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Archive 2016 · legendary 85 shoot out! part 2

  
 
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · legendary 85 shoot out! part 2


After completing this first shoot out ( https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1402791 ) to find which 85s I liked best, I found the N85 and Mino 85 Limited were my favorite, with a nod the Leica R 80. Since then, I got my hands on the Milvus 85, Samyang 85, CY 100, GM 85 and Batis 85. I also threw in my old Minolta 58 1.2 I often use for portraits. I really donít think Iíll do another shoot out like this, but I thought the FM community might enjoy the results. As always, please feel free to chime in, post examples, disagree (but not too harshly!) or educate on some of the specifics. I am interested in 85s as portraits lenses, so performance stopped down and at longer distances isnít something I took the time to test here. I am principally interested in renderingócolor, contrast, focus transition, fringing, clarity and highlight and shadow detail. This isnít a traditional tests, and it wasnít intended to be but maybe the more astute members here can better answer some more technical aspects. Exposure and white balance have all been equalized. Processing is minimalólens profiles have been turned off, and there have been minimal contrast, color or exposure adjustments. These adjustments has been equally applied. If it wasnít relevant, I didnít post process (like WB the vingetting). All photos were taken on the A7rII except for the sharpness tests and color tests, these were performed on the a7II.

Itís curious how these tests translate into real word shooting--I find the tests are interesting and informative, but I donít feel they closely correlate to real world images, which is whyI have somewhat lost interests in testing after this round. And itís a fine lineóthe renderings are quite different, but when in the field, so much of the lensí print is from the lighting, how much/well it takes processing, composition, etc. The Rokkor 58 1.2 doesnít test well for instance, but I love my images from the Mino 58. The Batis is the opposite. The N 85 is the technically least optically competent Zeiss tested here, but itís easily my favorite. But these tests do give indications on what to expect. Beyond the technical aspects, this stuff is subjective. And also, modern optics are better corrected in terms of color fringing and off central sharpness, and we are getting to a new generation and style or photos. All the lenses have their personalities, and I love these lenses for different reasons. Iíve done a little write up on each lens, and at the end, Iíll include a couple photos that I feel illustrate the lensí personality in the field. I realize the information here is qualitative and quantitative, so thereís room for dialogue

As always, thanks to the FM community for being an invaluable source of inspiration and information.







Edited on May 19, 2016 at 10:17 PM · View previous versions



May 19, 2016 at 09:36 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · legendary 85 shoot out! part 2


Bokeh transition and look for bokeh fringing. All WO, except Rokkor 58 1.2 @ f2.

Batis 85


CY 100 f2


GM 85


Milvus 85


Minolta Limited 85


Contax N 85


Rokkor 58 1.2 @ f2


Samyang 85





May 19, 2016 at 09:38 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · legendary 85 shoot out! part 2


Color fringing

Uncropped photo


85 GM


Batis 85


CY 100 f2


Milvus 85


Minolta Limited 85


Contax N 85


Rokkor 58 1.2 @f2


Samyang 85



May 19, 2016 at 09:48 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · legendary 85 shoot out! part 2


Color response

GM 85


Batis 85


CY 100 f2


Milvus 85


Minolta 85 Limited


Contax N 85


Rokkor 58 1.2 @f2


Samyang 85



May 19, 2016 at 09:52 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · legendary 85 shoot out! part 2


Central Sharpness

Uncropped photo


GM 85


Batis 85


CY 100 f2


Milvus 85


Minolta 85 Limited


Contax N 85


Rokkor 58 1.2 @ f2


Samyang







May 19, 2016 at 09:55 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · legendary 85 shoot out! part 2


bokeh with subject. Dog is about 15/20 feet away, tables are 8 or so feet behind dog.

I realize I front focused the CY 100 shot, but only after I got home It's does very well though for bokeh

Batis 85


CY 100 f2


Milvus 85


Minolta 85 Limited


Contax N 85


Rokkor 58 1.2 @f2


Samyang 85


GM 85


Edited on May 22, 2016 at 03:51 PM · View previous versions



May 19, 2016 at 10:04 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · legendary 85 shoot out! part 2


Clarity

Uncropped photo:


Batis 85


CY 100 f2


GM 85


Milvus 85


Minolta 85 Limited


Contax N 85


Rokkor 58 1.2 @f2


Samyang 85




May 19, 2016 at 10:11 PM
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · legendary 85 shoot out! part 2


Getting sleepy, so I'll finish up tomorrow. I'll post off central sharpness and vignetting. I'll also post a little real word blurb about each lens and some photos I feel illustrate the character of the lens in the field.


May 19, 2016 at 10:14 PM
tunisia
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · legendary 85 shoot out! part 2


Thanks for the work and effort. I'll be looking forward for the rest.


May 19, 2016 at 10:35 PM
sebbe
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · legendary 85 shoot out! part 2


I'm impressed about the lineup!

I do only have the CY85 and 85GM. When there is not much contrast edges the CY85 gives a very special look. The 85GM is for anything else.

Thank you for your work.
Seb



May 20, 2016 at 01:14 AM
philip_pj
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · legendary 85 shoot out! part 2


How fascinating, and thank you so much, so much for these very illuminating sets. You can see and almost feel the designers working for a particular style here. Some are chasing the arty look (it appears to me) entirely to be expected in portrait lenses and not a criticism, as all have strong points. It's a good balance of challenges too, you are good at this.

For different reasons I find myself liking the Milvus, the 100/2 CY (how good was this one when released, wow); the fringing disturbs me on the Min, the Sam and the N to an extent, and dreamy fur does not work with dogs for me. The Sam does better with the dog-on-grass shot. Speaking of dogs, the Batis bites like one, very competent and gives it to you straight, my vote for all rounder by a good margin. Look at the book and jigsaw corners, but it has excellent WO performance, just 2/3 stop down.

No women here so that would likely change - there are some heavy hitters here for that critical task.

The GM loses out IMO to the other clean-competent-fast newcomer, the Milvus, both are really fine but Zeiss is in front with a quasi medium format drawing style, but both are a bit sterile. You judge the judge by his judgments, and I am unashamedly a Zeiss person, however just as much a Carl Zeiss person.

I can see why you (and others here) really like the 58/1.2, special lens that one. cheers.



May 20, 2016 at 02:12 AM
timballic
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · legendary 85 shoot out! part 2


Interesting, and very thorough. Well done and thanks.
Unlike Philip, the Batis is the one I'd discount because of its busier bokeh. Yes, it wins at being sharp and clear, but to my eyes/brain, disturbing in out of focus areas.
I'm drawn to the CY and Milvus, the Milvus being the better of the two for sharpness, probably my choice for the "best" all rounder.

Edited on May 21, 2016 at 02:48 AM · View previous versions



May 20, 2016 at 05:35 AM
rsrsrs
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · legendary 85 shoot out! part 2


Great shoot out, very helpful.
for me the Batis wins as all-round lens,
what a pity that the C/Y 85mm 2,8 isnt i your comparison.

did you train your dog for Lens shoot out?



May 20, 2016 at 09:57 AM
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · legendary 85 shoot out! part 2


The bokeh fence is interesting--The 85 limited still has the smoothest bokeh.

But this test just seems to reinforce the concept of compromises.

To me, the Batis is probably the best all around 85 but the worst strait portrait lens as it is so well corrected but has too much bite and comes off as flat.

I noticed many times when shooting the shadow detail on the N 85 is just superb--and if you look at the color, it's a much slower rush to black. But, it has lower clarity than the other Zeiss lenses, and more color fringing.

The Samyang does better with bokeh and fringing, but it's also low clarity contrast and color.

To me there's always an up and down side. There's also a high amount of preference here. I don't prefer the super well corrected route like the Milvus (though I do think the rendering it lovely), I tend to lean towards the Mino Limted/N85/Leica R 80. To me, those are putting a premium on aesthetics and rendering. I just wish they didn't fringe to so much



May 20, 2016 at 10:36 AM
nehemiahphoto
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · legendary 85 shoot out! part 2


rsrsrs wrote:
Great shoot out, very helpful.
for me the Batis wins as all-round lens,
what a pity that the C/Y 85mm 2,8 isnt i your comparison.

did you train your dog for Lens shoot out?


Hahaha--no, he's actually a cat that was born into the wrong body. Comically low energy dog--part Pyrenees. He just likes to watch the world and stick by me.



May 20, 2016 at 10:39 AM
TheEmrys
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · legendary 85 shoot out! part 2


I think my favorites so far are the CY100/2, Minolta Limited, and the Contax N, all for different reasons. Can't wait to see the rest!


May 20, 2016 at 11:20 AM
TheEmrys
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · legendary 85 shoot out! part 2


I think my favorites so far are the CY100/2, Minolta Limited, and the Contax N, all for different reasons. Can't wait to see the rest!


May 20, 2016 at 11:20 AM
FlyPenFly
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · legendary 85 shoot out! part 2


Nice book collection!

Personally, I love the Samyang 85. So much value. Just wish it had the build quality of the newer lenses they make and a nicer hood.

I would get the Sammy 85 and spend the rest on a workshop or trip to use it.



May 20, 2016 at 11:42 AM
lbloom
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · legendary 85 shoot out! part 2


Thank you for doing this.


May 20, 2016 at 12:33 PM
wayne seltzer
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · legendary 85 shoot out! part 2


Nice lineup Nehemiah!
Thanks for doing all this work and sharing.
I have 100/2 planar, N85, Samy 85, and Rokkor 58.
I love all for different reasons. The 100P really has nice 3-d and makes person pop from background and has nicer bokeh rendering than the 100MP.
I also like my Biotar 75/1.5 and ZA 135/1.8 for portraits too.
Both have unique rendering and bokeh style. The ZA135 would render that chain link fence smooth as butter but with some LoCA kind of like the N85. The Biotar has the dreamy bokeh when far enough from the focus plane but has the interesting swirly bokeh near the plane of focus and it renders nicely out of focus lights.I think the N85 and ZA 135 make an incredible portrait pairing. Otus 55 is not to shabby for portraits too.



May 21, 2016 at 10:10 AM
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