fredmiranda.com
Login

C-sonnar!

  
 
brendans
Offline
Details
p.26 #1C-sonnar!
I keep meaning to try one but Ming Thein raved about the C/Y 85/2.8 on the A7rii and said his copy was better than several copies of the 100/3.5 he tested.
Dec 16, 2016 at 09:57 AM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
Details
p.26 #2C-sonnar!
brendans wrote:
I keep meaning to try one but Ming Thein raved about the C/Y 85/2.8 on the A7rii and said his copy was better than several copies of the 100/3.5 he tested.


I know for sure the CY 100/3.5 is an amazing lens at infinity distances. (very sharp to the very corners at f/5.6)
Dec 16, 2016 at 11:33 AM
nehemiahphoto
Online
Details
p.26 #3C-sonnar!
I own the sony 85 2.8, which is a copy of the Sonnar 85 but with better mfd. IQ is extremely impressive. At similar apertures it went neck for neck with the ZA 85. Cheap build, but mine costs $150 but probably the best value of any lens I've shot. At 2.8 is great, even at 36+ MP sometimes I kick around getting the CY version for the t* coating.




Dec 16, 2016 at 11:40 AM
rji2goleez
Offline
Details
p.26 #4C-sonnar!
Fred Miranda wrote:
brendans wroteI keep meaning to try one but Ming Thein raved about the C/Y 85/2.8 on the A7rii and said his copy was better than several copies of the 100/3.5 he tested.
I know for sure the CY 100/3.5 is an amazing lens at infinity distances. (very sharp to the very corners at f/5.6)


I have one and I like it as well. But I'm thinking of putting this up for sale as my kit is crowded at this FL. Anyone interested, please pm.
Dec 16, 2016 at 11:42 AM
robgo2
Offline
Details
p.26 #5C-sonnar!
Fred Miranda wrote:
robgo2 wrote
Fred Miranda wrote
candreyo wroteHi,
Zeiss did put out a 85mm f2 Sonnar version, but it was discontinued after 600 production units and cost over $3,000 on the used market now.

I actually am fortunate to own a copy, but with that said, when I tested it against the Zeiss 85mm Batis, the bokeh between the two is very similar, but the Batis is much sharper.

nehemiahphoto wroteI love the ZM 50 1.5--it's going to get quite some use this Christmas. I wish Zeiss put out a 85mm version...a trio of the 35, 50 1.5 and 85 f2 would be superb.
The ZM 85/2 was a great lens as you wrote, but was not very sharp wide open and not as good as the Leica 90/2 AA controlling aberrations, especially LoCA.

I do wish my ZM 85/4 was a f/2.8 though.
For that there is the C/Y 85/2.8, which is not far behind the ZM 85/4 both in IQ and compactness.

Rob
It could be a good option Rob. Have you tried it at infinity distances?
I trust Zeiss MTF graphs and according to it, the ZM 85/4 is superior towards the edges. The C/Y 85/2.8 does very well in the center. They both have 5 elements but the ZM has a 10-blade aperture.

See the MTF wide open and 2 stops down for each lens:


Fred,

Yes, I have tried the C/Y 85/2.8 at infinity on my A7ii (in fact, just this morning,) and I think that it is already good at f5.6 and very good at f8. No, it is not quite the equal at the edges of the ZM 85/4, which I also own, but it is no slouch either. So, as with all lenses, it involves compromises: You give up a bit of sharpness for landscapes but gain a bit of speed for low light and portraits. Also it has lovely bokeh, in my estimation. To summarize, the C/Y is a very good all-around short tele, especially well suited for travel, given its compactness and low weight. As you know, this lens and its cousin the Contax G 90/2.8 have a lot of fans, and it's not without good reason.

Rob
Dec 17, 2016 at 12:16 PM
hanay78
Offline
Details
p.26 #6C-sonnar!
Sorry for reviving this old thread but I was going through it and I really like a lot the delicious colors of the photographs posted! Any love still for this lens?
Sep 24, 2020 at 02:05 PM
AGeoJO
Offline
Details
p.26 #7C-sonnar!
hanay78 wrote:
Sorry for reviving this old thread but I was going through it and I really like a lot the delicious colors of the photographs posted! Any love still for this lens?


The love faded quite some time ago. The latest "flavor of the month" is the Voigtlander 50mm f/2.0 APO-Lanthar or is that the Voigtlander 50mm f/1.2 Nokton? At any rate, just in case you have not noticed, the folks here on FM is such a fickle group... .
Sep 24, 2020 at 02:29 PM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
Details
p.26 #8C-sonnar!
AGeoJO wrote:
hanay78 wroteSorry for reviving this old thread but I was going through it and I really like a lot the delicious colors of the photographs posted! Any love still for this lens?
The love faded quite some time ago. The latest "flavor of the month" is the Voigtlander 50mm f/2.0 APO-Lanthar or is that the Voigtlander 50mm f/1.2 Nokton? At any rate, just in case you have not noticed, the folks here on FM is such a fickle group... .


I loved it when I had it. I'm not a big 50mm shooter though.

There is more competition coming for the C-Sonnar now:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1664238

The new Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton II seems to be about the same size and weight compared to the Zeiss 50/1.5 C-Sonnar.




Zeiss 50mm f/1.5 C-Sonnar






Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton II: Comes in all black as well

Sep 24, 2020 at 02:32 PM
philip_pj
Offline
Details
p.26 #9C-sonnar!
lol. Most people have pretty sound memories for lenses since moved along to new owners. This has never happened before - that a camera maker started up a new range to see it blossom to over 100 lenses in a few years! Not counting heritage lenses many of us cherish.

I really like this C-Sonnar one from testing in normal climates but it was just so contrasty in the Himalaya - I say Himalaya because many here shoot in the pleasant pastoral Rockies and Europe's kilometres lower mountain ranges. I now believe the C-S was made for Leica's film cameras (slow to catch on there) where emulsion choice can moderate what comes out if it, and many of those guys are BW only or mostly.

A lot of images never 'came back' to where I was happy with them (I've always said Sony recovery is better from the bottom end). And post work was going to be a never-ending hardship for the exact same reasons we like the colours. They are not easily moved!

Luckily I was able to sell it. I have this vision that Cosina will go bust with like 46 different 35-50mm lenses in their current catalogue with no more super E-mount optics. I like them all from images seen but I've got what I need, the APO-Lanthar. It gets fidgety waiting for the word to go, post-corona.
Sep 24, 2020 at 03:11 PM
expwmbat
Offline
Details
p.26 #10C-sonnar!
hanay78 wrote:
Sorry for reviving this old thread but I was going through it and I really like a lot the delicious colors of the photographs posted! Any love still for this lens?


I still have it and love it. As a result I’m really not interested in the other 50s that seem to have taken up everyone else’s attention. However, it sounds like philip_pj has found it too contrasty under the high altitude conditions he experiences—my guess is that the overall brightness of those environments is the reason, as I have also found the lens to be very contrasty when the light is bright, and it loses some subtlety then. But so do many lenses—those are tough conditions. It really shines at the other end of that spectrum, particularly the colors.

At any rate, mine isn’t going anywhere, and while I don’t use it for infinity landscape (which I generally don’t do anyway), I find it to be excellent for the rest of the landscape images I like to make. One just has to work within the limits of the len’s character as it changes with different f stops.

Best wishes,
Daniel
Sep 24, 2020 at 03:28 PM
 


Search in Used Dept. 

DavidBM
Offline
Details
p.26 #11C-sonnar!
AGeoJO wrote:
hanay78 wroteSorry for reviving this old thread but I was going through it and I really like a lot the delicious colors of the photographs posted! Any love still for this lens?
The love faded quite some time ago. The latest "flavor of the month" is the Voigtlander 50mm f/2.0 APO-Lanthar or is that the Voigtlander 50mm f/1.2 Nokton? At any rate, just in case you have not noticed, the folks here on FM is such a fickle group... .


I still love it and use it from time to time.

But it’s not a technically good lens. Low colour saturation, moderate sharpness, spherical aberration all over the show, and at least on Sony never gets very sharp in the outer field (and a ray angle which would make it very hard to correct using PCX filters).

But I like the Sonnar bokeh and the overall look, and the c sonnar performs better than a classic Opton or Jena copy while preserving that overall look.

The new Nokton will be interesting. It could looks like a Sonnar with more even sharpness, or it could be an attempt to get as close to optimal a technical performance as possible given the speed and compact size. Not sure which I prefer!
Sep 24, 2020 at 06:39 PM
AGeoJO
Offline
Details
p.26 #12C-sonnar!
Of course, the point I made above pertains to my situation only. There is no way that I would be able to know who still uses that lens or even still has that lens. I went for it 4 years ago since the offering of Sony E-mount lenses was somewhat sparse back then. Of course, the availability of TAP made it easier to adapt that lens. In my situation, if I don’t use a lens, pretty much any lens, in 6 months, I will sell it. And please, don’t get me wrong, it was a great lens alright. I bought a mint used copy and when I sold it, I didn’t take that much hit. It would have been a significantly larger hit, had I sold it now.
Sep 24, 2020 at 07:49 PM
Fred Miranda
Offline
Admin
Upload & Sell: On
Details
p.26 #13C-sonnar!
DavidBM wrote:
AGeoJO wrote
hanay78 wroteSorry for reviving this old thread but I was going through it and I really like a lot the delicious colors of the photographs posted! Any love still for this lens?
The love faded quite some time ago. The latest "flavor of the month" is the Voigtlander 50mm f/2.0 APO-Lanthar or is that the Voigtlander 50mm f/1.2 Nokton? At any rate, just in case you have not noticed, the folks here on FM is such a fickle group... .
I still love it and use it from time to time.

But it’s not a technically good lens. Low colour saturation, moderate sharpness, spherical aberration all over the show, and at least on Sony never gets very sharp in the outer field (and a ray angle which would make it very hard to correct using PCX filters).

But I like the Sonnar bokeh and the overall look, and the c sonnar performs better than a classic Opton or Jena copy while preserving that overall look.

The new Nokton will be interesting. It could looks like a Sonnar with more even sharpness, or it
...Show more →

I think the new CV 50/1.5 Nokton will be far from technically perfect but perhaps it will perform similarly to the CV 75/1.5 Nokton. If this is the case, it will be a high resolution lens (starting at f/2.8) with a pleasant character and rendering wide open. I don't expect to see low axial CA, low vignetting or very sharp corners wide open though.

I revisited the ZM 50/1.5 a few months ago on the Leica but wasn't very impressed even though I still like the funky rendering wide open. I much prefer the CV 50/1.2 Nokton but it's much heavier than the Sonnar. The new 50/1.5 could be a great compromise.
Sep 24, 2020 at 08:07 PM
genji
Offline
Details
p.26 #14C-sonnar!
DavidBM wrote:
AGeoJO wrote
hanay78 wroteSorry for reviving this old thread but I was going through it and I really like a lot the delicious colors of the photographs posted! Any love still for this lens?
The love faded quite some time ago. The latest "flavor of the month" is the Voigtlander 50mm f/2.0 APO-Lanthar or is that the Voigtlander 50mm f/1.2 Nokton? At any rate, just in case you have not noticed, the folks here on FM is such a fickle group... .
I still love it and use it from time to time.

But it’s not a technically good lens. Low colour saturation, moderate sharpness, spherical aberration all over the show, and at least on Sony never gets very sharp in the outer field (and a ray angle which would make it very hard to correct using PCX filters).

But I like the Sonnar bokeh and the overall look, and the c sonnar performs better than a classic Opton or Jena copy while preserving that overall look.

The new Nokton will be interesting. It could looks like a Sonnar with more even sharpness, or it
...Show more →

I still love and use mine from time to time too but some people seem not to realize that it’s a highly specialised tool. The C Sonnar is not The One Well Behaved 50 to Rule Them All and anyone who purchases it with that expectation is headed for certain disappointment. I use a 50mm lens for about 80% of the pictures I make and there are half a dozen 50s I use more frequently than the C Sonnar but what it provides on those comparatively rare occasions when I do need it makes this unique lens well worth keeping.
Sep 24, 2020 at 08:13 PM
DavidBM
Offline
Details
p.26 #15C-sonnar!
AGeoJO wrote:
Of course, the point I made above pertains to my situation only. There is no way that I would be able to know who still uses that lens or even still has that lens. I went for it 4 years ago since the offering of Sony E-mount lenses was somewhat sparse back then. Of course, the availability of TAP made it easier to adapt that lens. In my situation, if I don’t use a lens, pretty much any lens, in 6 months, I will sell it. And please, don’t get me wrong, it was a great lens alright. I bought
...Show more →

I didn't think you were dissing the lens, Joshua, just thought you were making the point that the huge popular enthusiasm for it has waned to say the least.

I always liked it (and reviewed it at https://phillipreeve.net/blog/carl-zeiss-c-sonnar-t-50mm-f1-5-zm-a-detailed-review/)

I reviewed it favourably, and liked it then and now.

By I was always mystified by the general love and enthusiasm for it that peaked for a while. As others above have commented, (and as I hope I made clear in my review) it was always a special tool for a particular look, not a high performance general purpose lens. As such it should only appeal to people who are mad enough or rich enough to own a few fifties...
Sep 24, 2020 at 08:30 PM
nehemiahphoto
Online
Details
p.26 #16C-sonnar!
To me this lens is an all-time great, and one of the best character lenses in production.

I only have 2 50mm’s, and this is one of them. Still use it regularly, on film and digital. The new CVs and other 50s have not had much appeal to me although I have tried and owned several.

I just wish it were better on a stocky Sony, and an extra 25mm--not a 50mm guy really.





WO (should have been at f2!)







F2







tri-x400

Sep 24, 2020 at 11:06 PM
hanay78
Offline
Details
p.26 #17C-sonnar!
In the photographs of the thread, from two or three years ago colors are delicious. I do not find so in most of the favoured/fashionable lenses of the last time, but this, and the zm 34 f1.4 and zm 85 f4 are fantastic!
Sep 25, 2020 at 01:42 AM
expwmbat
Offline
Details
p.26 #18C-sonnar!
I agree with nehemiahphoto—for me this lens is virtually unmatched as a character lens. It has enough sharpness (though my second copy is considerably better than my first—the first was fine the second more than sharp enough), but the rendering just has magic to it when you get it right. There are many very good 50s, but nothing else has the look of the C-Sonnar. It’s the only 50 I use (although I own another) because the rendering/draw/contrast/colors bring real character I want in my images.

Really it’s a matter of where your priorities are in making images. For most it appears that sharpness rules—plenty of competing options for that (although I think most overstate the increased advantage of modern lenses, as in my experience many vintage lenses are every bit as sharp compared head to head). For some flatness of field matters—certainly this is valuable for some images (I use a different lens when this is necessary).

In the beautiful images I come back to (of my own and others), the qualities of modern lenses are rarely what makes the image. Indeed, I often wish those qualities would get out of the way. The C-Sonnar allows that.

DJK
Sep 25, 2020 at 04:30 AM
nehemiahphoto
Online
Details
p.26 #19C-sonnar!
I could not agree more.

I often find the most of the modern glass I own does not make the best images to my taste. I find I predominantly use modern glass for some type of optical correction (coma), features (AF) or size. In terms of aesthetics, I am not overly concerned with flare resistance, corner sharpness, flat field or some CA at the expense of rendering.

I have a surprising amount of all time-keepers from a relatively small smattering of lenses: Lux 75/80, ZM 50 1.5, G21, G28, Pentax 31, RX1, CY 35 1.4, Minolta 100/2, Minolta 58 1.2, CY 50 1.7, Sonnetar 73 1.5 and GM 24 1.4.

Given the amount of lenses I've used and photos I've shot, it's quite a small number of lenses. Most are out of production, and the one in production are more rendering based. Very much against the consensus of FM with CV and Sigma lenses being favored.

Anyway, I just simply love the ZM 50 1.5. I recently swapped out my silver copy for a black copy optimized for f1.5. I really like it from f1.5 to f2.8 at MFD within 10 feet especially. I wish people would post more Sonnar photos on here too.























Portra 160 Zm 50 1.5 @ 2.8

Sep 25, 2020 at 11:08 AM
hanay78
Offline
Details
p.26 #20C-sonnar!
the flowers look so delicate! nice shots!

nehemiahphoto wrote:
I could not agree more.

I often find the most of the modern glass I own does not make the best images to my taste. I find I predominantly use modern glass for some type of optical correction (coma), features (AF) or size. In terms of aesthetics, I am not overly concerned with flare resistance, corner sharpness, flat field or some CA at the expense of rendering.

I have a surprising amount of all time-keepers from a relatively small smattering of lenses: Lux 75/80, ZM 50 1.5, G21, G28, Pentax 31, RX1, CY 35 1.4, Minolta 100/2, Minolta 58 1.2, CY
...Show more →

Sep 26, 2020 at 12:06 PM


FM ForumsSony ForumJoin Upload & Sell
  
 

You are not logged inLog inRegister