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Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 Color Skopar Review

  
 
phinix
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p.49 #1 · p.49 #1 · Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 Color Skopar Review


HelenaN wrote:
Some more. These are from a couple of day trips south/southwest of Trondheim in late May.
The Lom stave church still has its original medieval crest with dragon heads and dates from the 12th century. The dragon heads are an architectural and cultural remnant from the pagan Viking era.

(Previously posted in the big Sony FE thread.)

https://helenasphotography.com/keep/2020/20200522_006_a7ll-cv21b.jpg

https://helenasphotography.com/keep/2020/20200522_030_a7-cv21b.jpg

https://helenasphotography.com/keep/2020/20200531_015_a7-cv21b.jpg

https://helenasphotography.com/keep/2020/20200531_027_a7-cv21bw.jpg

https://helenasphotography.com/keep/2020/20200531_032_a7-cv21bw.jpg

https://helenasphotography.com/keep/2020/20200522_018_a7-cv21b.jpg

https://helenasphotography.com/keep/2020/20200531_009_a7-cv21bw.jpg

https://helenasphotography.com/keep/2020/20200531_007_a7-cv21bw.jpg


Helena, your photos are phenomenal as always. I love Voigtlander lens and always love to see all your photos made with these lens. Fantastic



Mar 29, 2023 at 02:36 PM
phinix
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p.49 #2 · p.49 #2 · Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 Color Skopar Review


photonoclast wrote:
Can't travel this year, so why not process ones from last year? This is from Natural Bridges, Utah (Sipapu Bridge). A7iii + 21/3.5. Great hiking combo!


How did you get it so sharp? Is it post sharpening or was it taken with tripod?



Mar 29, 2023 at 02:42 PM
photonoclast
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p.49 #3 · p.49 #3 · Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 Color Skopar Review


phinix wrote:
How did you get it so sharp? Is it post sharpening or was it taken with tripod?


It was actually hand held, but it was so bright I shot at 1/2000 f5.6, so no need for a tripod at that speed. I applied modest sharpening and clarity in PP, but it's not really overdone. I think I got a perfect copy of this lens - it is a razor at f5.6.



Apr 01, 2023 at 10:17 AM
phinix
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p.49 #4 · p.49 #4 · Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 Color Skopar Review


photonoclast wrote:
It was actually hand held, but it was so bright I shot at 1/2000 f5.6, so no need for a tripod at that speed. I applied modest sharpening and clarity in PP, but it's not really overdone. I think I got a perfect copy of this lens - it is a razor at f5.6.


Wow, handheld, that's really nice



Apr 01, 2023 at 05:59 PM
photonoclast
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p.49 #5 · p.49 #5 · Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 Color Skopar Review


phinix wrote:
Wow, handheld, that's really nice


When shooting stationary subjects handheld, I have the shutter set on 2-second delay, breathe out, and touch the release. Removing breathing motion and the inevitable slight jog of the camera when firing the shutter button takes out 90% of motion blur issues.



Apr 01, 2023 at 06:10 PM
phinix
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p.49 #6 · p.49 #6 · Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 Color Skopar Review


I pulled the trigger and ordered it - latest version (II) of 21mm 3.5 VM, black.
Will be here tomorrow, cannot wait

Edited on Apr 05, 2023 at 01:01 PM · View previous versions



Apr 05, 2023 at 12:16 PM
phinix
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p.49 #7 · p.49 #7 · Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 Color Skopar Review


double post



Edited on Apr 05, 2023 at 01:01 PM · View previous versions



Apr 05, 2023 at 12:18 PM
bcguy
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p.49 #8 · p.49 #8 · Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 Color Skopar Review


Sony shooters sure have a lot of interesting lenses to choose from.


Apr 05, 2023 at 12:58 PM
phinix
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p.49 #9 · p.49 #9 · Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 Color Skopar Review


It came in
Looks soooo tiny! Amazing on A7C.
Apologies for potato phone photo
I will take it out for a walk this weekend and do some tests - especially Fred's centering test.


20230406_124820 by phinix-mike



Apr 06, 2023 at 07:09 AM
phinix
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p.49 #10 · p.49 #10 · Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 Color Skopar Review


Took it out for a walk.
Its hard to judge if this copy is good or not, what do you guys think?
Do you see any obvious issues?

All SOOC, CV 21mm f3.5 VM II on Sony A7C. I think these are f8, I either do f3.5 or f8.

(What can I do to auto-shrink them with window size?)





DSC05638 by phinix-mike





DSC05647 by phinix-mike

Edited on Apr 13, 2023 at 06:39 PM · View previous versions



Apr 10, 2023 at 04:02 PM
 


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1bwana1
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p.49 #11 · p.49 #11 · Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 Color Skopar Review


phinix wrote:
Took it out for a walk.
Its hard to judge if this copy is good or not, what do you guys think?
Do you see any obvious issues?

All SOOC, CV 21mm f3.5 VM II on Sony A7C. I think these are f8, I either do f3.5 or f8.



Yes, I see the very big negative issue of CA resulting in extremely high levels of purple fringing in the tree branches. I have never experienced this lebel of CA in my copy which I shoot on my Leica M cameras. I am wondering if this is an issue with adapting to Sony, or whether you shot these as JPEGs or RAW images, and if you have enabled lens correction in either camera or in LightRoom (or other processing software).

This would be an unacceptable level of CA for me.



Apr 13, 2023 at 05:55 PM
MAubrey
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p.49 #12 · p.49 #12 · Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 Color Skopar Review


phinix wrote:
(What can I do to auto-shrink them with window size?)

http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52807340192_5c9c651f7b_o.jpgDSC05638 by phinix-mike

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52808109599_8366b4459f_o.jpgDSC05647 by phinix-mike

Remove the (img)(/img) tags, I believe.

A bare url that ends jpg should do it:








Apr 13, 2023 at 06:07 PM
phinix
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p.49 #13 · p.49 #13 · Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 Color Skopar Review


1bwana1 wrote:
Yes, I see the very big negative issue of CA resulting in extremely high levels of purple fringing in the tree branches. I have never experienced this lebel of CA in my copy which I shoot on my Leica M cameras. I am wondering if this is an issue with adapting to Sony, or whether you shot these as JPEGs or RAW images, and if you have enabled lens correction in either camera or in LightRoom (or other processing software).

This would be an unacceptable level of CA for me.


As adopted VM lens on Sony body, camera does not apply any corrections. These are SOOC jpgs, nothing was edited - I'm guessing either this copy has flaws, or it does it on Sony?
Do you think I should return it and get other copy?



Apr 13, 2023 at 06:41 PM
1bwana1
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p.49 #14 · p.49 #14 · Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 Color Skopar Review


Before you decide let's do a little test. Shoot some RAW files similar to the ones you posted. Lots of branches against a bright background. The eith you, or if you don't have the acabilities I will do it for you, let's process the files in Lightroom using the proper lens corrections. Then we will know whether or not it is a bad copy, or just not the right choiuce foir you the way you shoot and process.

To be honest with you, I do not shoot my M mount lenses adapted to my unmodified sensor Sony cameras. I have found to much image degradation when doing the. I shoot M mount lenses, on Mount cameras. If I want to shoot a Voigtlander lens on my Sony cameras I buy the e-mount versions for that.

Let me know.



Apr 13, 2023 at 07:32 PM
photonoclast
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p.49 #15 · p.49 #15 · Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 Color Skopar Review


my guess is that this is extremely likely to be an adapter issue. The e-mount version on sony shows *nothing* like this.


Apr 13, 2023 at 08:21 PM
phinix
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p.49 #16 · p.49 #16 · Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 Color Skopar Review


1bwana1 wrote:
Yes, I see the very big negative issue of CA resulting in extremely high levels of purple fringing in the tree branches. I have never experienced this lebel of CA in my copy which I shoot on my Leica M cameras. I am wondering if this is an issue with adapting to Sony, or whether you shot these as JPEGs or RAW images, and if you have enabled lens correction in either camera or in LightRoom (or other processing software).

This would be an unacceptable level of CA for me.


OK, I shoot in raw+jpg so have raws of those photos as well.
I just imported it to Lightroom. When applied lens profile, it fixed distortion etc also ticked remove CA, but it took off just a bit, those branches in left top corner still look like have it.
How can I post raw file here?

OK, here are few screenshots from top left corner of that photo in RAW in Lightroom.
(all here: https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjAzM1h)

raw no corrections






raw removed CA only






raw removed CA and lens corrections applied








Apr 14, 2023 at 06:03 AM
sergun
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p.49 #17 · p.49 #17 · Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 Color Skopar Review





Apr 14, 2023 at 07:29 AM
1bwana1
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p.49 #18 · p.49 #18 · Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 Color Skopar Review


phinix wrote:
OK, I shoot in raw+jpg so have raws of those photos as well.
I just imported it to Lightroom. When applied lens profile, it fixed distortion etc also ticked remove CA, but it took off just a bit, those branches in left top corner still look like have it.
How can I post raw file here?



Yeah, even with the corrections applied the problems persist to a level that I would find unacceptable. Please note that this doesn't say anything about whether or not you have a good copy of the lens.

The next step would be to try and do some manual corrections. However, I doubt you or anyone would want to put that much work into images shot with this lens on that body.

This is exactly why I have stopped adapting M mount lenses to unmodified Sony cameras.

In order to acheive the high levels of performance with small lenses that leica is famous for, Leica treats the lenses and the camera as a system. These small diameter lenses with full frame coverage require that the further from center of the sensor, the higher the angle of incidence the light direction must be. The widder the focal length, the greater this problem gets. Leica designs their sensors to cpmpensate for this with famously amazing results. The glass cover is thin, and is composed of microlenses that are designed so that as you move away from center, they are no longer symetrical, but curved to optomize for this high angle of incidence. The Sony sensor glass layer is thicker, and has symetrical microlenses that cannot compensate for this high angle of incidence. This results in the chromatic aberations, distortions, and smearing, that we are seeing here.

The small M mount Voigtlander lenses also have this design. The result is that you need to either buy the E-Mount version of the lenses, or send your camera to a place like Kolari Vision to have the sensor glass replaced by a thinner version. In my opinion the reults are still not as good as a native M mount lens on a Leica sensor.

This is all just simple physics and won't change no matter how good a copy of the lens you get. So changing it out will not solve your issues.

I have both the M mount and the E-Mount versions of this lens. I have included a picture below. You can see that although they are both "Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 Color Skopar" lenses they are very different in size and design. This for very good reasons.

I hope you find this information educational and usefull.

Steve







Apr 14, 2023 at 12:33 PM
phinix
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p.49 #19 · p.49 #19 · Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 Color Skopar Review


1bwana1 wrote:
Yeah, even with the corrections applied the problems persist to a level that I would find unacceptable. Please note that this doesn't say anything about whether or not you have a good copy of the lens.

The next step would be to try and do some manual corrections. However, I doubt you or anyone would want to put that much work into images shot with this lens on that body.

This is exactly why I have stopped adapting M mount lenses to unmodified Sony cameras.

In order to acheive the high levels of performance with small lenses that leica is famous for,
...Show more

Thank you for your reply, it is very informative.
I thought that I could buy this VM lens for Sony camera, cause it was so small, nice to handle, short focus throw etc
I had many E mount Voigtlanders and did not like the size and weight. However, I had 35mm 1.4 which is almost the same as E mount 21mm and liked the size - for me it was maximum I could use on A7C.
So you are saying that E mount has no issues at all and all corrections are applied on camera? How is focus throw? is it short, like 90-100 degrees like VM, or freaking long, like CV40mm 1.2 E mount has?

I bought this VM cause saw many people, including Fred here, confirming that VM is great on Sony and there are no issues.
To be honest, I don't really see that CA when looking at photo on a screen, without magnifying. Would you say that VM would make photos a lot worse on Sony? Like definitely you wouldn't recommend it and get E mount instead?

Do you have other Voigtlander VM lens you use? I guess if you have, you use them on your modified Sony body?



Apr 14, 2023 at 04:05 PM
phinix
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p.49 #20 · p.49 #20 · Voigtlander 21mm f/3.5 Color Skopar Review


I just bought E version to compare with my VM.
It so cool that when I set f8 and focus to hard stop, I get great sharp photos.
My previous Voigtlanders did not do that, infinity sharpness was just a mm from hard stop.

Compared to VM version it still has, but a lot less CA. However, weight wise its same, either VM and adapter or E version on my A7C. I think I will keep E version this time. I love VM for being so small, like that focusing tab etc but for this specific focal length, E feels somehow better on Sony A7C. Only that focusing ring on E feels hard to move, really has that resistance - for this I prefer VM focusing.



May 07, 2023 at 08:18 AM
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