHART LM-EA9 lens50mmf/2.01/4000s100 ISO0.0 EV
ILCE-7CRTECHART LM-EA9 lens50mmf/2.01/4000s100 ISO0.0 EV
ILCE-7CRTECHART LM-EA9 lens50mmf/2.01/4000s100 ISO0.0 EV
ILCE-7CRTECHART LM-EA9 lens50mmf/2.01/4000s100 ISO0.0 EV
ILCE-7CRTECHART LM-EA9 lens50mmf/2.01/4000s100 ISO0.0 EV
ILCE-7CRTECHART LM-EA9 lens50mmf/2.01/4000s100 ISO0.0 EV
ILCE-7CRTECHART LM-EA9 lens50mmf/2.01/4000s100 ISO0.0 EV
ILCE-7CRTECHART LM-EA9 lens50mmf/2.01/4000s100 ISO0.0 EV
ILCE-7CRTECHART LM-EA9 lens50mmf/2.01/1000s100 ISO0.0 EV
ILCE-7CRTECHART LM-EA9 lens50mmf/2.01/1000s100 ISO0.0 EV
ILCE-7CRTECHART LM-EA9 lens50mmf/2.01/800s100 ISO0.0 EV
Fred Miranda wrote:
A few more shots with the MS Optics 50/1 ISM on the Sony A7CR using the EA9 AF adapter. EyeAF was enabled with AF-C tracking set to WIDE.
Shooting this type of lens at wide apertures in harsh light usually isn't ideal because of the exaggerated glow, but I wanted to test how well the autofocus handled more than just static or slow-moving subjects. Most of the shots were taken with the subject in motion (skateboard), and the last three involved fast movement.
I've been also very happy and surprised with strong wide open AF performance of my fast 50mm and longer MS-Optics lenses on LM-EA9, including Sonnetar 50/1.3, Elnomaxim 55/1.2, Sonnetar 73/1.5.
Some of the slow MS-Optics lenses like H-Prot 40/6.3 could not AF reliably on the same adapter at all, and Vario Petz 57/2 showed a lot of false positive AF locking at the overcorrected SA settings. Would be interesting to understand what exact lens characteristics make it work well vs. badly.
Fred Miranda wrote:
Andrew,
You are absolutely right with your comparison. The MS Optics 36mm f/1.3 Apollon renders similarly to the 50mm f/1 ISM, except the SA is slightly less corrected in the out of focus areas, which results in a bit less outlining. They both produce a similar glow when shot wide open. It is one of my favorites, but unfortunately, like the 50mm f/1 ISM, it was not produced in large numbers and has become quite rare today.
Thanks, Fred. I’m encouraged to hear that. I realise that many (most?) of the MS-Optics lenses that are now out of production are pretty thin on the ground, the Apollon included, but I’m keeping my fingers crossed!
@Andrew CD One popped up on KEH about a 2 months back but I returned it (had another copy when it launched) due to it not being in the described condition (though still perfectly fine with good ergo and glass) and that I prefer the 35 Lux pre-asph.
If you’re diligent and know where to look, you can still find copies
nehemiahphoto wrote:
@Andrew CD@ One popped up on KEH about a 2 months back but I returned it (had another copy when it launched) due to it not being in the described condition (though still perfectly fine with good ergo and glass) and that I prefer the 35 Lux pre-asph.
If you’re diligent and know where to look, you can still find copies
Thank you for taking the time to post this. It’s useful to hear.
It seems Map Camera got two MS-Optics 36/1.3 Apollon Silver lenses in the past week on different days but both times they were sold almost immediately on the day of arrival. I only saw the entries after they were already sold so not sure how much they were charging for them now, but I would guess somewhere around 130K yen based on earlier listings I've seen. They would be cheap compared to various auction sites where the asking prices have gone up to ~270K yen recently... I think some resellers probably buy them as soon as they appear at Map. Anyhow, it shows that some chances could be there to find one at a more reasonable price if buyer gets very lucky with timing.
Leica M10-P with the MS Optics 50mm f/1.0 ISM. Minimal editing using the M10 profile.
All shots were taken wide open at f/1.0. This time I used a Leica 55mm UV filter on the lens, which didn't add any noticeable vignetting, at least at these shooting distances.
LEICA M10-PMS-Optics 50mm f/1.0 ISM lens50mmf/1.01/1500s200 ISO0.0 EV
LEICA M10-PMS-Optics 50mm f/1.0 ISM lens50mmf/1.01/1000s200 ISO0.0 EV
LEICA M10-PMS-Optics 50mm f/1.0 ISM lens50mmf/1.01/2000s200 ISO0.0 EV
Sun backlight right above the frame
LEICA M10-PMS-Optics 50mm f/1.0 ISM lens50mmf/1.21/1000s200 ISO0.0 EV
Took the M10-P with the MS Optics 50mm f/1.0 ISM out for a walk today under harsh midday sun to see how it handles vignetting with a 3-stop ND filter. I was honestly surprised -- while there is visible vignetting wide open, it's well controlled and not mechanical when using the filter. To my eyes, vingnetting is the same without the filter and adds to the charm. Out of all my MS Optics lenses between 50mm and 73mm, this one is easily my favorite.
I also noticed the focus plane appears undercorrected for spherical aberration, while the background is overcorrected, creating a look that reminds me of the Leica Thambar...but with much better control. It feels like a "modern" Thambar in the best way.
Surprisingly, axial chromatic aberration is also well controlled for a f/1.0 lens. I used a B+W ND filter which does not shift the color at all.
All images were shot wide open and are straight out of the camera using the M10-P with the "Leica M10" profile in Lightroom.
LEICA M10-PMS-Optics 50mm f/1.0 ISM lens50mmf/4.01/500s200 ISO-0.3 EV
LEICA M10-PMS-Optics 50mm f/1.0 ISM lens50mmf/3.41/2000s200 ISO-0.3 EV
LEICA M10-PMS-Optics 50mm f/1.0 ISM lens50mmf/6.81/750s200 ISO-0.3 EV
LEICA M10-PMS-Optics 50mm f/1.0 ISM lens50mmf/4.81/500s200 ISO-0.3 EV
LEICA M10-PMS-Optics 50mm f/1.0 ISM lens50mmf/4.81/750s200 ISO-0.3 EV
LEICA M10-PMS-Optics 50mm f/1.0 ISM lens50mmf/3.41/500s200 ISO-0.3 EV
LEICA M10-PMS-Optics 50mm f/1.0 ISM lens50mmf/2.81/180s200 ISO-0.3 EV
LEICA M10-PMS-Optics 50mm f/1.0 ISM lens50mmf/3.41/1500s200 ISO-0.3 EV
LEICA M10-PMS-Optics 50mm f/1.0 ISM lens50mmf/1.71/4000s200 ISO-0.3 EV
LEICA M10-PMS-Optics 50mm f/1.0 ISM lens50mmf/2.01/2000s200 ISO-0.3 EV
LEICA M10-PMS-Optics 50mm f/1.0 ISM lens50mmf/3.41/750s200 ISO-0.3 EV
It came as a 5-pack for that price. Since Tiffen filters aren't known for the best IQ, I replaced the original glass with high-quality B+W 55mm UV and 3-stop ND filters I already had. They fit perfectly, and now the rim matches the lens while maintaining excellent optical quality and without shifting colors.
Since the slim filters didn't cause extra vignetting, I also repurposed an old 58mm circular polarizer by dismantling it and fitting the glass into the Tiffen frame. I had to grind the edge slightly to make it fit, but it worked. I positioned the polarizer for near maximum effect when the filter is fully attached to the lens, but I can loosen it slightly to reduce polarization as needed.
Here's a wide open (f/1.0) test shot with the C-Pol fully on, showing close to max polarization. Vignetting is pretty normal here too, which didn't surprise me.
LEICA M10-PMS-Optics 50mm f/1.0 ISM lens50mmf/1.71/4000s200 ISO-0.3 EV
Fred Miranda wrote:
Took the M10-P with the MS Optics 50mm f/1.0 ISM out for a walk today under harsh midday sun to see how it handles vignetting with a 3-stop ND filter. I was honestly surprised -- while there is visible vignetting wide open, it's well controlled and not mechanical when using the filter. To my eyes, vingnetting is the same without the filter and adds to the charm. Out of all my MS Optics lenses between 50mm and 73mm, this one is easily my favorite.
I also noticed the focus plane appears undercorrected for spherical aberration, while the background is overcorrected, creating a look that reminds me of the Leica Thambar...but with much better control. It feels like a "modern" Thambar in the best way.
Surprisingly, axial chromatic aberration is also well controlled for a f/1.0 lens. I used a B+W ND filter which does not shift the color at all.
All images were shot wide open and are straight out of the camera using the M10-P with the "Leica M10" profile in Lightroom....Show more →
I'm liking the rendering of the out of focus areas for a lot of these flower shots. That first one of the yellow flowers is the look I like to go for. Very nice.
