sungphoto wrote:
Totally, I use bare heads quite often for my product work too - especially with gems where you sometimes need a nice ultra specular light to make them sparkle. As an aside, every time you post that pic of one your Matthews rollers it makes me want to swap out my Avenger rollers for them..
The Hollywood stands are unquestionably handsome, but your Avenger junior roller is just as serious. You really should acquire a 4.5" grip head (Lollipop) as seen on my stand. It turns a wimpy 40" grip arm into a sand-kicking champion! As for BD and other dishes, I often interpose diffusion of some kind: a silk opens shadows nicely while preserving most of the liveliness of direct light. And positioning the panel allows for creative tuning. One can cover the light 50/50 for a split-character effect: MSE makes a specific frame for this purpose (open end). I agree that a metal BD is happiest in the studio, but is otherwise a fine general-purpose dish for throwing a broad pattern (especially the white). Larger apparent size of the source and lack of double shadowing makes it quite different from the harder light of a long-throw dish or even the Magnum with its stippled finish.
FYI, lights attached to a grip arm are supposed to be mounted on the knuckle end using a baby pin. As far as a "minor" mistake, not doing so will get you reprimanded or kicked off a set if you work in the film industry, and for good reason.
One piece of advice: before you post something, imagine that you’re saying it to a person in real life, and not hidden behind a keyboard. Then if you come across as a kind of a d!ck, maybe rethink posting it. Putting “no offense but” in front of a pretty lame comment doesn’t excuse the lack of politeness, and considering you haven’t backed up your claim about being “in the biz for 30 years” maybe cool it with the know it all attitude
JBPhotog wrote:
Wow, touchy are we?
FYI, lights attached to a grip arm are supposed to be mounted on the knuckle end using a baby pin. As far as a "minor" mistake, not doing so will get you reprimanded or kicked off a set if you work in the film industry, and for good reason.
JB: I gave you pushback because it's unfortunate your first and only impulse was a superficial critique. I'd posted the images hoping they'd help foster a broader conversation about still life techniques.
Meanwhile... I'd assumed your comment was meaning that some of the arms were on the wrong side of the column (weight bearing lefty loosey), but your actual comment about putting every head on a pin is strangely out of touch with every job I've ever worked on. I might have seen your suggested setup once in, at this point, over a decade in the industry... and I've worked with some exceptional photographers.
That said, I don't want things to devolve into an argument. I'd love to see yours & others BTS shots of their still life setups, and what makes their working style clever/efficient, and not just bragging about the size of our stands
sungphoto wrote:
I think if you're going to get a beauty dish only to put a diffusion on it, you might as well just get a softbox though. Beauty dishes are also not the most portable modifier - mine pretty much always stays in my home studio.
The adorama glow boxes are a great value based on a buddy who's picked a couple of their strip boxes. Probably aren't as durable as the more expensive modifiers, but for occasional use they're totally fine.
Yeah, but you get the sock if you want diffusion. You don't have to use it, but if you wanted softer light then a $10-20 sock gives you another look. Dual purpose solution. In a perfect world we could all have multiple reflectors, beauty dishes, softboxes, etc...but some people might want a cheaper option than buying multiple modifiers.
tdlavigne wrote:
Yeah, but you get the sock if you want diffusion. You don't have to use it, but if you wanted softer light then a $10-20 sock gives you another look. Dual purpose solution. In a perfect world we could all have multiple reflectors, beauty dishes, softboxes, etc...but some people might want a cheaper option than buying multiple modifiers.
Based on the OP's original question though, why would you recommend a beauty dish for essentially flat shadowless ecommerce shots, and what would a beauty dish accomplish that a standard reflector or umbrella couldn't accomplish in this use case? I love my profoto softlight reflector (what they like to call their white interior beauty dish) but it's for that specific combo of hard punchiness with a soft glow along with the round catch light that makes it worthwhile. Yes you can use it for product work, but one could get 2-3 square and strip softboxes from the budget impact and adorama glow brands for the cost of a decent beauty dish.
From the sounds of it, the OP is at the point of his or her lighting journey where they're still figuring out the relative quality of light differences between round and square modifiers. It's easy to justify gear purchases for the new toy factor, but the umbrella's the OP is currently using are likely not being used to their full potential and I don't see how a beauty dish would be a better solution for the use case. If the OP is interested in learning about portrait photography, I would also recommend a cheap convertible umbrella (that can be used as shoot through and bounce with diffusion) to learn over a beauty dish as it's much easier to produce pleasant results with the former for those getting into the hobby.
That said, the OP hasn't posted pics of what they're producing right now, or what they envision as their goal in terms of what their completed images should look like.
sungphoto wrote:
Based on the OP's original question though, why would you recommend a beauty dish for essentially flat shadowless ecommerce shots, and what would a beauty dish accomplish that a standard reflector or umbrella couldn't accomplish in this use case? I love my profoto softlight reflector (what they like to call their white interior beauty dish) but it's for that specific combo of hard punchiness with a soft glow along with the round catch light that makes it worthwhile. Yes you can use it for product work, but one could get 2-3 square and strip softboxes from the budget impact and adorama glow brands for the cost of a decent beauty dish.
From the sounds of it, the OP is at the point of his or her lighting journey where they're still figuring out the relative quality of light differences between round and square modifiers. It's easy to justify gear purchases for the new toy factor, but the umbrella's the OP is currently using are likely not being used to their full potential and I don't see how a beauty dish would be a better solution for the use case. If the OP is interested in learning about portrait photography, I would also recommend a cheap convertible umbrella (that can be used as shoot through and bounce with diffusion) to learn over a beauty dish as it's much easier to produce pleasant results with the former for those getting into the hobby.
That said, the OP hasn't posted pics of what they're producing right now, or what they envision as their goal in terms of what their completed images should look like....Show more →
Oh I don't know...maybe:
Cableaddict wrote:
...I've always wanted to have a beauty dish, so I'm wondering if there's any reason not to use that instead? (And then of course I'd have one for the occasional head shot.)
It seems to me that if anything, the beauty dish would be preferable as they supposedly give better contrast.
Any thoughts on this idea?
Any suggestions for which to get, what size, etc?
thx.
I'm not sure why you refer to ecommerce as flat shadowless. If you're doing it that way you're doing something wrong. Did I miss something where the OP was specifically asking for that? Are you assuming that the light from a BD would be flat/shadowless? I'd argue that those umbrellas you're so fond of would be even more of an issue with flat/shadowless light if you're not careful. Even then you get to enjoy setting up multiple flags to control the light. I'd argue that a BD would be easier for a beginner to understand controlling light than umbrellas. Plus you get the benefit of less control of the light *shrug*
I suggested a BD as the OP A) wants one, and B) is interested in more contrast. I'm not denying that softboxes are fine for products (I used them 99% of the time when I shoot products) BUT, if you want a beauty dish, it's also an option to basically have a sock to soften the light in the event you wish you had that small octa instead. You can't add anything to those umbrellas (unless you want to tell me you're suggesting Bron Paras next...) or strip boxes that would make them a valid dual purpose solution for portraits as well, and it sounds like the OP is just as interested in having something for portraiture as they are products. I don't see what's so hard to understand about the reasoning here...
Without knowing exactly what the OP is shooting, and what their moodboards or example photos are we can't really give an exact kit for the best way to shoot it. That's why when someone says "I want a BD, but also considering a softbox" I say "Hey, you can get both by just adding a sock".
If you look at the other threads the OP has posted, you might understand what I’m trying to explain to you.
tdlavigne wrote:
Oh I don't know...maybe:
I'm not sure why you refer to ecommerce as flat shadowless. If you're doing it that way you're doing something wrong. Did I miss something where the OP was specifically asking for that? Are you assuming that the light from a BD would be flat/shadowless? I'd argue that those umbrellas you're so fond of would be even more of an issue with flat/shadowless light if you're not careful. Even then you get to enjoy setting up multiple flags to control the light. I'd argue that a BD would be easier for a beginner to understand controlling light than umbrellas. Plus you get the benefit of less control of the light *shrug*
I suggested a BD as the OP A) wants one, and B) is interested in more contrast. I'm not denying that softboxes are fine for products (I used them 99% of the time when I shoot products) BUT, if you want a beauty dish, it's also an option to basically have a sock to soften the light in the event you wish you had that small octa instead. You can't add anything to those umbrellas (unless you want to tell me you're suggesting Bron Paras next...) or strip boxes that would make them a valid dual purpose solution for portraits as well, and it sounds like the OP is just as interested in having something for portraiture as they are products. I don't see what's so hard to understand about the reasoning here...
Without knowing exactly what the OP is shooting, and what their moodboards or example photos are we can't really give an exact kit for the best way to shoot it. That's why when someone says "I want a BD, but also considering a softbox" I say "Hey, you can get both by just adding a sock".
FYI, lights attached to a grip arm are supposed to be mounted on the knuckle end using a baby pin. As far as a "minor" mistake, not doing so will get you reprimanded or kicked off a set if you work in the film industry, and for good reason.
Speaking as someone who has actually worked on film sets in the film industry, you'd be amazed how many "alternative" ways there are to the proper way, and no one gets kicked off the set.
Of course being wise enough to find mistakes in other people does make a person feel good about themselves, especially if they can do so from behind the protection of a computer screen.
Sometimes of course it is better to go with the flow and seek only to correct when we have sufficient experience, credibility or examples of our workflow.
And sometimes it is better not to sound like a jerk.
All of these are sound principles in life. All we have to do is choose which principles we want follow.
To OP; my credentials and opinion are based on being a hobbyist with enough income to afford the tools I want. My skills are 'developing'. Shooting Dungeon and Dragon (toy) scenes as one line of interest, I found a small beauty dish to be an excellent way to highlight a feature. If you want to learn to use the tool; buy it.
For perspective: I have a friend with a 35 Fischer motor-sailer moored year round in Skagway.
He frequently comments on how much money I waste on camera gear.
I use a beauty dish as needed, and Mola's are the best. It's a subtle thing and most people don't get it.The big ones are brilliant outside when it's windy and other round light modifiers would collapse.
Otherwise their job is to make the light source larger, thats basically it. Personally I think the Chimera line of modifiers allows for the greatest versatility, get one adapter ring and hunt for various modifiers on eBay. Their beauty dish 24" is very nice (I use that one when not traveling with a Mola) and the variations you get with a medium strip light vs. a medium box (or large, depending on subject) are great to explore.
Keep in mind sometimes round speculars are not the best. For things like bottles I like 2 strip boxes to place a highlight down the sides of the bottle. Sometimes round speculars are more appropriate. But for selling on ebay, probably doesn't matter.
You really should acquire a 4.5" grip head (Lollipop) as seen on my stand. It turns a wimpy 40" grip arm into a sand-kicking champion! As for BD and other dishes, I often interpose diffusion of some kind: a silk opens shadows nicely while preserving most of the liveliness of direct light. And positioning the panel allows for creative tuning. One can cover the light 50/50 for a split-character effect: MSE makes a specific frame for this purpose (open end). I agree that a metal BD is happiest in the studio, but is otherwise a fine general-purpose dish for throwing a broad pattern (especially the white). Larger apparent size of the source and lack of double shadowing makes it quite different from the harder light of a long-throw dish or even the Magnum with its stippled finish.