p.51 #2 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
The 8K - is it with one lens? Which one? Or all 3? (I am sure of just one - but one rumor earlier said all 3 lenses would be for the 8K)
Dec 28, 2016 at 01:31 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.51 #3 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Delatant wrote:
The 8K - is it with one lens? Which one? Or all 3? (I am sure of just one - but one rumor earlier said all 3 lenses would be for the 8K)
I have thought that the camera alone would be about $6,000 and this seems consistent with that. I also expect that the price with one lens will be with the zoom, but I suppose I could be wrong. Either the 45 or the 63 might be packaged with the camera as well.
p.51 #6 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
chez wrote:
I'm still wanting to see a good side by side test between something like the A7R2...better yet the next generation model with the higher resolution sensor and these ( Fuji / Hassy ) MF cameras. Does the price premium one pays for the MF camera justify with image quality in the end. The limited ( at least right now ) lens selection is one concerning issue as if these MF cameras are to replace my FF system they need to be used in different scenarios from landscape to street shooting...
This will be very interesting. Of course the larger sensor will provide better DR, tonality and medium format feel, but is it worth it ? The argument is no different in comparing FF with APS-C or smaller sensors and how they are implemented. We will have a spectrum of choices, but at this pricing level even with the AUD, I am very interested in the GFX.
Personally I see quite a market for the GFX, and it will be targeted at many pros/advanced photogs who would be buying the latest DSLR where the price, size and weight are comparable if not better in some instances.
Kudos to Fuji, as this is smart marketing on their behalf. They have a number of serious photographers demonstrating the GFX illustrating different disciplines and how these photographers relate.
p.51 #7 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
charles.K wrote:
This will be very interesting. Of course the larger sensor will provide better DR, tonality and medium format feel, but is it worth it ? The argument is no different in comparing FF with APS-C or smaller sensors and how they are implemented. We will have a spectrum of choices, but at this pricing level even with the AUD, I am very interested in the GFX.
Personally I see quite a market for the GFX, and it will be targeted at many pros/advanced photogs who would be buying the latest DSLR where the price, size and weight are comparable if not better in some instances.
Kudos to Fuji, as this is smart marketing on their behalf. They have a number of serious photographers demonstrating the GFX illustrating different disciplines and how these photographers relate. ...Show more →
But with a FF system you get a very mature product with an extremely extensive selection of lenses and other supporting gear like elaborate flash systems etc... With these new MF systems you basically get a bare bones system until when...at a higher price.
Will these MF systems excel at landscape photography? Will there be a lens to match the Loxia 21mm. What about the Nikon 14-24...let's not even get into the great TSE lenses out there. I'd say FF including mirrorless FF is better for landscape due to the vast range of options.
Ok...what about travel photography...nope...too many mirrorless systems out there already which excel for travel.
What about wedding? Ummm...sort of the world of today's FF cameras with their great high ISO abilities and flash systems and fast glass.
We are eroding the areas where a MF system could excel at...turning it into a niche market.
I'd love one for my landscape photography, but I feel the lenses are not there yet and the impact on large prints versus the 70mpix FF camera is still unknown. I'll definitely wait until two things happen:
1. Fuji or Hassy fully layout their systems. I want some assurance on glass and timeframes.
2. A test between Fuji / Hassy and the next generation full frame camera printed to 60"x40" or so.
I'm definitely not buying one on impulse because it's the latest shiny marble...equipment is getting so good now that it is getting much tougher to deferential top of the line systems from one another.
Dec 28, 2016 at 07:23 PM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.51 #8 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
chez wrote:
But with a FF system you get a very mature product with an extremely extensive selection of lenses and other supporting gear like elaborate flash systems etc... With these new MF systems you basically get a bare bones system until when...at a higher price.
Will these MF systems excel at landscape photography? Will there be a lens to match the Loxia 21mm. What about the Nikon 14-24...let's not even get into the great TSE lenses out there. I'd say FF including mirrorless FF is better for landscape due to the vast range of options.
Ok...what about travel photography...nope...too many mirrorless systems out there already which excel for travel.
What about wedding? Ummm...sort of the world of today's FF cameras with their great high ISO abilities and flash systems and fast glass.
We are eroding the areas where a MF system could excel at...turning it into a niche market.
I'd love one for my landscape photography, but I feel the lenses are not there yet and the impact on large prints versus the 70mpix FF camera is still unknown. I'll definitely wait until two things happen:
1. Fuji or Hassy fully layout their systems. I want some assurance on glass and timeframes.
2. A test between Fuji / Hassy and the next generation full frame camera printed to 60"x40" or so.
I'm definitely not buying one on impulse because it's the latest shiny marble...equipment is getting so good now that it is getting much tougher to deferential top of the line systems from one another....Show more →
Chez, the Hassy uses a fully compatible Nikon flash system, so flash for that camera is very well in hand. I suspect the Fuji won't be far behind if any. The Hassy also has the advantage of very fast flash sync due to the leaf shutters in the lenses, so it should be excellent with flash. As far as a competitor for the Loxia 21, well probably not at that size, but the Hassy HCD 24 f/4.8 is a very strong lens and will provide great wide angle right away for the Hassy. Fuji is also making a 23mm that is likely to be excellent. So both miniMF mirrorless systems should have excellent very wide angle options. We will see about TS lenses, but I expect there will be options for both systems. Hassy has the TS adapter for the H lenses that will be available right away and will work with most of the H lenses.. It won't compete with a 17mm TSE, but with the HCD 24, it will be a bit wider than the 24 TSE, and with the HC 50 f/3.5 should make a good close to 35mm equivalent.. I also suspect that enterprising users will be able to adapt large format lenses on a bellows system as well. This is likely to be easier with the Fuji, but I think it will be possible with the Hassy as well. So, both systems ought to have decent TS options as well. So, I think these miniMF systems will work well for landscapes and have excellent flash capabilities. The Hassy system also has a pretty wide range of lenses available right away as it can use Hassy H lenses. The Fuji before long will likely have even more options. They seem committed to 6 lenses by the end of 2017 and they will likely be able to use a lot of adapted lenses. So, I do think there will be some limits on the systems initially but not a year from now.
I think you make a good point, however, about travel. These systems will be smaller than existing MF system but really not smaller than a FF DSLR system, so for travel FF mirrorless will still be quite a bit smaller.
p.51 #9 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
chez wrote:
But with a FF system you get a very mature product with an extremely extensive selection of lenses and other supporting gear like elaborate flash systems etc... With these new MF systems you basically get a bare bones system until when...at a higher price.
Will these MF systems excel at landscape photography? Will there be a lens to match the Loxia 21mm. What about the Nikon 14-24...let's not even get into the great TSE lenses out there. I'd say FF including mirrorless FF is better for landscape due to the vast range of options.
Ok...what about travel photography...nope...too many mirrorless systems out there already which excel for travel.
What about wedding? Ummm...sort of the world of today's FF cameras with their great high ISO abilities and flash systems and fast glass.
We are eroding the areas where a MF system could excel at...turning it into a niche market.
I'd love one for my landscape photography, but I feel the lenses are not there yet and the impact on large prints versus the 70mpix FF camera is still unknown. I'll definitely wait until two things happen:
1. Fuji or Hassy fully layout their systems. I want some assurance on glass and timeframes.
2. A test between Fuji / Hassy and the next generation full frame camera printed to 60"x40" or so.
I'm definitely not buying one on impulse because it's the latest shiny marble...equipment is getting so good now that it is getting much tougher to deferential top of the line systems from one another....Show more →
Chez, this will not take away from existing FF DSLR/mirrorless, APS-C or smaller format systems. In fact the M10 to be announced sounds very exciting also. The spectrum for camera systems is becoming superb with image quality being harder to differentiate what we really want
I have always loved the files from medium format and in the past the ability to process images has been a lot more difficult. The GFX will not make the system alone, but the combination of great lenses will define the success of the system and make for an excellent platform. The Hassy also is superb.
For many who choose mini MF, I suspect most will only have a few lenses at most. In the past I did have one or two favorite lenses and this was more than enough.
For travel we have too many options now. I would use the Fuji XT2 system, unless I had planned a special photographic journey where I would take a FF or mini MF.
p.51 #10 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
charles.K wrote:
Chez, this will not take away from existing FF DSLR/mirrorless, APS-C or smaller format systems. In fact the M10 to be announced sounds very exciting also. The spectrum for camera systems is becoming superb with image quality being harder to differentiate what we really want
I have always loved the files from medium format and in the past the ability to process images has been a lot more difficult. The GFX will not make the system alone, but the combination of great lenses will define the success of the system and make for an excellent platform. The Hassy also is superb.
For many who choose mini MF, I suspect most will only have a few lenses at most. In the past I did have one or two favorite lenses and this was more than enough.
For travel we have too many options now. I would use the Fuji XT2 system, unless I had planned a special photographic journey where I would take a FF or mini MF.
The thing I'm trying to understand is when the Sony FF system was released...it was lambasted for not having a full spread of lenses...yet a mini MF system with a very limited number of lenses is OK. I don't get this logic....
I keep hearing people will skip FF and jump right into mini MF...yet with FF the limited lenses was really an issue, but not so with MF?
p.51 #11 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
chez wrote:
The thing I'm trying to understand is when the Sony FF system was released...it was lambasted for not having a full spread of lenses...yet a mini MF system with a very limited number of lenses is OK. I don't get this logic....
I keep hearing people will skip FF and jump right into mini MF...yet with FF the limited lenses was really an issue, but not so with MF?
The GFX like Hassy being a mini MF, most people do not look at an huge array of lenses. Of course with FF the competition is very mature with Nikon/Canon/Leica with a huge array of lenses to choose from.
The Leica M9/M240 I always loved to use with a select few lenses. The RX1rII is another camera system that simplifies our choices. In many ways a great system does not require many lenses and very much depending on what you want
p.51 #12 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
charles.K wrote:
The GFX like Hassy being a mini MF, most people do not look at an huge array of lenses. Of course with FF the competition is very mature with Nikon/Canon/Leica with a huge array of lenses to choose from.
The Leica M9/M240 I always loved to use with a select few lenses. The RX1rII is another camera system that simplifies our choices. In many ways a great system does not require many lenses and very much depending on what you what
I guess I'd be looking at a full frame replacement. I don't buy the line that MF is ok with a limited set of lenses. Why do you say this? Wouldn't the mini MF be a replacement for FF?
p.51 #13 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
chez wrote:
I guess I'd be looking at a full frame replacement. I don't buy the line that MF is ok with a limited set of lenses. Why do you say this? Wouldn't the mini MF be a replacement for FF?
Maybe other people feel differently however I don't view a MF (mini or otherwise) as a "do it all" system camera the way any of the other manufacturers would advertise/market their full frame cameras. With Sony's line-up, you could conceivably use your A7 for weddings, commercial use, landscape, etc, with some level of compromise.
I think where Fuji wants to position this GFX is for commercial/fine art use. If I bought it, I'd use it for all my portrait sessions - so there's a 63mm and 110mm which will probably be excellent for that, and maybe I'd use or rent the 45mm for a lifestyle shoot or an environmental portrait. Or maybe I take it with me on a trip to Yosemite or Death Valley. There's a wide zoom and UWA I'd want to bring. I am not into macro photography, but they have one of those lenses too. That's all 6 lenses with what I think Fuji figures the desired audience would be using this for.
I would never really consider the GFX as a great camera to bring on a two week trip to a foreign country or shoot a wedding - I'd just bring an X-T1/2 for that.
p.51 #14 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
chez wrote:
I guess I'd be looking at a full frame replacement. I don't buy the line that MF is ok with a limited set of lenses. Why do you say this? Wouldn't the mini MF be a replacement for FF?
Chez, I have previously had a Hassleblad for about 2 years with 3 lenses. This was more than enough, while I still had my 35mm FF film camera along side. I found I was mainly just using two of theses lenses. Of course with my Nikon FF 35mm system I had a number of lenses.
I am not looking at a FF replacement, but a larger sensor capable of better DR, larger format perspective, rendering and IQ. For portraits I have always loved MF shots. In many ways I try to emulate this with fast lenses on both FF and APS-C for many of my portraits and street shots.
Dec 29, 2016 at 12:04 AM
Steve Spencer Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
p.51 #15 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
chez wrote:
I guess I'd be looking at a full frame replacement. I don't buy the line that MF is ok with a limited set of lenses. Why do you say this? Wouldn't the mini MF be a replacement for FF?
Medium format has always had both slow frames per second and pretty poor AF, so it has never been a FF 35mm replacement. I don't see these new mirrorless MF cameras as being used for much if any types of photography that MF hasn't traditionally been used for. They ought to be good as a studio camera, for landscapes, for portraits, and for macro work. For events including weddings, they probably won't see much use. For sports and wildlife even less. As discussed probably not for travel for most people. So, it depends on what you shoot, but I don't see it as being a FF 35mm replacement for many people, but I think it can be a step up for some types of shooting.
p.51 #16 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
I can vision many a dedicated hobbyists/enthusiasts that are currently using FF (or mirrorless) that can image themselves getting better quality images with MF going for the GHX - especially those that are using both FF and the Fuji X system. These guys include the retired and/or affluent folks that take expensive workshops with nationally known pros. This market always wants the best equipment they can get in order to propel them to the next level. (Whether that really happens or not is in question.) But if they can get a worthy photo that they could enlarge to wall-size say, it could be a life-long dream fulfilled that might not happen with mirrorless or FF. The current price point doesn't seem to me to be a roadblock. Heck, here in our area, it is not uncommon for a bass fisherman to spend $25,000 to $40,000 on a boat and an additional 10-15K on tackle equipment.
p.51 #17 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Steve Spencer wrote:
Medium format has always had both slow frames per second and pretty poor AF, so it has never been a FF 35mm replacement. I don't see these new mirrorless MF cameras as being used for much if any types of photography that MF hasn't traditionally been used for. They ought to be good as a studio camera, for landscapes, for portraits, and for macro work. For events including weddings, they probably won't see much use. For sports and wildlife even less. As discussed probably not for travel for most people. So, it depends on what you shoot, but I don't see it as being a FF 35mm replacement for many people, but I think it can be a step up for some types of shooting....Show more →
I think you're gonna end up being wrong. Talking about taking MF out of the niche and being this aggressive on pricing? I think Fuji's goal is to change all these things. Though I don't know if it'll happen until Sony makes a PDAF MF sensor.
Now, not so much sports and wildlife. Being so speed and reach dependent, I don't think those are good candidates for MF anyway.
But weddings and travel, and generally more "mainstream" (in a very relative sense, of course) adoption? I can absolutely see that. The slow shooting, the poor AF, and at least the garbage CCD low light performance, are all likely gone with this camera or the GFX II. And despite what you hear from the Leica-Reality-Distortion-Field here on Alt, a 50mp MF smaller than a D810 will look like a very small camera to a lot of high-end FF35 users.
Plus, I think taking MF out of the niche is in general a good goal. DSLR makers need to accept that they've lost the low end to smartphones. Unless CaNikon can figure out sharing/connectivity *real* fast (SnapBridge ain't doin' it), I think they're going to stop being able to sell Rebel- or D3xxx-level products. So the definition of "low end" changes. And at the same time, they've lost their high-end aspirational effect with years of lazy iteration. Why would I start with a $900 D7200 and upgrade through the ranks to a D5 when the great-condition D3 I could get for that $900 is 85% the camera a brand-new D5 is?? Nikon Forum is talking about "there won't be a D700 successor because it stole too many D3 sales" and I'm over here like "that means the D3 was under-specced, not that the D700 was over-specced, and it's a decade past time for Nikon to learn that lesson." They need a new halo product. I vote Leica S competitor.
p.51 #19 · Pre-order: Fujifilm GFX 50S Medium Format body ($6,499)
Just an aside; but as I recall, back when I bought the very first full frame Canon eos 1ds, it went for about that - body only w/o lens! And only 11 mp. This is quite astounding, the progress we've seen over these past years.
The price of the GFX body is likely 6499, and with lens 8000
This definitely is in the realm of the top end DSLR's.
Wow. If you'd told me a year ago a capable digital mini MF is hitting the market at that price I wouldn't have believed it. The FF makers will feel the GFX
