chrisgibbs wrote:
Seventh from the bottom, the OOF tree with blue flowers, love that Petzval looking swirl, I could use that effect (I know Fred doesn't care for it though). Thanks for posting these! ~Chris
It's funny, until now, i've been looking for Batis shots that would annoy me (the way that some sonnar bokeh can be distracting) and "disqualify" it for me - but now i'm starting to see a lot of these Batis shots that have some character that is actually appealing - again it's up for everyone to decide if it's preferable, but the surprise so far for me is that, overall, i would score the Batis bokeh as "mostly neutral to slightly positive and only sometimes a negative".
btw - that's the exact shot that started me thinking in those terms.
ecarlino wrote:
It's funny, until now, i've been looking for Batis shots that would annoy me (the way that some sonnar bokeh can be distracting) and "disqualify" it for me - but now i'm starting to see a lot of these Batis shots that have some character that is actually appealing - again it's up for everyone to decide if it's preferable, but the surprise so far for me is that, overall, i would score the Batis bokeh as "mostly neutral to slightly positive and only sometimes a negative".
btw - that's the exact shot that started me thinking in those terms.
For the way the current social portrait photographers shoot I'm not sure which lens has the better 'look' if you look at this work https://500px.com/lisaholloway I could see that Batis/Petzval swirl really working.
Any chance you could post those two half lengths of your daughter that show the swirl on the Batis? Cropped the same would be very helpful, thanks again, this is positive and helpful. ~Chris
Very interesting. My take:
GM a little 'cleaner' stopped down a bit than the Batis wide open, but not much in it. Be interesting to see them both at f2 if anyone is keen...
As for bokeh, you can see mild swirl in the Batis from time to time (but we Batis owners know that well enough!)
What it would be great to do if Ecarlino or someone else with them both had the time, would be a similar set with exactly the same backgrounds. I kept not being sure how the other lens would have dealt with a particular background - for instance the Batis is just slightly distracting in how it renders the bluebells in the BG occasionally. But I have no idea if the GM would do the same. Also many of the GM backgrounds were a little brighter, and that gives a different effect.
Oh dear, though, I do want a GM. But I'm not giving up my Batis, and I'm not sure I can afford both (not with the Voigt 10 coming, and saving for whoever comes up with a nice AF 135 f2 first, and possibly cracking and getting the GM 24-70)
Very interesting. My take:
GM a little 'cleaner' stopped down a bit than the Batis wide open, but not much in it. Be interesting to see them both at f2 if anyone is keen...
all of my shots from yesterday were both lenses at f/2
(see prior pages of this thread, after and before various lengthy discussions on the "noise" that is of concern)
Very interesting. My take:
GM a little 'cleaner' stopped down a bit than the Batis wide open, but not much in it. Be interesting to see them both at f2 if anyone is keen...
As for bokeh, you can see mild swirl in the Batis from time to time (but we Batis owners know that well enough!)
What it would be great to do if Ecarlino or someone else with them both had the time, would be a similar set with exactly the same backgrounds. I kept not being sure how the other lens would have dealt with a particular background - for instance the Batis is just slightly distracting in how it renders the bluebells in the BG occasionally. But I have no idea if the GM would do the same. Also many of the GM backgrounds were a little brighter, and that gives a different effect.
Oh dear, though, I do want a GM. But I'm not giving up my Batis, and I'm not sure I can afford both (not with the Voigt 10 coming, and saving for whoever comes up with a nice AF 135 f2 first, and possibly cracking and getting the GM 24-70)...Show more →
The 85GM looks like a very steady predicable performer whereas the Batis has that quirky swirly funky vibe going on. My FE 1.8/55 has the Batis look without the Batis vibe (read: kinda boring).
philber wrote:
A couple of real-life shots, from Montmartre's Place du Tertre. Both wide open.
Thanks Philippe. Excellent shots. The second shot is the "look" that I am after
Thank you Eric for your series too It has further confirmed my feelings that the Batis 85 has a less pastel and softer bokeh. Also the advantage with GM when you need is you have f/1.4 and allows for a spectrum of looks.
The downside is the slower AF, size and weight. This may be enough for many to keep the Batis 85.
joychris wrote:
Must have been made by the same crew that produced the a6300's that never overheat. The days of preordering anything based on Sony junket reports are over for me, too many letdowns. I can wait a couple weeks for first run problems to be fleshed out.
Same. This is really getting tiresome. How does the saying go, the ones who can, DO, the ones who can't, TEACH. Today this can be translated to: the ones who can, DO, the ones who can't REVIEW
chrisgibbs wrote:
A more realistic test of AF noise.
i'm not sure i agree that the video represents a 'more realistic test' but if that is the case (i.e. we are accepting his recording levels as 'normal'), then i would suggest whoever recorded that video see his doctor first thing tomorrow morning because i've never heard breathing recorded that loudly and the videographer may have Emphysema (or worse).
ecarlino wrote:
i'm not sure i agree that the video represents a 'more realistic test' but if that is the case (i.e. that it is 'realistic in terms of how loud it is'), then i would suggest whoever recorded that video see his doctor first thing tomorrow morning because i've never heard breathing recorded that loudly and the videographer may have Emphysema (or worse).
BS. I can hear it that loud when I shoot video and my lungs are just fine. Thank you.
k-h.a.w wrote:
BS. I can hear it that loud when I shoot video and my lungs are just fine. Thank you.
does your breathing show up on the audio track the way it does on that video? (is that your video and hence your defensive posture?)
just did a little test myself (i rarely use the video recording feature) and even though when the room is quiet, i can hear the AF motor working, when i recorded the video, i did not hear the motor - and guess what genius - i didn't hear myself breathing either!
mike kobal wrote:
Same. This is really getting tiresome. How does the saying go, the ones who can, DO, the ones who can't, TEACH. Today this can be translated to: the ones who can, DO, the ones who can't REVIEW
Been saying that all along but I try not to get into that stuff but in truth most of them have no clue and why I don't do reviews anymore, I don't want to be associated with that crowd. I do what I do for forum members here and GetDPI and stay out of the limelight. Also just staying on the two forums I get to meet nice people and I am respected as a good member and source. All I care about.
Back to rendering. Not sure who mentioned it but I believe also that the GM is more consistent background look. The Batis 85 would get weird at times, especially here in Arizona as we don't really have leaves on trees it's a really weird collection of desert flora that does terrible with regards to bokeh. Those shots of my daughter pages back really would have not been so nice background wise with the Batis. I actually held off shooting them until I got the GM. I just know the rendering would be better. Now different parts of the country with its flora would be far different but here it's very harsh in images.
ecarlino wrote:
i'm not sure i agree that the video represents a 'more realistic test' but if that is the case (i.e. we are accepting his recording levels as 'normal'), then i would suggest whoever recorded that video see his doctor first thing tomorrow morning because i've never heard breathing recorded that loudly and the videographer may have Emphysema (or worse).
Ok, think of it like this. You're out shooting PR stills on Willy's tour bus, then all of a sudden he says "I've got a new tune, see what you think" you press the red button and prey you get it without any extraneous noise, and yes, camera handling and breathing noises do come into play. This is as realistic as it gets, no on-camera XLR mic or dual audio.
This is exactly the reason those of us who shoot stills and now entertain the notion of video actually shoot Sony over the other brands!!!
EDIT: Also, we must remember that even though the A7's are video cameras they're not proper video cameras, they're hybrid shooters, that's why you hear breath noises, handling noises and why Mike & myself are so paranoid about an overly noisy lens on the A7's. On a proper video camera, equipped with proper directional mics, most these issues may go away.
GMPhotography wrote:
Back to rendering. Not sure who mentioned it but I believe also that the GM is more consistent background look. The Batis 85 would get weird at times, especially here in Arizona as we don't really have leaves on trees it's a really weird collection of desert flora that does terrible with regards to bokeh. Those shots of my daughter pages back really would have not been so nice background wise with the Batis. I actually held off shooting them until I got the GM. I just know the rendering would be better. Now different parts of the country with its flora would be far different but here it's very harsh in images. ...Show more →
TWAS I. Reason for mentioning it, I see that 'weirdness' time after time on the FE 1.8/55, especially when the light gets a little harsh and you're 'that certain distance' from the OOF areas. You can see it on those two Batis shots above of the girl, tree & bluebells, there's the full-length (#20) where the OOF region looks fugly, then there's the tighter shot (#18) that just looks sublime, that tree & flowers looks beautiful, I'd love to to a B&W conversion off that RAW.
The GM's simply look good across the board to my eye.
chrisgibbs wrote:
A more realistic test of AF noise.
Thank you Chris The AF-C seems slow as the fastest AF technique I have found so far is using wide and AF-C. The GM 85 appears to be as slow as the 85L II with MB IV v .47. Maybe you need to set up the AF speed and sensitivity separately to FAST and SENSITIVE, as will definitely move the AF along. Also this may just be a firmware issue with the lens too.
It has further confirmed my feelings that the Batis 85 has a less pastel and softer bokeh. Also the advantage with GM when you need is you have f/1.4 and allows for a spectrum of looks.
