p.1 #1 · Plm for newborns: 64 vs 84 white vs softsilver
Have a child on the way and am looking to do the "baby in the basket" shots in-house myself (we use a local pro photographer for lifestyle/wedding/family who no longer does this kind of work).
I'd prefer to buy only one of the above.
Most videos and websites have newborn photographers using an 86" white plm with black back and front diffuser.
One I have seen uses an 86" in soft silver with front diffuser.
Another uses a 64" plm in what I believe is white with black back and front.
I don't have dedicated studio space. Living room and bedrooms only. We have a small house with 8ft ceilings.
I already own two convertible 43" standard white umbrellas with removable black backs and now a 38" parapop softbox.
I just bought a flashpoint ad600pro and already had a godox 685 and an older Canon 580exii.
My gut says to get a 64" in soft silver and the front diffuser as it would be most flexible. But because the cost isn't crazy I feel the 86" in white is super soft and can double as an outdoor sun diffuser as long as I had a helper.
I guess im asking....(all options below would have the front diffuser and of black back cover purchased at the same time)
1) If I could only pick one of the above?
2) If you were to pick two.
Dec 06, 2018 at 12:07 AM
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p.1 #2 · Plm for newborns: 64 vs 84 white vs softsilver
3) neither, just use natural light. It's a matter of taste, of course, but newborn pics with studio lighting ALWAYS look off to me. Also, with newborns, monochrome can be your friend.
p.1 #3 · Plm for newborns: 64 vs 84 white vs softsilver
Thanks. I was hoping for advice regarding plm's for obvious use with a new born and I suppose implied (but not written) use for other subject material.
Natural light is great but I want and need the option of flash. 😎
p.1 #4 · Plm for newborns: 64 vs 84 white vs softsilver
Between those options, I'd say use the 86" white with diffuser. I've found that the umbrella rib pattern can show through the diffusion material in the catch lights with silver lined umbrellas.
That said, I'd actually push you more towards something like a double diffused 4x6 ft softbox or a 5 ft octa as it will be softer and have less of a potential hot spot. Large umbrellas are great for a big soft light source, but intensity of the light falls off considerably from center to edge vs a well designed softbox.
Using a 4x6 or 5 ft softbox and feathering it will give you that natural light look you're looking for. Highly recommend using a reflector on the opposing side to fill in the shadows, and perhaps another light boomed above or a bare flash shot into the ceiling works well too for a broad fill.
p.1 #5 · Plm for newborns: 64 vs 84 white vs softsilver
Do the mentioned softboxes breakdown and store easily?
The alure of the plm is speed of setup and breakdown, storage, all while providing a relatively large and soft light source. I realize id be giving up the ability to grid with the plm which might be an issue in the smaller space.
p.1 #6 · Plm for newborns: 64 vs 84 white vs softsilver
Sayn3ver wrote:
Do the mentioned softboxes breakdown and store easily?
The alure of the plm is speed of setup and breakdown, storage, all while providing a relatively large and soft light source. I realize id be giving up the ability to grid with the plm which might be an issue in the smaller space.
Is there a particular 5ft soft box to recommend?
Definitely want to mimic window light.
All of the 5 ft octas I can think of are a standard speed ring plus rod type setup, so not super quick to set up. There are folding umbrella type octas like the westcott XXL 48" and Elinchrom Rotalux 53" that are pretty quick to set up and store though, and would be totally fine for shooting a newborn. The Profoto RFI 5 ft octa is very soft and even, and built to last, but it's quite heavy and not the easiest thing to set up by yourself (helps to have a second set of hands to help bend in those first opposing ribs). There's someone selling a 5 ft westcott octa on FM B&S for only $150 including a balcar mount if you shoot alienbees. Elinchrom's indirect octas are gorgeous and have great consistency in light output towards the edges, but they're expensive and also not the quickest to set up.
You're going to get that subtle "natural light look" by playing around with feathering though, which you can achieve with the PLM as well.
I haven't been super impressed with the quality of the PLM umbrellas lately though. I have a couple of the medium size ones in shoot through with black backing, and the backing is a little loose even with the umbrella fully open.
p.1 #7 · Plm for newborns: 64 vs 84 white vs softsilver
I have a question. Would it be crazy to consider one of the lastolite hilight backgrounds as a softbox for infant/children. I like the large size and packability. If I splurged foe the 6x7 I can try my hand at high key and it could give me a portable background if i pickup the grey background in the future. Or are they more toys than tools?
p.1 #8 · Plm for newborns: 64 vs 84 white vs softsilver
Sayn3ver wrote:
I have a question. Would it be crazy to consider one of the lastolite hilight backgrounds as a softbox for infant/children. I like the large size and packability. If I splurged foe the 6x7 I can try my hand at high key and it could give me a portable background if i pickup the grey background in the future. Or are they more toys than tools?
The Lastolite stuff is made pretty well, but having put one of the hilites together before, it takes just as long if not longer to put that together as a 5 ft octa. So for your use case, no I wouldn't recommend it. I had a lastolite kicker lite for a while but in the end sold it on because for how big the thing was, I wasn't really saving space from using a typical softbox.
The hilite is really a one trick pony, and won't be as soft as a double diffused softbox (as it only has one layer of diffusion). It's also quite large and not something you can mount onto a light stand or something to be used as a traditional softbox. Even if you do high key backdrops regularly, a couple lights pointed at your backdrop works about as well.
I'd recommend a 3x4, 4x6 softbox or a 4 or 5 ft octa, use both layers of diffusion and play around with feathering, and use fill depending on how dark you want your shadows. The thing to remember about trying to duplicate a natural light look in studio is that lovely quality of light from a big window is imperfect (versus a very "lit" looking source as a double diffused softbox), so pointing the middle of a softbox (or diffused XL umbrella) directly at the subject will make the light look like it was made in a studio. Honestly, I think it makes sense to own both a 7 ft umbrella with diffusion and a large softbox for this type of stuff and just play around with it. You could use the 7 ft umbrella right behind you as on-axis fill if you don't want to use reflector/fill card.
p.1 #9 · Plm for newborns: 64 vs 84 white vs softsilver
Thanks again for the detailed input. The ability to feather light is the soft look I'm going after, correct? Is it the recessed diffusion panel on most softboxes that is desirable for this?
I know a white plm with back and diffuser will be plenty soft for what I want to do. A typical softbox is more controlled regarding spill though, correct?
p.1 #10 · Plm for newborns: 64 vs 84 white vs softsilver
sungphoto wrote:
Between those options, I'd say use the 86" white with diffuser. I've found that the umbrella rib pattern can show through the diffusion material in the catch lights with silver lined umbrellas.
That said, I'd actually push you more towards something like a double diffused 4x6 ft softbox or a 5 ft octa as it will be softer and have less of a potential hot spot. Large umbrellas are great for a big soft light source, but intensity of the light falls off considerably from center to edge vs a well designed softbox.
Using a 4x6 or 5 ft softbox and feathering it will give you that natural light look you're looking for. Highly recommend using a reflector on the opposing side to fill in the shadows, and perhaps another light boomed above or a bare flash shot into the ceiling works well too for a broad fill. ...Show more →
I just did some side by side test shots of the 64" soft silver PLM with diffuser and the Elinchrom 150cm Rotalux Indirect. I didn't notice any lines from the PLM's ribs, however it didn't fill the face of the diffusion nearly as evenly as the Rotalux. I'd say the Rotalux was near perfect across the face with the outer diffusion (and surprisingly seemed better than with both inner and outer diffusion) while the PLM fell off in the outer third. As a result, shadow transitions were a bit softer with the Rotalux than the PLM even though both are nearly the same size. Using the same lights in each, the diffused PLM was about 1.5 stops more efficient than the Rotalux with outer diffusion. The PLM is also closer to perfectly round while the Rotalux is clearly an octa in shape.
If you have a small room, the 86" will be very large. You'll potentially get a lot of light bounce, but this will be true for any light, to some degree. Use of black cards for negative fill may be desirable. Wall color could also be a factor if not close to neutral.
The Photek Softlighter is another popular umbrella option. I have the 60", but haven't yet done a side by side against the PLM. I find the PLM slightly less of a hassle to set up. The Softlighter's 'sock' in the middle of the diffusion fits quite tightly and I'm using small Elinchrom Quadra heads... it might be a bit of a pain with something like a typical monolight.
Regarding softbox set up hassle due to the rods... the Elinchrom Rotalux line all fold up umbrella-like with the speedring attached. It's pretty quick after the first assembly and all around well made. Not cheap but IMO you get what you pay for here.
BTW, these modifiers, whether umbrellas or boxes, work better with strobe heads with traditional protruding flash tubes, than speedlight style heads with recessed flash tubes. The protruding tube design better fills these modifiers.
p.1 #11 · Plm for newborns: 64 vs 84 white vs softsilver
If you put things into a slightly different perspective it may help you decide. First, as already mentioned, an 86" umbrella in a room with 8' ceilings will be cumbersome (think PITA) and provide limited flexibility with placement. It will also be much harder to control the light without lots of black foam core to block off reflections. If you had a studio with higher ceilings and mores space, an 86" would make a lot more sense.
A good 60 - 65" umbrella with a diffuser will be fine for great "window light" plus you can find models with grids for future photography as the child grows up. Lighting is as much about light control as it is about size of source relative to the subject. You can also add a reflector for additional softness and even light, if needed.
Finally, you have to put the lighting in its place as one portion of a successful photo. You can have great lighting, but lousy color selection, composition, subject's expression, incorrect lens choice, correct exposure for ambient and flash, etc. The difference between an 86" and a 65" is not going to make or break a great photo.
p.1 #12 · Plm for newborns: 64 vs 84 white vs softsilver
appreciated. I understand that lighting is not the only aspect, and obviously light modifiers are a subset of that. No different than when someone gets hung up on a lens choice, body choice, etc.
I agree with the assessment that an 86" plm may be too cumbersome for anything but 90 degree oriented lighting schemes for newborns. I also am afraid of light spill so i am torn between the portability of a plm/westcott diffused umbrella vs an umbrella style softbox.
As i mentioned i already have a 38" glow parapop softbox which would probably be fine (my kind of setup and breakdown, stores easily, budget friendly when it was bundled, can adapt to my speedlights but traded offs include build quality and absolute light quality performance ). I just dont think i can get it low enough on the stands i have at the moment.
Again thanks for the assistance from everyone. Boring subject matter for most id imagine but a lot of the recommendations around the net seem to be from less technical people than this site and a few other photography forums offer.
I am also trying to be thoughtful in acquiring anymore light modifiers. I want my kit to be minimal, flexible and effective. Ive hung on to my two convertible 43" umbrellas for years now (since 07?) as they are the recommended first modifiers and can be used numerous ways.
p.1 #13 · Plm for newborns: 64 vs 84 white vs softsilver
Started looking at cheetahstand deep parabolic softboxes as well since they are in my range.
Was considering getting the 48" quick ricebowl then stumbled upon that their normal ricebowls can utilize their "chopstick" mount which turns it into a reverse shooting parabolic.
Their regular (aka not the quick deploy umbrella style) deep ricebowls also come in a 60" version.
So now I'm kind of torn even more. I feel the 48" standard ricebowl, with reflector disk is the most versitile and I can save and add the chopstick pole later if I want that look.
However the normal versions are not the quick deploy and would be more time consuming to setup and break down but dont look to bad after watching the assembly video.
