p.1 #1 · Beginner Astrophotography (Milky Way and Star Trails) - 24mm Wide Enough?
Around the middle part of April, I am headed to the following national parks in Utah and Arizona, for about ten days:
- Canyonlands
- Canyons of the Ancients National Monument
- Monument Valley
- Antelope Canyon
- Horseshoe Bend
- Grand Canyon
- Zion National Park
- Bryce
Since I'll be in the area, and it's likely I will not go back anytime soon, I wanted to try and grab some astrophotography shots at some or all of these locations. I am a total beginner with regards to this type of photography so handle me with kid gloves lol
Other Gear
- Canon 5D3
- BH-55 ball head
- RRS PG-02 (maybe)
- Gitzo series 2 traveler tripod
Lenses
- As far as lenses, my plan is to bring the 16-35 f/4 IS, 70-200 f/2.8L II, and possibly the 8-15 fisheye.
- For astrophotography, it sounds like wide and fast is the name of the game. But what's the recommended FL for shots of the Milky Way with landscape in the foreground? And for star trails? I have a few lenses wider than 24mm but all are f/4 (e.g. 16-35, 11-24). I do have the 24 f/1.4 II, but is 24mm wide enough for what I want to do? Also have the 24-70 f/2.8L II as well if that helps.
- Or should I purchase a lens for these astro shots? I've read that, for beginners, the Samyang/Rokinon 14mm f/2.8 is the one to get. If price wasn't an issue, what would be the lenses to get for astrophotography? In general, I don't like to play the "buy a lens and hope it's good" lottery.
Other Items
- Are trackers a must? I'd rather not purchase the tracker since it's another piece of gear that I will probably use sparingly, since I'm in NYC and don't have many opportunities to take astrophotography shots. But open to trackers if it's helpful and within reason price-wise.
- What Android apps can I use to determine where the Milky Way is located when I am in the field? Any other apps that are useful?
Safety
- Being an urbanite, I am naturally inclined to be fearful of all open spaces outside of big cities lol. Do I have to worry about animals when I'm out at these parks in the middle of the night? I'll have my head lamp if that helps at all haha
p.1 #2 · Beginner Astrophotography (Milky Way and Star Trails) - 24mm Wide Enough?
focal length and lens choice:
For the milky way, 14 to 35mm are nice FL. The canon 24-70 f2.8 II is a great lens for mw at 24mm. To include the mw in landscapes, probably just 14-24mm. The land composition is what makes a milky way scene, I think.
For Spring, I'd scout your location during the day. Return during total darkness and catch the milky way scene. Wait for the morning twilight to capture a low noise, high f-stop, focused for the land, shadowless foreground.
You should have an f2.8 wide angle lens for untracked astro-landscapes. I'd get either the Tamron 15-30mm, canon 16-35mm m3, or a Samyang 14mm. If you won't use it often, just rent it. Don't rent a Samyang unless you know it is well centered.
Safety:
Being out in the middle of the night by yourself is a different and wonderful experience you have to get used to. If there aren't grizzlies around, then don't worry about it and have fun.
Getting lost, tripping falling and breaking an ankle, dehydration, and hypothermia are greater concerns, but mostly avoidable. Make sure someone knows where you are going and when you will check back in.
Apps:
Sky Safari is a simple app to plan your milky way time and direction.
Lunasolcal mobile for sunrise/moonrise sunset/moonset times.
Blue light filter to turn your screen red.
Clear sky droid will predict sky cover.
The Photographers Ephemeris and PlanIt! are more complicated than is necessary for casual and limited use.
Tracker:
Without practice in advance or natural talent, a tracker at night is pretty complicated. Everything is harder to do at night. It does improve the image IQ a lot though. For focal lengths over 35mm, you'll want to use a tracker.
Access to locations:
National Parks are open all night long which is good for milky way.
State parks generally close from dusk to dawn. You can legally stay in the state park if you rent a campsite, even if you simply sleep in your car.
Refuges are generally closed overnight to all visitors.
p.1 #3 · Beginner Astrophotography (Milky Way and Star Trails) - 24mm Wide Enough?
Hard to determine "what [you] want to do,” but I find 24mm is a good FL for MW shots. If you want the whole width, just make a pano. Last summer I rented a Canon EF 11-24mm f/4L to shoot the Mw in Hawaii—-worked well. F/4 is adequate if at a dark site, but 2.8 or faster is better.
Trackers work fine for longer (>30 sec.) exposures of the sky, but will force you to blend-in the foreground. Personally, I prefer a single shot. No reason you can’t get a great MW image without one.
Shoot RAW & manual-mode (focus & exposure). Pre-determine the focus point for infinity on whichever lens you use during the day so you know where it is at night. You’ll probably be shooting at ISO3200 or 6400.
Be sure you have a good remote shutter. And adhere to the “Rule of 500” whichever lens you use. Practice & experience will be your best tools.
p.1 #4 · Beginner Astrophotography (Milky Way and Star Trails) - 24mm Wide Enough?
I have used a 16-35 F4 lens for Milky Way shots on a 6D with success. You will need to use the "rule of 500" - divided by the focal length gives the maximum exposure time. With the aforementioned lens that is 30 seconds at ISO 3200. Good luck!
p.1 #5 · Beginner Astrophotography (Milky Way and Star Trails) - 24mm Wide Enough?
Ming-Tzu wrote: Safety
- Being an urbanite, I am naturally inclined to be fearful of all open spaces outside of big cities lol. Do I have to worry about animals when I'm out at these parks in the middle of the night? I'll have my head lamp if that helps at all haha
Thanks for any tips!!
I shoot alone at night all the time on the Northern Plains. Nothing out there at night that wasn't out there in the daytime. I don't think there are bears in southern Utah. I would take a honking big flashlight and shine it around a lot to spook off any 150 pound kitty cats, maybe, but other than that just do the usual precautions about walking and reaching you would do anywhere there are snakes. Personally I'd be far more afraid to walk around NYC at night than in any wilderness area.
p.1 #6 · Beginner Astrophotography (Milky Way and Star Trails) - 24mm Wide Enough?
I don't know these sites so I will limit my advice to lens. I like 15mm and ~25mm for milky way. My personal bias is to include some foreground in the shot and not to have it wildly distorted by UWA perspective - which requires pretty wide and losing some landscape off the bottom.
And my personal preference is not to track the sky - but to take foreground and sky separately and composite them - because the tracker requires extra stuff to bring along and carry and set up - that's a lot of stuff for hiking/vacation.
Thus a wide and fast lens with good coma is needed.
So I would recommend - rent from lens rentals either:
1) My preference - zeiss 15/2.8 (fast, high iq, hard stop at infinity) and zeiss 25/2 (similar but small) or
2) Tamron 15-30 /2.8 (great Iq, great coma) and zooms - the best zoom astro lens
My other advice:
1) Schedule your visit for lack of moon (new moon)
2) Set your color balance at 3500 so you don't have to fuss with different auto selections
3) what you see in the dark, will look bright, but when you see it on your screen it will look underexposed. Be careful you have tried photographing similar prior so you have a feel for right exposure so you don't go back and find them all inadequate.
4) Bring chemical hand warmers packages and an elastic band to put on your lens to avoid condensation.
p.1 #7 · Beginner Astrophotography (Milky Way and Star Trails) - 24mm Wide Enough?
Thanks for the response!! Based on seemingly overwhelming reviews, I purchased the Rokinon 14mm f/2.8 this morning from Amazon. Let's hope I hit the lotto and get a good copy! Does it make sense to also purchase the Rokinon 24mm f/1.4?
Thanks for the app suggestions as well. I also purchased the Stellarium Mobile app. I'll take a look at the other apps you mentioned and will try to figure if there's any redundancy with my app.
dgdg wrote:
focal length and lens choice:
For the milky way, 14 to 35mm are nice FL. The canon 24-70 f2.8 II is a great lens for mw at 24mm. To include the mw in landscapes, probably just 14-24mm. The land composition is what makes a milky way scene, I think.
For Spring, I'd scout your location during the day. Return during total darkness and catch the milky way scene. Wait for the morning twilight to capture a low noise, high f-stop, focused for the land, shadowless foreground.
You should have an f2.8 wide angle lens for untracked astro-landscapes. I'd get either the Tamron 15-30mm, canon 16-35mm m3, or a Samyang 14mm. If you won't use it often, just rent it. Don't rent a Samyang unless you know it is well centered.
Safety:
Being out in the middle of the night by yourself is a different and wonderful experience you have to get used to. If there aren't grizzlies around, then don't worry about it and have fun.
Getting lost, tripping falling and breaking an ankle, dehydration, and hypothermia are greater concerns, but mostly avoidable. Make sure someone knows where you are going and when you will check back in.
Apps:
Sky Safari is a simple app to plan your milky way time and direction.
Lunasolcal mobile for sunrise/moonrise sunset/moonset times.
Blue light filter to turn your screen red.
Clear sky droid will predict sky cover.
The Photographers Ephemeris and PlanIt! are more complicated than is necessary for casual and limited use.
Tracker:
Without practice in advance or natural talent, a tracker at night is pretty complicated. Everything is harder to do at night. It does improve the image IQ a lot though. For focal lengths over 35mm, you'll want to use a tracker.
Access to locations:
National Parks are open all night long which is good for milky way.
State parks generally close from dusk to dawn. You can legally stay in the state park if you rent a campsite, even if you simply sleep in your car.
Refuges are generally closed overnight to all visitors. ...Show more →
p.1 #8 · Beginner Astrophotography (Milky Way and Star Trails) - 24mm Wide Enough?
Actually, I'm less afraid of people attacking me than bears and big cats. Not sure if you were serious about taking the big flashlight to scare them away but will look into it haha
Two23 wrote:
I shoot alone at night all the time on the Northern Plains. Nothing out there at night that wasn't out there in the daytime. I don't think there are bears in southern Utah. I would take a honking big flashlight and shine it around a lot to spook off any 150 pound kitty cats, maybe, but other than that just do the usual precautions about walking and reaching you would do anywhere there are snakes. Personally I'd be far more afraid to walk around NYC at night than in any wilderness area.
p.1 #10 · Beginner Astrophotography (Milky Way and Star Trails) - 24mm Wide Enough?
you could rent a big big tripod to get more stability
pics will look different w/ vs. w/o a tracker - could be good or bad
you have to worry about animals on 2 legs in the desert (similar to parts of the city)
- there is little vegetation in the desert, thus little in the way of animals to eat it, and thus little in the way of animals to eat other animals
near water there may be more snakes, and rattlers like to hunt at night
otherwise, boots/shoes left sitting out may attract scorpions which will resent your smelly foot encroaching on their shelter in the morning...
p.1 #12 · Beginner Astrophotography (Milky Way and Star Trails) - 24mm Wide Enough?
I second the big super bright flashlight. One, it helps keep me from getting lost. Two when I have gone places in Virginia or NC, I wind up having some dog barking at me from a tree line. With a super bright LED light in the face, it tends to walk away.
I wouldn't bother with the Rokinon 24 unless you have extra room. It is quite soft wide open. Ideally you'd use it at f2. Not sure one extra stop is worth it, at least for me. Now the sigma 35 art is sweet wide open.
Scott reminded me about exposure. It will look bright on the LCD even when you under expose. You need your histogram peak around 30% to have the least noise. This will still preserve good star color but make your background as bright as possible. In post, you would increase the black point to darken the background and pp the stars and milky way separately. Under exposure is bad for the night sky.
Make sure to manually focus using live view and then tape down the focus ring. Except for Scott's Zeiss rec, infinity marks are not reliable.
p.1 #13 · Beginner Astrophotography (Milky Way and Star Trails) - 24mm Wide Enough?
In lieu of a bright flashlight, I plan on having a headlamp. I have the Black Diamond Revolt if that helps. Should be good enough I imagine.
With regards to the Rokinon 24, I actually just purchased from Amazon. Shipping is supposedly 2-4 weeks so may cancel before that time frame expires, but wanted to lock in the price for now. It's $100 less than what's showing on the B&H website. Not sure why that is but I dig it, unless I bought the wrong one, which I don't think I did lol. If I have to stop down to f2, I may have reconsider. Ian at Lonely Speck indicated that he has no issues with using the lens wide open for astro, so interesting that you have a somewhat different perspective. Will need to think about it.
p.1 #15 · Beginner Astrophotography (Milky Way and Star Trails) - 24mm Wide Enough?
Ming-Tzu wrote:
Actually, I'm less afraid of people attacking me than bears and big cats. Not sure if you were serious about taking the big flashlight to scare them away but will look into it haha
I'm quite serious about using a powerful flashlight to scare mountain lions off. (I have a small 20 ga. shotgun slung on my shoulder if that were to ever fail when in really remote areas.) I'm also quite serious about being far more fearful of city criminals than any wildlife. Mountain lions don't carry guns, and are much more honest to deal with.
p.1 #16 · Beginner Astrophotography (Milky Way and Star Trails) - 24mm Wide Enough?
Ming-Tzu wrote:
In lieu of a bright flashlight, I plan on having a headlamp. I have the Black Diamond Revolt if that helps. Should be good enough I imagine.
.
I just looked up the specs. The Revolt is a paltry 200 lumens. That's nothing in a wilderness. There is no way I'd head off into wilderness with something like that as my brightest light. It just isn't enough--outdoors at night really eats up light. It's also mounted on your head so you can't swing it about, scanning as you walk. It would be OK when you arrive and are setting up, but otherwise very inadequate. I always take two powerful lights with me along with a small headlight like you have. I ALWAYS have a powerful backup light for when something happens to the main light. I'm out alone in very remote areas on the Northern Plains two or three nights a week, and have experience. I suggest a hand held flashlight with at least 800 lumens. Mine are 1200 lumens.
p.1 #17 · Beginner Astrophotography (Milky Way and Star Trails) - 24mm Wide Enough?
Thanks! Will look into the high powered flashlights. You're scaring me about mountain lions. Makes me want to stay in the confines of my hotel room at night instead of going out to take pictures, which no one will find because I'll be a tasty meal for one, or several, lucky lions
p.1 #18 · Beginner Astrophotography (Milky Way and Star Trails) - 24mm Wide Enough?
Ming-Tzu wrote:
In lieu of a bright flashlight, I plan on having a headlamp. I have the Black Diamond Revolt if that helps. Should be good enough I imagine.
With regards to the Rokinon 24, I actually just purchased from Amazon. Shipping is supposedly 2-4 weeks so may cancel before that time frame expires, but wanted to lock in the price for now. It's $100 less than what's showing on the B&H website. Not sure why that is but I dig it, unless I bought the wrong one, which I don't think I did lol. If I have to stop down to f2, I may have reconsider. Ian at Lonely Speck indicated that he has no issues with using the lens wide open for astro, so interesting that you have a somewhat different perspective. Will need to think about it....Show more →
The 24mm is a good lens. Don't get me wrong. I had it briefly but just not enough room in the bag. I researched the lens and found comparisons at f2 vs wide open. I clearly benefits from stopping down to f2. How much it matters for your Astro depends. I'd check the moon phase though while your away. My wife used to tease me when I was planning some trips out west. "So that's when it's a new moon?!?!". I'd joke, "hey, wow it is!".
p.1 #20 · Beginner Astrophotography (Milky Way and Star Trails) - 24mm Wide Enough?
Ming-Tzu wrote:
Thanks! Will look into the high powered flashlights. You're scaring me about mountain lions. Makes me want to stay in the confines of my hotel room at night instead of going out to take pictures, which no one will find because I'll be a tasty meal for one, or several, lucky lions
My wife worries about bears. I once wrote a post about photo'ing Yellowstone geysors at night, and going out alone to do it. Wife kept going on and on about "You'll get et by a bear!" Next morning I was reading a local newspaper and the headline was "Missing Park Employee Found--Et by a Bear." I hid that paper really fast! I think you'll be fine. A mountain lion's territory is huge and the odds of encountering one are extremely slim. I've seen exactly two in my lifetime. Take a powerful flashlight, sweep it side to side and every now and then behind you and I really don't think you'll have any trouble. If possible, take someone along with you--preferably someone who runs slower than you.
