p.5 #1 · DXOMark: Sony FE 24-70/2.8 GM - Best zoom in the range
billsnature wrote:
Hi Fred,
I will keep trying just a question of trying what? Since I still have a Canon 5DSR, should I be trying multiple copies of the Canon 24-70 II or keep playing the Sony lotto? From what you have seen so far... For Landscape purposes is the Canon equal or better than GM? Guy has convinced me GM may be better for events, but I don't shoot events so I am strictly looking for landscape quality and versatility.
Thought on which lottery is best for me?
Aside from your bad experience, I think there is better QC with the GM lens. I tried two and they were perfect.
For landscapes, the Canon is a great deal. It has mechanical MF and is better at 70mm.
Even for events, AF is instant and accurate with the Sigma MC-11. It could be even better with the Metabones but I have not tried it. The Sigma MC-11 has the same texture as the lens so it looks like one piece when attached.
Used 'like-new' Canon zooms are going for $1,275-1,350 at the buy and sell board.
From f/5.6, the Canon is sharp edge to edge. (f/4 not far behind)
With my copy, the GM wins at 50mm though but I'll test this FL again.
There is more vignetting and CA with the Canon but that's easily fixed. It's suspicious there's minimal CA with the GM, which leads me to believe this correction is done in camera.
IMO, the GM renders better and colors are nicer. The focus transition zone is smoother and the bokeh ball is cleaner. However, the Canon is not far behind, with great contrast even wide open.
p.5 #2 · DXOMark: Sony FE 24-70/2.8 GM - Best zoom in the range
Thanks Fred for running the test. I'm staying pat with the GM. I'm really hoping yours comes back as the day you bought your GM. You have a really nice copy as it pretty much mine as well and I know I got a good one. The Canon maybe the cheaper solution used and maybe good for folks shooting both systems it feel a little short on money. The GM is not exactly cheap
p.5 #3 · DXOMark: Sony FE 24-70/2.8 GM - Best zoom in the range
I sold a Canon 24-70II few weeks ago after I got the Sony GM. I just bought a Canon 24-70II from THE Fred to save some $ so I am either returning the GM to Adorama or selling it here for $2198, including the $200 gift card from Adorama. Yes, I got that deal, on impulse.
p.5 #5 · DXOMark: Sony FE 24-70/2.8 GM - Best zoom in the range
GMPhotography wrote:
I would have thought being blown out it would be softer on the edges. Interesting
IMO, that's the difference between 35mm and medium format. It's the tonality in the highlights. Medium format gives that smoother fall-off similar to film rendering. With the A7RII, that tonal transition is sometimes abrupt and that's something I want to compare with the new Hassy.
p.5 #6 · DXOMark: Sony FE 24-70/2.8 GM - Best zoom in the range
Fred Miranda wrote:
IMO, that's the difference between 35mm and medium format. It's the tonality in the highlights. Medium format gives that smoother fall-off similar to film rendering. With the A7RII, that tonal transition is sometimes abrupt and that's something I want to compare with the new Hassy.
Wait. You are getting the new mirrorless Hassy? Good for you. I hope they come out with some wide angle lenses soon.
Chris
p.5 #7 · DXOMark: Sony FE 24-70/2.8 GM - Best zoom in the range
This is how the Canon 24-70L looks attached to the Sigma MC-11 adapter. (sorry iPhone capture)
I highly recommend the Sigma MC-11 adapter, especially for those shooting landscapes. I have seeing many misaligned Metabones adapters and when shooting at 24mm, the edges will suffer. Sigma's QC is superb.
BTW: I retested 50mm on the Canon, and it's not weaker. It was a slight misfocus from yesterday's tests.
50mm looks just as good as 35mm and 70mm at f/5.6. If someone can get this lens for $1,300 used, it's a steal!
p.5 #8 · DXOMark: Sony FE 24-70/2.8 GM - Best zoom in the range
Fred Miranda wrote:
IMO, that's the difference between 35mm and medium format. It's the tonality in the highlights. Medium format gives that smoother fall-off similar to film rendering. With the A7RII, that tonal transition is sometimes abrupt and that's something I want to compare with the new Hassy.
Too many still shooters peg their exposure too far right. Treating digital like transparency gets you a lot more meat in the highlights, Medium Format off course is usually 16bit, and that helps enormously. Pro videographers running 4:2:0 video kit are masters at pegging natural looking highlights.
Your highlights that Guy mentioned look like those where the highlight recovery slider has been overused, I often see that in my own files too. ~Chris
p.5 #9 · DXOMark: Sony FE 24-70/2.8 GM - Best zoom in the range
chrisgibbs wrote:
Too many still shooters peg their exposure too far right. Treating digital like transparency gets you a lot more meat in the highlights, Medium Format off course is usually 16bit, and that helps enormously. Pro videographers running 4:2:0 video kit are masters at pegging natural looking highlights.
Your highlights that Guy mentioned look like those where the highlight recovery slider has been overused, I often see that in my own files too. ~Chris
Great comment Chris.
It happens with high contrast scenes and unless we severely underexpose the image, there is not much latitude in the highlights with very abrupt transitions. This also happens with the Pentax 645Z I tested but I heard that Hasselblad treats the files differently even using the same sensor.
For the A7RII, the solution for very high contrast scenes is to underexpose whenever bracketing is not a possibility.
For that image in question I was not really paying attention to the exposure. I was just testing EyeAF with the MC-11 adapter. My point was, I didn't think the lens was at fault there.
p.5 #10 · DXOMark: Sony FE 24-70/2.8 GM - Best zoom in the range
Fred Miranda wrote:
Great comment Chris.
It happens with high contrast scenes and unless we severely underexpose the image, there is not much latitude in the highlights with very abrupt transitions. This also happens with the Pentax 645Z I tested but I heard that Hasselblad treats the files differently even using the same sensor.
For the A7RII, the solution for very high contrast scenes is to underexpose whenever bracketing is not a possibility.
For that image in question I was not really paying attention to the exposure. I was just testing EyeAF with the MC-11 adapter. My point was, I didn't think the lens is at fault there....Show more →
A good "fudge/workaround" is to add a little density to those areas before PP, I like Alien Skin's Exposure App for that, it has a "Film Grain" option that allows you to add grain to only the highlight areas, this often adds just enough density to ward off that "digital blown highlights" look.
Its always a crapshoot working fast on lifestyle shoots, windows are a PITA, zebras are king here, as is the exposure comp dial.
EDIT: That's why I like Zebras (100+ for me), they're right in your face as you look at the EVF image, and hard to miss.
p.5 #11 · DXOMark: Sony FE 24-70/2.8 GM - Best zoom in the range
kdrk888 wrote:
Bill, did you just get a Contax 24-85? I received the GM 24-70 few weeks ago but haven't done any test yet. It's definitely bigger than I thought. I am like you, I don't shoot event/people all the much. May sell it for something else.
Yes I did! I still have fond memories of my old Conurus converted 24-85 N, and while I love the color and Contrax 35-70, I love the idea of 24-34 and 71-85mm being added to it.
I will buck it up for the forum and run the 35-70 vs 24-85 vs either a Canon or Sony 24-70 once I get a centered copy of something.
Then look for a big sell off from me on Buy/Sell forum. You need to work hard to get to over 150 feedbacks and I am working hard at it again
p.5 #12 · DXOMark: Sony FE 24-70/2.8 GM - Best zoom in the range
billsnature wrote:
Yes I did! I still have fond memories of my old Conurus converted 24-85 N, and while I love the color and Contrax 35-70, I love the idea of 24-34 and 71-85mm being added to it.
I will buck it up for the forum and run the 35-70 vs 24-85 vs either a Canon or Sony 24-70 once I get a centered copy of something.
Then look for a big sell off from me on Buy/Sell forum. You need to work hard to get to over 150 feedbacks and I am working hard at it again
Bill, I am working hard towards 150 feedback.. I sold a Canon 24-70II few weeks ago and bought one back today, also sold a Nikon EN-EL15 Battery few weeks ago, and bought one back two days ago. The FM B&S board is the best thing since sliced bread.
p.5 #13 · DXOMark: Sony FE 24-70/2.8 GM - Best zoom in the range
chrisgibbs wrote:
A good "fudge/workaround" is to add a little density to those areas before PP, I like Alien Skin's Exposure App for that, it has a "Film Grain" option that allows you to add grain to only the highlight areas, this often adds just enough density to ward off that "digital blown highlights" look.
Its always a crapshoot working fast on lifestyle shoots, windows are a PITA, zebras are king here, as is the exposure comp dial.
EDIT: That's why I like Zebras (100+ for me), they're right in your face as you look at the EVF image, and hard to miss.
I just tried Alien Skin's Exposure using the "add detail to blown highlights" preset. It works great and the highlight area looks more organic film-like. Thanks for the tip.
p.5 #14 · DXOMark: Sony FE 24-70/2.8 GM - Best zoom in the range
I'm usually looking to the skin (like your daughters arm in the color shot), its so hard to gauge skin-tones properly, especially those highlights we see on foreheads and nose bridges, its so easy to blow those as they often don't even show-up on a histogram. I'll go with the slightest hint of zebras @ 100+, and often off a magnified view for skin-tones. I can usually get away with this on my video footage too.
I like the tools filmmakers have access to in Vectorscopes and Waveforms, ours are woefully outdated in a digital age. ~Chris
p.5 #15 · DXOMark: Sony FE 24-70/2.8 GM - Best zoom in the range
chrisgibbs wrote:
I like the tools filmmakers have access to in Vectorscopes and Waveforms, ours are woefully outdated in a digital age. ~Chris
For video they are indispensable as there is less room for mistakes but at least we have zebras for stills. I don't know many photographers that use it though.
p.5 #16 · DXOMark: Sony FE 24-70/2.8 GM - Best zoom in the range
All these video-centric tools are very interesting, we still shooters need to catch-up I recon, the EVF is a godsend for pre-visualization, as are magnified focus, zebras and peaking for accuracy and reassurance. ~Chris
EDIT: its taken me a couple of years working exclusively with EVF's to accept the differences, lower viewing resolution, slower to use, and the associated quirkiness. But after all's said and done, I wouldn't go back to an OVF given the choice, its just so much more accurate to assess exposure given these tools and infinitely better for all things focus related.
p.5 #17 · DXOMark: Sony FE 24-70/2.8 GM - Best zoom in the range
I don't use the Zebra tools. To me the flashing is like my wife is screaming at me or something. Lol
Irritating as hell Fred Miranda wrote:
For video they are indispensable as there is less room for mistakes but at least we have zebras for stills. I don't know many photographers that use it though.
My point was, I didn't think the lens was at fault there.