TheJackBurton wrote:
I’m sure you’ve heard of the LINK by now. I’ve been shooting with all Godox stuff for years and haven’t had any issues with my batteries. Mostly… I’ve heard people have issues if their lights fall into not being used for a long time and they leave the batteries attached to the lights. The batteries suffer from this, and should be periodically charged if you’re going a long time without shooting. Optimal charge is somewhere between 20-80%, with about 50% being how they should be stored between shoots typically.
What a hilarious pain in the ass; I hope nobody accepts this as reasonable from modern gear in 2020.
“Have you been caring for them properly? The maintenance guide requires that you take these batteries out only by the light of the moon, and massage them weekly so they’re in a good mood when being used. If you haven’t tickled or petted your Godox battery in a few days, it’s really your fault it’s failing.”
Yeezus, glad I didn’t go Godox when I replaced all my strobes recently. I have all manner of gear that sits on the shelf for ages and holds a charge just fine, firing right back up the moment I need it. I probably haven’t used the VML in my garage in a year, and I guarantee it would still show 50%+ and power a strobe for hundreds of pops — the thing never fails, and that’s OLD tech. Nobody’s ever told me to keep it between 20 and 80% and only store it at 50% full, nor with battery powered profoto gear that I remember reading. To accept that as reasonable to keep your equipment functioning is utter madness.
ChiShutter wrote:
What a hilarious pain in the ass; I hope nobody accepts this as reasonable from modern gear in 2020.
“Have you been caring for them properly? The maintenance guide requires that you take these batteries out only by the light of the moon, and massage them weekly so they’re in a good mood when being used. If you haven’t tickled or petted your Godox battery in a few days, it’s really your fault it’s failing.”
Yeezus, glad I didn’t go Godox when I replaced all my strobes recently. I have all manner of gear that sits on the shelf for ages and holds a charge just fine, firing right back up the moment I need it. I probably haven’t used the VML in my garage in a year, and I guarantee it would still show 50%+ and power a strobe for hundreds of pops — the thing never fails, and that’s OLD tech. Nobody’s ever told me to keep it between 20 and 80% and only store it at 50% full. To accept that as reasonable to keep your equipment functioning is utter madness....Show more →
It really isn't madness depending on the battery chemistry; Google Li-ion fires they aren't all Godox batteries.
Haha, I guess they let anyone - even children - post on this forum
Every piece of gear I’ve ever worked with has required (or benefited by) some basic maintenance for optimal health over time. Reform capacitors before firing if they’ve been sitting around. Discharge the batteries completely before charging. Dump the pack and turn off power before disconnecting the head. Don’t put it to sleep and leave it to charge overnight. Etc.
But of course PCB gear requires no such mindfulness. I’m sure. That’s why they’re in such demand these days.
Nothing of what I wrote is necessary, just suggested. I don’t particularly follow it and my gear has all been working fine for maybe 4 years now. Sure, it’s not yet 20 or 10 years, but plenty to have made a big return on a relatively small investment.
I was just attempting some helpful advice. I wish you’d do the same. But if you want to keep trolling with the snarky bullshit, be my guest
ChiShutter wrote:
What a hilarious pain in the ass; I hope nobody accepts this as reasonable from modern gear in 2020.
“Have you been caring for them properly? The maintenance guide requires that you take these batteries out only by the light of the moon, and massage them weekly so they’re in a good mood when being used. If you haven’t tickled or petted your Godox battery in a few days, it’s really your fault it’s failing.”
Yeezus, glad I didn’t go Godox when I replaced all my strobes recently. I have all manner of gear that sits on the shelf for ages and holds a charge just fine, firing right back up the moment I need it. I probably haven’t used the VML in my garage in a year, and I guarantee it would still show 50%+ and power a strobe for hundreds of pops — the thing never fails, and that’s OLD tech. Nobody’s ever told me to keep it between 20 and 80% and only store it at 50% full, nor with battery powered profoto gear that I remember reading. To accept that as reasonable to keep your equipment functioning is utter madness....Show more →
TheJackBurton wrote:
Every piece of gear I’ve ever worked with has required (or benefited by) some basic maintenance for optimal health over time.
Yeah I couldn't agree more with that sentiment, it's useful to understand how to properly maintain the equipment you use (especially with the widespread use of large and expensive batteries) but why do the Godox batteries seem so prone to this issue?
My assumption is like with many of their speedlights to avoid issues around overheating they made the throttling a little too aggressive and as they designed it that way with the AD600 pro the AD400 gets to inherit this feature (never seems to be an issue with AD200's for example).
I’m no EE but my hunch is that trade offs made to keep discharge capacity to a maximum given weight/size while also recycle times to a minimum means a different chemistry approach to the batteries, and what follows are different optimal lifespan procedures. The things I noted are also the same for e.g. iPhone and Mac laptop workflow (look up “parasitic load” re: sleeping a laptop and charging simultaneously). I’m not qualified to speak on the differences between li-ion and what’s in e.g. the Vagabond (LiNiMnCoO2), but obviously there’s best practices and they’re different for each battery type.
Simon Barker wrote:
Yeah I couldn't agree more with that sentiment, it's useful to understand how to properly maintain the equipment you use (especially with the widespread use of large and expensive batteries) but why do the Godox batteries seem so prone to this issue?
My assumption is like with many of their speedlights to avoid issues around overheating they made the throttling a little too aggressive and as they designed it that way with the AD600 pro the AD400 gets to inherit this feature (never seems to be an issue with AD200's for example).
To be fair, I've had more battery issues with profoto B1s and B2s than I ever have with Godox strobes. I used my AD600 classic quite heavily and never had battery issues with it.
Batteries are a wear item, and photographers should be comfortable with occasional service and replacement. Li-ion batteries are at least less finicky than old lead acid batteries. This is also part of the reason why I have a kit of both ac and dc powered strobes, though I primarily have AC powered strobes for their faster recycle time.
batteries are definitely one of the weak links with these systems. I had two go bad (not rechargeable) after not using them for within the first year of ownership. OTOH, I've had my vagabond batteries for 6 years and they are still going strong on the original cells, regardless of time between charges.
I think this is poor practice/maintenance on your part and not a design flaw per se. New gen li-ion batteries are universally problematic with over-charging, under-use, trickle charging too long, etc. You see the same warnings/instructions for iPhones and Macbooks, even camera batteries. Every new wave of battery tech comes with it its special quirks.
I've been working with the 600PRos for a while now, I have friends working with the older 600s, I've got AD200s, AD360s, etc. Never a problem with any of their batteries. I assume, but have not tested, that they're losing some max charge over time, but nothing alarming. But then I accidentally follow best practices simply keeping them in regular use, rotating batteries, and topping them off only just before a shoot.
It's convenient to say "well I shouldn't have this problem because x product doesn't present that issue..." but then, try getting .9 sec recycle time on a 600ws strobe with your Vagabond. The closest thing, the E640, you're looking at 4.3 secs at 1/1. Yikes.
There's a reason design/chemical makeup tradeoffs are made.
jzucker wrote:
batteries are definitely one of the weak links with these systems. I had two go bad (not rechargeable) after not using them for within the first year of ownership. OTOH, I've had my vagabond batteries for 6 years and they are still going strong on the original cells, regardless of time between charges.
I don't have the same issue with my canon or paul buff batteries. I've *NEVER* had any type of recycling time issue with my vagabond. I'm rarely shooting at full power and when I shoot outside, I don't shoot 5-10x per second so it's just a non-issue for my workflow. Sometimes when folks post their experiences here, I feel like there are those who think it's like the democratic debate stage. Let's allow valid criticisms to stand on their own and not treat it like we said something bad about someone's wife or child.
TheJackBurton wrote:
I think this is poor practice/maintenance on your part and not a design flaw per se. New gen li-ion batteries are universally problematic with over-charging, under-use, trickle charging too long, etc. You see the same warnings/instructions for iPhones and Macbooks, even camera batteries. Every new wave of battery tech comes with it its special quirks.
I've been working with the 600PRos for a while now, I have friends working with the older 600s, I've got AD200s, AD360s, etc. Never a problem with any of their batteries. I assume, but have not tested, that they're losing some max charge over time, but nothing alarming. But then I accidentally follow best practices simply keeping them in regular use, rotating batteries, and topping them off only just before a shoot.
It's convenient to say "well I shouldn't have this problem because x product doesn't present that issue..." but then, try getting .9 sec recycle time on a 600ws strobe with your Vagabond. The closest thing, the E640, you're looking at 4.3 secs at 1/1. Yikes.
There's a reason design/chemical makeup tradeoffs are made.
TheJackBurton wrote:
I've been working with the 600PRos for a while now, I have friends working with the older 600s, I've got AD200s, AD360s, etc. Never a problem with any of their batteries. I assume, but have not tested, that they're losing some max charge over time, but nothing alarming. But then I accidentally follow best practices simply keeping them in regular use, rotating batteries, and topping them off only just before a shoot.
It's good advice to follow best practice, it's also good advice to point out some Godox batteries are especially prone to not recharging in these situations where most other designs probably wouldn't have had the same issue (as in designs other than the 400/600 Pro).
Hopefully people will take that advice to heart and it helps prevent this happening needlessly.
If your post was purely valid criticism I would have let it stand
jzucker wrote:
I don't have the same issue with my canon or paul buff batteries. I've *NEVER* had any type of recycling time issue with my vagabond. I'm rarely shooting at full power and when I shoot outside, I don't shoot 5-10x per second so it's just a non-issue for my workflow. Sometimes when folks post their experiences here, I feel like there are those who think it's like the democratic debate stage. Let's allow valid criticisms to stand on their own and not treat it like we said something bad about someone's wife or child.
TheJackBurton wrote:
If your post was purely valid criticism I would have let it stand
It was valid. Never had an issue with vagabond or canon batteries or panasonic batteries utilizing the same workflows. If you're using them and recharging them more often, that's why you've never experienced the issue but with the same workflow as the rest of my equipment, *ONLY* the godox batteries have had this problem. Also, you may have missed it but one of my godox 600 chargers also went bad leaving it plugged in for a couple months (with no battery connected). I leave my vagabond, panasonic and canon chargers plugged in 24 hours a day.
Again, adorama took care of the issue but it took about 7 days to get the replacement. The one time I had a bad buff transciever it was replaced out of warranty and I received it in 3 days. 'nuff said.
Just to follow up on this. After this Covid 19 madness when returned back to work after 2 months or so 2 out of 4 batteries were completely dead, in deep discharge mode or whatever Godox guys call it. Fortunately after finding videos on Youtube our electrician guy was able to 'wake them up' and now all is working just fine.
Never had this problem with any other brands so when it comes to batteries Godox should at least make sure customers will be informed about possible issues. They don't bother.You get what you pay for.Low price but with no support.
I have a Dewalt 20v Li-ion drill battery and if I leave it mounted to the drill it will discharge slowly to the point it can not be recharged. Obviously there is some parasitic drain in the drill circuit. However, there are also some useful YT videos on how to short the battery into accepting charge cycles again, I have done this twice to this battery.
I suspect it is an underlying issue in the charge cycle minimum voltage requirements that prevents them from being charged after they are drained to a certain point. Happily there are work arounds and FWIW, I never leave my Godox batteries attached to the flashes when they are not in use.
TheJackBurton wrote:
I think this is poor practice/maintenance on your part and not a design flaw per se. New gen li-ion batteries are universally problematic with over-charging, under-use, trickle charging too long, etc.
Those are conflicting statements.
If new gen li-ion batteries are universally problematic with over-charging, under-use, trickle charging too long, etc, that older batteries did not have, then they do have a design flaw, per se.
You see the same warnings/instructions for iPhones and Macbooks, even camera batteries. Every new wave of battery tech comes with it its special quirks.
Ummm. No. I use all kinds of rechargeable battery powered equipment, and I've never had an experience like three AD600 Pro batteries suddenly dying young. Not even my regular AD600 batteries--older and receiving the same maintenance--have died.
between charges.
I agree. I am so tired of having to wake up the batteries. I did a shoot and immediately after the last flash-- I went to charge it .. and again.. dead.. at least it if would get a warning..
If new gen li-ion batteries are universally problematic with over-charging, under-use, trickle charging too long, etc, that older batteries did not have, then they do have a design flaw, per se.
Ummm. No. I use all kinds of rechargeable battery powered equipment, and I've never had an experience like three AD600 Pro batteries suddenly dying young. Not even my regular AD600 batteries--older and receiving the same maintenance--have died.
between charges.
It’s not a conflicting statement to say, in effect, new batteries require different methods of working and maintaining. I do recall the standard practice for the, what was it, NiMH batteries of 13 years ago was “run them to zero before swapping out and recharging.” That same practice doesn’t hold true, and is in fact detrimental, to a Li-ion workflow - you *never* run them to zero. In the exchange, what you pick up - supposedly - is little diminished power over time per charge, what they used to call battery memory problems. This isn’t a design *flaw*, it’s a design tradeoff.
Now I have had no experience with the problems people here are having and I have a whole range of Godox battery driven lights. The 600Pros are my regular use kit, but I also have older 360s and 200s which sit, unused, for weeks/months at a time. I generally store them at or near 100% charge, and try to keep batteries in circulation, and charge them before returning to store. Like everyone, I’ve had a massive dip in gear usage since late February and have only recently started to shoot again here and there. My batteries seem fine. Is that luck? Or is it because I’ve implemented a baseline, standard way of dealing with the batteries? In either case, are there things you can do to prevent or greatly reduce future battery issues? I think so.
FWIW I think it sucks that gear has gone bad, needs replacing or prohibitively complex maintenance like waking batteries up and I’m totally sympathetic to feeling frustrated by that. It also sucks that there’s not a standardized, clear document from Godox saying, in effect, “batteries are a tricky component and heres what we’ve found to be best practices for long term usage…”
That said, not even Apple does this, which is aggravating as hell. And their gear isn’t cheap! A $2400-3000 MacBook Pro - how should you treat the battery? Do you work as often or as rarely from the charging cable? Do you charge while the laptop is sleeping? (Answer: hell no) I know the answers to these things, or at least think I do, only by virtue of the fact that I’m curious and spent way too much time diving into forum posts on the topic. Nowhere does Apple mention the phrase “parasitic load” in their docs.
Anyway, good luck going forward. I never detach my batteries when storing my 600Pros but, after reading this thread, I will start.
