p.2 #1 · Do you buy a processor or motherboard first?
rico wrote:
To a true geek, the justification for dual E5-26xx is "because it's fun"!
Lol... don't get me started on the Broadwell OC degradation flap and just how lost current x99 manufacturers are trying to come up with firmware (e.g., bios) for them. Then there's the hardware side side of the coin, which seems to indicate a lot of poor quality control and CS more or less across the board; hence my much higher interest in dual 26xx v3s.
p.2 #2 · Do you buy a processor or motherboard first?
jancohen wrote:
Lol... don't get me started on the Broadwell OC degradation flap and just how lost current x99 manufacturers are trying to come up with firmware (e.g., bios) for them. Then there's the hardware side side of the coin, which seems to indicate a lot of poor quality control and CS more or less across the board; hence my much higher interest in dual 26xx v3s.
The V3's are very expensive for what they are. At least in comparison to the used V1's - 25-30% more performance for 10x the cost. That ratio obviously drops when considering the full system, but it's still pretty high.
When going to dual Xeons you will need to pay attention to system specs carefully. In my research of the last couple of days (i bought a pair of E5-2670's on ebay for £135) i have noticed the following:
1. Most dual Xeon boards are SSI-EEB form factor. This will fit in a E-ATX case, but with 3 or 4 of the mounting screws not used. You can get out your drill and taps to remedy this if you feel keen though. Very few ATX format boards are available.
2. Dual Xeon boards are "server" class, and thus have very different functionality to desktop i5/i7 boards. There is likely no sound card, and you may even be surprised to find an old style PCI slot. On some supermicros you will find no PCIe x16 slots for your graphics card. Check the USB connectivity carefully, especially internal headers that you want to connect to the front ports on your case. And don't expect sophisticated fan control - these things are intended for data centres, not quiet studio apartments...
3. Supermicro boards are an area of myth and mystery all to themselves. Their reputation is high, but they tend to want to sell you their own cases and PSU's. Their adherence to the EEB/ATX standards then might not be perfect for some boards. They also tend to use narrow ILM CPU sockets, which massively narrows your CPU cooler choices (supermicro have a good range though ). They don't really mention this on their spec sheets.
4. Asus boards seem to be cheapest, but their bios's can be suspect (not exactly unknown in their desktop boards either). The workstation "WS" boards look good on paper, and are good value for money, but they tend to incorporate non-intel controllers for things like extra SATA ports / sound / USB etc. Their chosen Marvell SATA controllers at least, are rubbish. In linux (relevant to me) the Marvell chips are best avoided.
5. RAM needs to be fitted in multiples of 8 if you want to get the full bandwidth. And if you want more than 64GB, registered ECC is needed.
6. You will need a PSU with 2 CPU power cables.
p.2 #3 · Do you buy a processor or motherboard first?
Thanks for sharing your experiences with your build; I had thought about older v2s as well, and the vote's still out on ruling them out, especially given what the 2nd hand market is asking for the v3s (or at least the v3s I might be interested in). I did already come across much of what you shared, and am keeping it in mind.
I'm not after a server per se, just something rock stable that I'll be able to process 4k video with, using Premiere and After Effects, something that will last for a number of years and also be usable for general use. I'll be running sli'd 1080s alone in it at first (already have a pair with water blocks), and depending on how that works out, may eventually add or move to the new upcoming PASCAL Quadros.
As for a motherboard and suitable case, eeb doesn't scare me off because if I need to, I'd be willing to make mods to make one fit. I've also been reviewing the motherboards that are available, and share similar thoughts about what's coming out of the Far East for the most part (as well as what seems to be an obvious downward trend in quality-after-sales-support). Supermicro does seem to be one of the better options. Their tech may be a little older with their focus on servers, but from what I can tell, they make fairly solid products and provide good customer service.
ECC RDIMMS are also on my list, as is enough power to keep everything happy under load (1200-1500w).
15Bit wrote:
The V3's are very expensive for what they are. At least in comparison to the used V1's - 25-30% more performance for 10x the cost. That ratio obviously drops when considering the full system, but it's still pretty high.
When going to dual Xeons you will need to pay attention to system specs carefully. In my research of the last couple of days (i bought a pair of E5-2670's on ebay for £135) i have noticed the following:
1. Most dual Xeon boards are SSI-EEB form factor. This will fit in a E-ATX case, but with 3 or 4 of the mounting screws not used. You can get out your drill and taps to remedy this if you feel keen though. Very few ATX format boards are available.
2. Dual Xeon boards are "server" class, and thus have very different functionality to desktop i5/i7 boards. There is likely no sound card, and you may even be surprised to find an old style PCI slot. On some supermicros you will find no PCIe x16 slots for your graphics card. Check the USB connectivity carefully, especially internal headers that you want to connect to the front ports on your case. And don't expect sophisticated fan control - these things are intended for data centres, not quiet studio apartments...
3. Supermicro boards are an area of myth and mystery all to themselves. Their reputation is high, but they tend to want to sell you their own cases and PSU's. Their adherence to the EEB/ATX standards then might not be perfect for some boards. They also tend to use narrow ILM CPU sockets, which massively narrows your CPU cooler choices (supermicro have a good range though ). They don't really mention this on their spec sheets.
4. Asus boards seem to be cheapest, but their bios's can be suspect (not exactly unknown in their desktop boards either). The workstation "WS" boards look good on paper, and are good value for money, but they tend to incorporate non-intel controllers for things like extra SATA ports / sound / USB etc. Their chosen Marvell SATA controllers at least, are rubbish. In linux (relevant to me) the Marvell chips are best avoided.
5. RAM needs to be fitted in multiples of 8 if you want to get the full bandwidth. And if you want more than 64GB, registered ECC is needed.
6. You will need a PSU with 2 CPU power cables. ...Show more →
p.2 #4 · Do you buy a processor or motherboard first?
I used to buy CPU & Motherboard combo at Microcenter.com, no where to find cheapest price like them on CPU and MB combo.
Everything else I bought from Newegg.com with lowest price compare to other store.
p.2 #5 · Do you buy a processor or motherboard first?
jancohen wrote:
I'm not after a server per se, just something rock stable that I'll be able to process 4k video with, using Premiere and After Effects, something that will last for a number of years and also be usable for general use. I'll be running sli'd 1080s alone in it at first (already have a pair with water blocks), and depending on how that works out, may eventually add or move to the new upcoming PASCAL Quadros.
For Premiere (and LR/Photoshop), you would probably get better performance with an overclocked 6 core i7.
As for a motherboard and suitable case, eeb doesn't scare me off because if I need to, I'd be willing to make mods to make one fit. I've also been reviewing the motherboards that are available, and share similar thoughts about what's coming out of the Far East for the most part (as well as what seems to be an obvious downward trend in quality-after-sales-support). Supermicro does seem to be one of the better options. Their tech may be a little older with their focus on servers, but from what I can tell, they make fairly solid products and provide good customer service. ...Show more →
I'd also like a Supermicro, but up here in the back end of nowhere our choices are more limited. And the CPU cooler options are a problem cos i want a quiet machine and the narrow ILM coolers are generally not quiet (even if i could find somewhere that sells them). I suspect i will end up with an Asus server board. I won't be buying one of the WS boards though, due to the enthusiast "polish" they like to put on them. Fancy Bios's with clever overclocking options are for my Desktop, not my server...
ECC RDIMMS are also on my list, as is enough power to keep everything happy under load (1200-1500w).
Thats a lot of power. Guess you need it with dual GFX though. I'll probably be going with a Seasonic Platinum 660W as there is no GPU speedup for the kind of number crunching i will do. And even that will be enough for a single GPU if i find i do need one.
p.2 #6 · Do you buy a processor or motherboard first?
My choice of server mainboard has been Tyan for the last 15 years, starting with dual Coppermines and 4GB ECC 133MHz SDRAM. Asus server offerings are pretty thin these days, while Tyan has a few base designs that are then greatly enriched with variations. The variations include onboard controllers (storage/sound/network/video), DIMM configs, PCIe/PCI slots, etc. My servers of Sandy Bridge Xeon vintage use the S7050, or full name S7050WGM4NR. This flavor is heavy on storage (SATA+SAS) and networking (4x Intel gigabit ethernet. Sound and video is lowly, but present. The BIOS offers high/low fan speeds, and the low speed can be used in any home environment (impressively quiet). I have never been able to trigger high speed—good because the three 120mm fans are otherwise deafening.
p.2 #7 · Do you buy a processor or motherboard first?
I had a Tyan dual pentium (yes, the original) motherboard back in the day. Sadly they are difficult to source over here. Supermicro is probably possible with some work and patience, I can't find any ASRock server boards here, no Tyan. Basically, it's Gigabyte or Asus, and there are no old Socket-2011 Gigabyte boards i can find.
For Premiere (and LR/Photoshop), you would probably get better performance with an overclocked 6 core i7.
Yes, I did read through a number of Puget's articles, including that one. Very informative. For the time being, I'll work in the 2014 version of AE to overcome the problem the 2015 version has with dual CPUs; and hopefully, Adobe will sort that out in the 2016 version as Puget says.
I'd also like a Supermicro, but up here in the back end of nowhere our choices are more limited. And the CPU cooler options are a problem cos i want a quiet machine and the narrow ILM coolers are generally not quiet (even if i could find somewhere that sells them). I suspect i will end up with an Asus server board. I won't be buying one of the WS boards though, due to the enthusiast "polish" they like to put on them. Fancy Bios's with clever overclocking options are for my Desktop, not my server...
I'm not into blinking lights myself, and since I'm looking for stability, little to no overclocking. Though I think the setup I'm planning will be relatively stable, it will still be throwing off a lot of heat. I do have air conditioning in my office though, and will use it during the warmer days of the year if things start to cook too much (including me).
As for Tyan, I'll probably have another look at their offerings before finalizing the decision about the motherboard.
Thats a lot of power. Guess you need it with dual GFX though. I'll probably be going with a Seasonic Platinum 660W as there is no GPU speedup for the kind of number crunching i will do. And even that will be enough for a single GPU if i find i do need one.
Seasonic makes great power supplies. I'll probably be going with an eVGA myself. I looked at what Corsair offers and though they'd probably work fine, I did note a number of reviews here and there that make me lean toward eVGA.
). They don't really mention this on their spec sheets.