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Sony Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA tests

  
 
charles.K
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p.28 #1 · Sony Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA tests


Personally I feel the 35/1.4 ZA is one the best 35mm lenses and is one of my all time favourites. It is so smooth, yet sharp where it needs to be. Most 35mm lenses have too high micro contrast or too busy bokeh for people/group shots. And then if the 35mm don't have the harshness they tend to be older designs and then not really sharp wide open.


Jun 02, 2017 at 08:12 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.28 #2 · Sony Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA tests


charles.K wrote:
Personally I feel the 35/1.4 ZA is one the best 35mm lenses and is one of my all time favourites. It is so smooth, yet sharp where it needs to be. Most 35mm lenses have too high micro contrast or too busy bokeh for people/group shots. And then if the 35mm don't have the harshness they tend to be older designs and then not really sharp wide open.


That's the main difference between the ZA and ZM...smooth bokeh.



Jun 02, 2017 at 08:51 PM
MrTMan
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p.28 #3 · Sony Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA tests


I'm very jealous of you guys who have good copies! I got stuck with a suboptimal copy because I made the mistake of buying it from a retailer with no return policy (this was before the quality issues with this lens were well known) and because Sony deemed my copy "within spec" (their spec involves a test at f/4).

But even the bad copies generally have good center sharpness, according to LensRentals, and that's the case with mine.

I'm still happy to have it in my kit and it's given me some great shots. It really does have gorgeous rendering. Most of what I use it for is environmental portraits, and I generally don't place my subjects all the way on the right, so it's not that much of an issue for my purposes. I have a Loxia 35 I use for landscapes. It still annoys me to no end, though, to know that I have an imperfect copy.

I'd be willing to sell this one at a large discount in favor of a good copy, but I don't want to have to play the return game. I guess I'll wait till there's a 35/1.4 II eventually...



Jun 02, 2017 at 09:22 PM
sebboh
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p.28 #4 · Sony Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA tests


Fred Miranda wrote:
That's the main difference between the ZA and ZM...smooth bokeh.


yup, if you're going use a 35mm for mostly people the ZA is the way to go. if you're going to shoot mostly landscape the zm is the way to go imho. the cv 35/1.7 is actually a good in between in my opinion (better bokeh at mid range than the zm and better for landscape than the ZA (really great sunstars too). like the zm the cv really needs the 5m filter to shine though.




Jun 02, 2017 at 11:08 PM
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p.28 #5 · Sony Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA tests


Fred Miranda wrote:
The absence of onion ring pattern in 50/1.4 ZA's inner disks when compared to the 35/1.4 ZA is interesting.

The 35/1.4 has 3 asphericals (one of each is advanced aspherical). The 50/1.4 has 2 aspherical elements (one of each is also AA)
According to Sony's terminology, only GM lenses are designed with "Extreme Aspherical" elements (XA) and none of these lenses have it since they are ZA models. Only XA elements are produced with a new moulding process which we were told, reduce onion rings with a surface precision kept to within 0.01 micron.

Perhaps, the 50/1.4 ZA being a newer lens
...Show more

Interesting point Fred! I think it's a great solution from Sony to provide the less contrasty but laser sharp 85mm GM with ultimate bokeh balls for portrait (IMHO this lens gives much more pleasing results than the 85mm Batis for this purpose) and for general use/landscape use the 35mm/50mm 1.4 Sony Zeiss pendants. I hope they will not bring a GM version of the 35mm/50mm because I miss a little the focus button on the Sony Zeiss candidates.



Jun 03, 2017 at 03:10 AM
Jochenb
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p.28 #6 · Sony Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA tests


I agree Charles. The FE 35/1.4 is a truly excellent lens. I only sold mine to get the much smaller RX1RII.

The general opinion about a lens can really fluctuate here, interesting to see.
During the whole 35/1.4 ZM hype most of the comments that I read weren't that positive about the FE. "Mid-zone dips, horrible onion ring bokeh, too large,..."
Doesn't matter though, preferences can change over time.



Jun 03, 2017 at 04:07 AM
GMPhotography
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p.28 #7 · Sony Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA tests


Oh I hate the onion rings. I'm going to have to deal with it though.


Jun 03, 2017 at 05:35 AM
Chris_88
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p.28 #8 · Sony Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA tests


Jochenb wrote:
I agree Charles. The FE 35/1.4 is a truly excellent lens. I only sold mine to get the much smaller RX1RII.

The general opinion about a lens can really fluctuate here, interesting to see.
During the whole 35/1.4 ZM hype most of the comments that I read weren't that positive about the FE. "Mid-zone dips, horrible onion ring bokeh, too large,..."
Doesn't matter though, preferences can change over time.


Having owned both, I hear about the tradeoffs between the 35 1.4 and the RX1RII.

I think the QC issues may have led to the Sony 35 1.4 getting a bad reputation, even though it's hard to argue with the optical qualities of a properly centered copy.



Jun 03, 2017 at 07:01 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.28 #9 · Sony Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA tests


35mm seems to be a very hard focal length for which to design lenses. I think part of that is it is just that people want to do so many things with a 35mm. They want to shoot high quality landscapes. They want to shoot excellent portraits. They want to be able to shoot well at close focus. For so many people it is their default or one lens solution, so people want it to do everything. I think another part of the difficulty is that it is still wide angle enough that for SLRs designers they had to make it retrofocal to clear the mirror, and for mirrorless designers if they don't make it retrofocal it is still close enough to the sensor to have a short enough exit pupil that you have to design for the coverglass. Concretely this means that all DSLR lenses (and really any lens that is designed to be retrofocal) are going to be pretty large, and rangefinder lenses (and any non-retrofocal lens that isn't redesigned for the coverglass) are going to be compromised at least to some extent.
Sony and Zeiss seem to have developed three 35mm lenses that aren't retrofocal. One is excellent, the Sonnar in the RX1 and descendants, but it was specifically designed for then sensor and apparently sits very close to the sensor in a way that an interchangeable lens never could. The other two are small and quite good, but IMO fall a bit short of excellent. The Sony/Zeiss 35 f/2.8 is a good value and tiny, which makes it a wonderful choice for many people. It also has very few flaws. It never achieves quite excellent results either, however. And Zeiss' redesign of the ZM 35 biogon as the Loxia 35 f/2 is also a very good but not great lens, IMO. It is a great size and has good performance in many ways, but it really could be better into the corners at smaller apertures and never quite is able to achieve that.
Frankly, I think Sony and Zeiss can do better at designing for mirrorless, but both the FE 35 f/2.8 and Loxia 35 f/2 were very early developed lenses and were pushed out the door very quickly. I am hopeful that in time we will see some stronger designs (even though these aren't duds by any means, they aren't top designs either). What I would really like to see is better bokeh from the non-retrofocal designs, but that is a big challenge. I don't think I have seen any 35mm lenses that is non-retrofocal for which I actually really like the bokeh. Not the Leica M 35 f/1.4 ASPH (FLE or non-FLE); not the Zeiss ZM 35 f/1.4; not the Voigtlander 35 f/1.2 (it is pretty good at some distances and terrible at others); not the Zeiss ZM 35 f/2; not the Leica M 35 f/2 (ASPH or not); not the Zeiss 35 f/2 Contax G. The closest two are probably the Voigtlander 35 f/1.7, which I think is ok but not great; and the Leica M 35 f/1.4 (pre-ASPH) which has quite nice bokeh stopped down a bit (but it is very glowy wide open and the bokeh wide open is pretty weird at some focal lengths too). The Leica M 35 f/1.4 double ASPH might be pretty good, but I haven't seen enough samples to know really. So, it seems that designing a non-retrofocal 35mm lens with great bokeh is a challenge that hasn't really yet been met, so it would seem it is a hard challenge.
If we look at retrofocal 35mm lenses, however, a number of them have pretty decent bokeh. Starting with the Zeiss C/Y 35 f/1.4, Zeiss seems to have designed 35mm retrofocal lenses with at least pretty good bokeh. I actually think the Zeiss ZE/ZF 35 f/1.4 has very nice bokeh (if you don't look too hard in the corners) and it is my personal favourite. And as discussed here the FE 35 f/1.4 has nice smooth bokeh and if they just had avoided the onion rings I could have called it excellent. So, Sony seems with this lens and perhaps some advice from Zeiss, to have gone the retrofocal route for perhaps good reason.
In contrast 50ish mm lenses with excellent bokeh both DSLR (e.g., Canon EF 50 f/1.2L; Minolta MC 58 f/1.2; Zeiss MIlvus 50 f/1.4; Pentax K 50 f/1.4; Nikon 58 f/1.4) and rangefinder (Leica M 50 f/1.4 ASPH; Leica M 50 f/2 AA: Zeiss ZM 50 f/1.5) are not that hard to come by, and therefore I don't think it is all that surprising that both the FE 50 f/1.4 ZA and the FE 55 f/1.8 ZA are excellent lenses with quite nice bokeh. At 50mm SLR lenses don't even have to be retrofocal and that is part of the reason they can be so small. So, the distinction between SLR and rangefinder becomes less meaningful.
35mm just seems to be a much harder focal length to design for than 50mm and although the FE 35 f/1.4 ZA is not quite up to the FE 50 f/1.4 ZA, I think that is to a certain extent to be expected. It would be nice, however, if Sony gave us some type of 35mm f/1.8 or f/2 fairly soon and if they can't do that, perhaps they could at least give us an update of the FE 35 f/1.4 ZA that was made with the new lens molds and polishing and gets rid of most of the issues with the onion rings, and then increase the quality control so that fewer bad copies are out there. Then I think they could claim that the FE 35 f/1.4 ZA is a world class choice.



Jun 03, 2017 at 10:45 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.28 #10 · Sony Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA tests


GMPhotography wrote:
Oh I hate the onion rings. I'm going to have to deal with it though.


But then there is no aspherical wide angle lens free of bokeh onion rings. For example, the Batis 25/2 shows onion rings at the same level and this lens has even higher LoCA. We don't hear too much 'onion ring' or 'LoCA' issues with the Batis because it's pretty normal. Perhaps we are exacerbating something that is very common with wide angle lenses.

Having said that, let's hope there will be a new and improved Sony 28 and 35 GM using the new aspherical moulding tech for a cleaner bokeh.

Meanwhile, the 50/1.4 ZA is a different FL but could be a better choice for those looking for very low LoCA and much cleaner inner disks.

Here are examples of LoCA (high contrast scene) and onion ring pattern from Batis 25/2 images:





Batis 25/2 (wide open)







Batis 25/2 bokeh ball (different scene)




Jun 03, 2017 at 11:59 AM
 


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p.28 #11 · Sony Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA tests


Here is the worse case onion ring I found in 35/1.4 ZA images from my trip to Italy. The second image is a reduction of the ill effect in post.





original







Onion ring reduced in post




Jun 03, 2017 at 12:34 PM
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p.28 #12 · Sony Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA tests


Steve Spencer wrote:
35mm seems to be a very hard focal length for which to design lenses. I think part of that is it is just that people want to do so many things with a 35mm. They want to shoot high quality landscapes. They want to shoot excellent portraits. They want to be able to shoot well at close focus. For so many people it is their default or one lens solution, so people want it to do everything. I think another part of the difficulty is that it is still wide angle enough that for SLRs designers they had to
...Show more

The 35/2.8 ZA is not loved enough imo. Sony was able to accomplish something difficult to do in a very small lens. High contrast, low aberration (LoCA) and high resolution from center to very edges wide open. The main complain is harsher rendering at mid distance but other than that, this lens is excellent.



Jun 03, 2017 at 12:51 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.28 #13 · Sony Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA tests


Fred Miranda wrote:
The 35/2.8 ZA is not loved enough imo. Sony was able to accomplish something difficult to do in a very small lens. High contrast, low aberration (LoCA) and high resolution from center to very edges wide open. The main complain is harsher rendering at mid distances but other than that, this lens is excellent.


I don't really disagree Fred. It is very good for what it is and given the number of small 35mm lenses that do not have harsher rendering at mid distances (basically none), it has probably been held to too high of a standard. I would still love a smallish 35 which works well for landscapes, portraits, and close ups. For me that means the ZM 35 f/1.4 which is excellent for stopped down landscapes and close ups, and not too bad for portraits, bit it could really be better for portraits, but I still find it to be an excellent lens overall. I am really not in the market for an AF 35, but the Sony/Zeiss duo between them do cover almost everything that one could ask for. I just want it in one lens. Is that too much to ask? Almost certainly, but it doesn't change the fact that it is what I am looking for.



Jun 03, 2017 at 01:13 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.28 #14 · Sony Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA tests


Steve Spencer wrote:
I don't really disagree Fred. It is very good for what it is and given the number of small 35mm lenses that do not have harsher rendering at mid distances (basically none), it has probably been held to too high of a standard.


Yes exactly. Other alternatives like the Loxia and ZM do not render smooth backgrounds at mid distance either. A very small lens (actually the smallest) I've tried with smooth rendering at all distances is the CV 40/2.8 but it's only sharp in the center.



Jun 03, 2017 at 04:31 PM
sebboh
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p.28 #15 · Sony Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA tests


Steve Spencer wrote:
I would still love a smallish 35 which works well for landscapes, portraits, and close ups. For me that means the ZM 35 f/1.4 which is excellent for stopped down landscapes and close ups, and not too bad for portraits, bit it could really be better for portraits, but I still find it to be an excellent lens overall.


i really think the cv 35/1.7 doesn't get enough love in this regard. it has better bokeh than the zm at medium distance (i like the zm bokeh slightly better at mfd), doesn't lose anything to the zm for landscape, and is pretty much the same size as the FE 35/2.8. i don't like it's color palette as much as the zm, but it's a pretty awesome lens that is a nicer compromise of size/performance/draw imo.




Jun 03, 2017 at 04:46 PM
Chris_88
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p.28 #16 · Sony Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA tests


Given how people usually have a strong preference towards either a 35mm or a 50mm, I find it ironic that we're discussing the virtues of various 35mm lenses here in this 50mm f1.4 thread .

After some analysis of previous shots and use scenarios, I ended up reacquiring a rx1r2, which I found in mint condition at a decent price. As much as I like the 35 1.4, reviewing most of my shots with that lens when I had it, I hardly ever used it wide open, but primarily frequently between f1.7-f2.8. I might as well get the slightly slower Sonnar. There is also something about the rendition of the rx1r2, which is quite different from the a7rii. I like that look quite a bit. I'm going to miss the 35 zm's sunstars, though.



Jun 03, 2017 at 07:17 PM
DavidBM
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p.28 #17 · Sony Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA tests


Fred Miranda wrote:
Here is the worse case onion ring I found in 35/1.4 ZA images from my trip to Italy. The second image is a reduction of the ill effect in post.


It's funny how people's taste varies.
Onion rings don't worry me really, don't like them but don't care much.

Axial colour I really hate. LoCA seems to killer the purity of the bokeh, when it's a bit of bokeh fringing it can be dealt with but in some cases it just messes up areas that are OOF ina way that is really hard or impossible to fix.



Jun 03, 2017 at 07:36 PM
freaklikeme
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p.28 #18 · Sony Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA tests


Steve Spencer wrote:
I don't really disagree Fred. It is very good for what it is and given the number of small 35mm lenses that do not have harsher rendering at mid distances (basically none), it has probably been held to too high of a standard. I would still love a smallish 35 which works well for landscapes, portraits, and close ups. For me that means the ZM 35 f/1.4 which is excellent for stopped down landscapes and close ups, and not too bad for portraits, bit it could really be better for portraits, but I still find it to be an
...Show more

I have a two-sided M cap with the pre-A Summilux 35 and ZM Distagon 35 attached. It's not a small combo, exactly (smaller than any fast SLR 35) but it doesn't leave me wanting for anything. That's my solution to the 35mm conundrum.



Jun 03, 2017 at 10:24 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.28 #19 · Sony Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA tests


sebboh wrote:
i really think the cv 35/1.7 doesn't get enough love in this regard. it has better bokeh than the zm at medium distance (i like the zm bokeh slightly better at mfd), doesn't lose anything to the zm for landscape, and is pretty much the same size as the FE 35/2.8. i don't like it's color palette as much as the zm, but it's a pretty awesome lens that is a nicer compromise of size/performance/draw imo.



Derek,
I agree with you, but I still wish the CV 35 f/1.7 was a bit better for portraits. I just think the SLR lenses work better for portraits. You have certainly made great use of the Zeiss CY 35 f/1.4 and I have always liked the Zeiss ZE/ZF 35 f/1.4. Both are very nice but awfully large (especially the ZE/ZF) on the Sony cameras. I think I am going to pick up a Leica R 35 f/2 vII for portraits. I used to have this lens and it has wonderful bokeh, IMO, much better than any of the rangefinder lenses including the Voigtlander 35 f/1.7. The Leica does have a zone B dip, but that doesn't really bother me too much for portraits. The middle third of the frame is pretty sharp even from wide open which allows decent framing with the 4 X 5 crop I prefer for portraits. It would likely drive others, crazy, however, and is way behind the Zeiss C/Y in that aspect--the Zeiss C/Y has great coverage across most of the frame. Still the R 35 f/2 is notably smaller--hardly bigger than the ZM 35 f/1.4--and I think will pair with it very nicely. The ZM for stopped down landscapes and close ups and the Leica R for portraits.



Jun 03, 2017 at 10:24 PM
VeniceBeach
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p.28 #20 · Sony Planar T* FE 50/1.4 ZA tests


The 35/1.4 ZA on the A9 is a match made from pure special sauce. Just nothing else like it.

Buuuut, the 16-35/4 is no slouchy choice either. The great A9 just makes everything better. Even waffles.

Sony is on a big, buttered roll and that's a fact. I may need to grab the 100-400 now.

-Bill



Jun 03, 2017 at 10:46 PM
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