p.3 #1 · Casual Loxia 21 / ZE 21 / FE 16-35 / Batis 25 Comparison
tsdevine wrote:
To me the knock I'd put on the zoom is the foreground depth of field. When shooting this focal length, I often have something in the foreground (present samples excluded) and that would require stopping down further than the other lenses.
-Tim
You completely lost me there. Would you care to explain what do you mean? I would expect hyperfocal to be the same at the same focal length and aperture.
p.3 #2 · Casual Loxia 21 / ZE 21 / FE 16-35 / Batis 25 Comparison
Javier Munoz wrote:
You completely lost me there. Would you care to explain what do you mean? I would expect hyperfocal to be the same at the same focal length and aperture.
p.3 #3 · Casual Loxia 21 / ZE 21 / FE 16-35 / Batis 25 Comparison
Maybe this will help. (Not my article, but something I've read in the past.) I don't use hyperfocal technique, but focusing on a subject at the same distance on 3 difference lenses doesn't mean you'll get all the same areas in focus. On wide angles, field curvature can come into play, as well as other DoF related oddities that I'm just not technically savvy enough to explain (or probably comprehend.)
Javier Munoz wrote:
You completely lost me there. Would you care to explain what do you mean? I would expect hyperfocal to be the same at the same focal length and aperture.
p.3 #5 · Casual Loxia 21 / ZE 21 / FE 16-35 / Batis 25 Comparison
I think Tim means apparent DOF instead of real DOF. Field curvature plays a role here and every lens has different characteristics. It helps to test our lenses and know how to proper focus them in order to get best results.
There some comments about lens affecting DR as well but I think it's meant to be less apparent DR as in higher contrast.
Of course DOF is dictated by focal length, aperture and sensor and DR is a sensor only attribute.
p.3 #6 · Casual Loxia 21 / ZE 21 / FE 16-35 / Batis 25 Comparison
tsdevine wrote:
I will try to post f/5.6 comparisons tonight. But the issue of field curvature will become more apparent when I do that. So it might get more interesting.
And remember guys, I just picked up the Loxia and have had very limited time shooting with it. So I'm learning how it behaves on the fly with these comparison.
-Tim
At f/5.6, I predict the Loxia will come on top. (considering focus/exposure is identical among the lenses)
For these types of comparison tests, I personally prefer shooting at infinity where 100% precision is required but won't affect the results too much. However, I do like Tim's tests as it gives great insight on rendering styles and how they perform in real world situations once field curvature, astigmatism and other aberrations come into play.
p.3 #7 · Casual Loxia 21 / ZE 21 / FE 16-35 / Batis 25 Comparison
Fred Miranda wrote:
I think Tim means apparent DOF instead of real DOF. Field curvature plays a role here and every lens has different characteristics. It helps to test our lenses and know how to proper focus them in order to get best results.
There some comments about lens affecting DR as well but I think it's meant to be less apparent DR as in higher contrast.
Of course DOF is dictated by focal length, aperture and sensor and DR is a sensor only attribute.
Yes I said that wrong about the DR. I should have just said a higher contrast lens. The ZE series has higher contrast
Personally am all in on the Loxia lenses , just picked up the 50 again. I just like how these lenses feel
p.3 #8 · Casual Loxia 21 / ZE 21 / FE 16-35 / Batis 25 Comparison
TheEmrys wrote:
I would kind of like to see how the 28mm and 21mm converter would have faired. I am not huge on testing, but I loved the 28/2. The 21 converter shocked me with how good it was.
tsdevine wrote:
No arguments...I'm already sort of embarrassed that I could compare all 4 of these lenses...If I had the FE 28 and WA converter I'd probably be diagnosed with terminal GAS.
GMPhotography wrote:
You should be ashamed of yourself your worse than me.
I LOVE IT
What's wrong with owning a few 21s? While feeling my way through Leica M system I ended up with 4 at one time. Now I'm down to only 3 and regularly use two, depending on the application. BTW, I love 21mm.
Interesting results. My feeling is the Loxia and Batis have fairly similar tonality (in the processed files). Not as much punch as the ZE/ZF. The zoom looks OK but I'm not keen on its peripheral performance. Details are somewhat smeared, perhaps a compromise of it being a zoom. If I was getting into the system, I think I'd go with the Loxia for the performance vs. size ratio. FWIW, I see green edges on both sides of the ZE/ZF image. I haven't been keeping close track of the Loxia 21 and am curious to see the field curvature effects you mentioned.
p.3 #10 · Casual Loxia 21 / ZE 21 / FE 16-35 / Batis 25 Comparison
The 16-35 in my mind is the best of the current FE zooms. It's very rare a zoom like this is its best at 16mm and great through 24. Most zooms the very wide is usually the worst focal length.
I just love the fact we have really good choices now. I'm so much more comfortable with the system now. It was a struggle in the early days of the FE mount
p.3 #11 · Casual Loxia 21 / ZE 21 / FE 16-35 / Batis 25 Comparison
Just out of curiosity, how bad(good) is vignetting with those lenses. I am planning on getting the A7RII and I am looking for something around this focal length (and perhaps wider)
p.3 #12 · Casual Loxia 21 / ZE 21 / FE 16-35 / Batis 25 Comparison
GMPhotography wrote:
The 16-35 in my mind is the best of the current FE zooms. It's very rare a zoom like this is its best at 16mm and great through 24. Most zooms the very wide is usually the worst focal length.
I also agree it's the best zoom so far with the 70-200/4 not too far behind.
On my last trip to Yosemite, I took this picture using the zoom. I was driving with the camera with 16-35/4 lens only. I usually do that when scouting locations. https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1413863
The Loxia 21/2.8 could do a little better at 1:1, but I doubt it would make too much difference even in a big print.
It's great that we have so many native lenses capable of very high performance.
p.3 #13 · Casual Loxia 21 / ZE 21 / FE 16-35 / Batis 25 Comparison
We'll see, I haven't processed them yet. I have two shots I can post. One I focused on the hard stop, like the f/8 and f/11 shots above. The other I opened up to f/2.8 and focused via live view, focusing on the mansion at the same spot I focused the FE 16-35, ZE 21, and Batis 25. For f/8 and f/11 Loxia shots I posted earlier, the hard stop shots I posted gave sharp objects at a distance around the periphery. I didn't notice much of a penalty on the mansion itself. At f/5.6 though, there is quite a gap between the two approaches on the periphery and a noticeable gap on the mansion itself.
It will probably be later tonight until I get to this. While imperfect, I hope people find it useful.
-Tim
Fred Miranda wrote:
At f/5.6, I predict the Loxia will come on top. (considering focus/exposure is identical among the lenses)
For these types of comparison tests, I personally prefer shooting at infinity where 100% precision is required but won't affect the results too much. However, I do like Tim's tests as it gives great insight on rendering styles and how they perform in real world situations once field curvature, astigmatism and other aberrations come into play.
p.3 #14 · Casual Loxia 21 / ZE 21 / FE 16-35 / Batis 25 Comparison
All the examples look good, but the Loxia is the one that pops off the screen and seems the most lifelike. The Batis is probably the sharpest, but also slightly flatter than the others. Lots of hair-splitting going on here.
p.3 #15 · Casual Loxia 21 / ZE 21 / FE 16-35 / Batis 25 Comparison
Agree we may not really notice a difference until we get to 80 MPX sensors which in my mind a new body is coming soon. With the GM lenses Sony tipped there hand.
p.3 #16 · Casual Loxia 21 / ZE 21 / FE 16-35 / Batis 25 Comparison
Something to keep in mind is how incredibly well the little Loxia 21/2.8 performs against the legendary Distagon 21mm f/2.8 ZE/ZF.2 lens.
It's about half the weight when considering adding the metabones adapter (750g vs 390g)
It's also about half the size in length also considering the adapter (5.3" vs 2.8")
Just to think Zeiss would be able to design such small/light lens that can actually compete (if not surpass) one of the best 21mm on the market, it's a clear testament of the success of the e-mount.
p.3 #17 · Casual Loxia 21 / ZE 21 / FE 16-35 / Batis 25 Comparison
So I love my Loxia's and Batis designs and the FE 55. The 16-35mm is very nice and is a good compromise since from 16-20 i'm not sure how much I like these wider focal length but that's just me. Also, I might switch out the 16-35 for CV 15mm. I have the older version II but as everyone knows it doesn't adapt well to the A7 family. The 24-70 f/4 was nice and small and easily to travel with but in the end just didn't do enough for me to keep it.
So the other wild card is the Batis 18. Its typically as wide as I like to go so I might look at that as well but its two early to tell.
Finally if your looking for a nice small backpack I highly recommend the thinkTANK Urban Approach 15. I can put my Loxia 21, 35, 50, Batis 25 and 85, FE 55, FE 16-35 f/4, FE 70-200 f/4 in it as well as the FE 90mm and a gripped A7RII with VG-C2EM. Not to mention 8 batteries and as many flash card you might want plus other accessories. That's quite a bit in my mind.
p.3 #18 · Casual Loxia 21 / ZE 21 / FE 16-35 / Batis 25 Comparison
Here are the f/5.6 shots, same guidance about these as given above...EXCEPT. For the Loxia shots I've posted two. One is focused at the hard stop, similar to what I did for the f/8 and f/11 shots (only for the Loxia) earlier in the thread. The second shot was focused via live view at f/2.8 and then I stopped down to f/5.6 for the shot. The focus point was the face of mansion/windows above the porch roof. Here you'll see the field curvature really come into play between these two shots.
Both my ZE 21 and Batis 25 seem to be decentered, both in the lower right corner. The ZE might be adapter related, but I guess the Batis is going to need to go back to Zeiss.
