p.1 #1 · Do you give clients full resolution images?
I'm doing pet photography here in Iceland and my business is beginning to take off but I'm still wondering if I should give clients full size resolution (I'm using Nikon D800) or if I should shrink to maybe 2400-3000px on long-width. Most of people here use the photographs on social media but some print them but most often just in small sizes like A4 (think that's similar to 8x11 in USA measurements).
What do you do? And if you do not give full-size as a standard do you offer that for higher price?
p.1 #2 · Do you give clients full resolution images?
I give my clients full resolution prints. I also provide some JPEGs at 2400 x 3000 resolution that they can take to Costco or wherever to get cheap 8x10 prints made. These are also post processed though much less than the files I use to produce large prints.
I don't want something that is just OK out in the public eye for others to see. Not good for my image as a pro photographer.
p.1 #3 · Do you give clients full resolution images?
I had this conversation with a friend that shoots events - equine, sports and such. He has gone full resolution on disc for a fixed price. Customer gets all the shots taken at the event of them and they also get a full release. His philosophy is that he can spend time and effort in protecting his work, managing print fulfillment and followup orders or he can assign a value to being at the event and shooting.
He figures that he has reduced his costs while eliminating time spent processing and printing. For him, it came down to what put the most money in his pocket and being willing to let go of that concern about how his work looks if the customer prints it themselves.
One other thing we discussed was that many if not most people consume photos online (Facebook, Instagram, blah, blah, blah) or on their phones and fewer and fewer actually want physical prints. With that his business model seems to be working for him - less time&labor/more money.
p.1 #4 · Do you give clients full resolution images?
I agree with Trey. With the advent of the smartphone (and my girlfriend told the other day apparently there are now little printers you can plug straight into an iPhone. kill me.) people just do not value us anymore. I am not going to do hours of work basically on spec just to end up arguing with people who don't see why an 8x10 is worth more than the $0.90 of paper it takes to make it, and really don't mind if the photos they use have the word "proof" across the middle. I want to get $x up front for my time, give you a CD, and wish you good luck (and I'll gladly recommend some good places like BlueCube to get nice prints made from them, if I'm asked).
Dec 22, 2015 at 08:23 AM
glort Offline • • • • [X]
p.1 #5 · Do you give clients full resolution images?
Trey Neal wrote:
I had this conversation with a friend that shoots events - equine, sports and such. He has gone full resolution on disc for a fixed price.
I have done the exact same thing for sports and Swim school pics going back to 2008.
1-5 pics = XX
6-10 = yy
10+ = zz
Straight off the card onto disk or USB. Sold literally THOUSANDS of images, never had a problem. At all.
Franky I think this fear of letting clients have unedited or full res files and them making a bad print or the image being so shocking it ruins your reputation as a shooter is farcical.
I'm not so lucky that I could have sold as many images as I have in as many different markets and not have any problems if this was a remotely valid concern.
My Images are fine straight out of the camera and I am not going to spend time resizeing them and trying to prevent people using them when I can be just selling the things, making my money and getting on with the next sale.
If this touted problem of unedited, client edited or printed images was 1/100th of the problem it was made out to be, I would have found out the hard way and stopped shooting myself in the foot a long time ago.
I have asked on other discussions who has personally had a problem with this? Not know someone or heard of something, but had a problem yourself. I think so far I have had one example out of about a dozen discussions and 50+ respondents, the example of which which wasn't really the case in point anyway and was easily solved by the shooter.
I don't make the rules for the exceptions so I don't worry about a problem I haven't had. I have the problem tomorrow I still wouldn't be worried till I had it another 5 times at least because it would still be insignificant in the over all amount of sales I have done.
Often when people pick a " package" of images and I have tried to upsell them and know that is all they are going to buy, I give them whatever is there anyway. What the hell am I going to do with the pictures? I have found that I get a lot of goodwill back from this. Sometimes it's people giving you more money and insisting you take it, sometimes they will bring you back coffee and often they just say thank you and walk off with the feeling something brightened their day and a positive attitude to you. I have also got this back when people are on committees or decision makers on things ( not that I had a clue who they were) and you get the nod over anyone else because you did them a good turn and they want to pay it back.
People pay me for the images, trying to limit their size or usage seems petty and pointless to me. So what if they have a 20x30 made from a full res file? they would have one made if they wanted it anyway no matter what file size they had so if they want a big one, the shooter would look a lot better when the print turned out nice because the file had the res rather than if it looked like a jigsaw puzzle because they were working from a file suitable for a postage stamp.
The images are taken, my time is spent, the wear and tear on the camera is done, someone may as well enjoy the product than all that go to waste.
I don't give away the farm every time, I'm not stupid but if they have 12 images and stand there deciding which ones they want, I'll tell them, " I haven't got all day for you to decide which is the best shot of your beautiful photogenic kids, they are all great so I'll just give you the lot and you can decide which one you like best at home instead of trying to make a decision you'll be questioning when you get home."
Other times I'll Drop them all on the USB while they are trying to decide, pull it out and say " You are too slow deciding, I have already made the decision, here they all are, you procrastinate over which 5 you like when you get home."
I give them a big smile, hand them the Drive and ask for the amount for the smaller number of images they asked for. People are stoked.
It's value adding that costs us nothing. Maybe some people will understand the file size thing and be impressed they got good value in a full size file rather than a watered down one perhaps like what they are used to from other shooters. Again, good will created for not only zero effort and expenditure, but time saved as well.
If they want to resize the image or want it retouched, from there on it's up to them. Never had anyone complain and what 8 yo kid doesn't know how to do that anyway?
Seems to me the blown out of proportion fears surrounding things like this are about 1000 times more prevalent on forums than they are in real life.
p.1 #6 · Do you give clients full resolution images?
+1000 to glort and others...
Camera, download, sell, deliver...edit is not in the equation.
There is no reason to shoot full resolution if you aren't going to deliver that.
Personally, I don't shoot full resolution - rather 5-8Mpix for all the sporting events we do.
With that, we fill up over 3+Tb of space every season, but never...ever...had a complaint about the resolution we deliver.
p.1 #7 · Do you give clients full resolution images?
Hammy wrote:
Personally, I don't shoot full resolution - rather 5-8Mpix for all the sporting events we do.
With that, we fill up over 3+Tb of space every season, but never...ever...had a complaint about the resolution we deliver.
Now, I'd never do this, because why throw away the opportunity to crop (or downsample for those times when autofocus misses by a hair [which in sports always seems to be on the one where the baseball is in the frame]), especially with sports where you can't always be on the exact right yardline of a big football field when half of it is blocked off for the teams. But yeah, when we say "full resolution" we mean "printable resolution" because few really need 24mp files.
Dec 27, 2015 at 08:58 PM
glort Offline • • • • [X]
p.1 #8 · Do you give clients full resolution images?
Lee Saxon wrote:
Now, I'd never do this, because why throw away the opportunity to crop (or downsample for those times when autofocus misses by a hair [which in sports always seems to be on the one where the baseball is in the frame]), especially with sports where you can't always be on the exact right yardline of a big football field when half of it is blocked off for the teams. But yeah, when we say "full resolution" we mean "printable resolution" because few really need 24mp files.
You don't understand Hammys business model.
As he said, it's shoot, burn, deliver. Editing is not a possibility. He sells 10's of thousands of pics from every event he covers. Editing is NOT something he has time for and Clients are perfectly happy with what they get.
It may not work for your business model but I think you would find that most if not all clients would not be concerned about the focus out by a hair. They are looking for the expression and peak action and a good shot of their child looking like a champion.
Razor sharp focusing, perfect composition, lighting and all those other technicalities Shooters crap on about and give themselves hernia's over are not things the clients give a second thought to.
You may be surprised to actually talk to your clients and find out what IS important to them and what they are really looking for in their pictures. I'll guarantee their concerns are not what you think they are! :0)
p.1 #9 · Do you give clients full resolution images?
Glort you are completely correct and this is something most photographers don't get in the professional world. You are not selling to other photographers. You are selling to clients. Most clients don't care even a tiny bit about the things photographers obsess over. What does obsessing do? It's a time waster. Stop wasting time and concentrate on what clients want. A client will be happier with an iPhone photo vs a photo of them taken with the top end medium format back if they like the way they look in the iPhone photo better.
p.1 #10 · Do you give clients full resolution images?
cineski wrote:
Glort you are completely correct and this is something most photographers don't get in the professional world. You are not selling to other photographers. You are selling to clients. .
Most giving advice aren't even selling to anyone.
Jan 11, 2016 at 11:24 PM
glort Offline • • • • [X]
p.1 #11 · Do you give clients full resolution images?
markd61 wrote:
Most giving advice aren't even selling to anyone.
A valid point that can be helpful especially when faced with conflicting advise.
It would be amusing if not sad that people ridicule the business model of those that are some of, if not THE most successful in the WORLD at what they do and try to maintain their concept which makes no to tiddlywinks profit is superior.
I love it when people tell me what I'm doing wont work or is flawed when I'm making good money from it and then crap on about some concept that is all about producing wonderful artistic pictures but you know, hasn't got a hope in hell of making the shooter any more than about $2 an hour gross and a net loss.
It seems to be a curse of artists. They go into a business but have neither the first clue nor regard for BUSINESS and then complain and lament the industry when they make no money and reject every idea or bit of advice that would help them put bread on the table.
Photographers will read every thing they can find on how to take a better picture.
They will watch every vid, pay large amounts for seminars, workshops and online classes.
They will read every gear review and know about every piece of equipment out there.
They will argue night and day about the superiority of one piece of equipment over another that the difference can only be detected with scientific instruments.
They will over spend on endless amounts of gear with features they will never need or use and are complete overkill for the use which they put said gear to.
They will spend ridiculous and non viable hours in post production fixing problems a client would never notice and be just as happy with if the shooter never touched it and that the client will reject out of hand and never look at again because the content of the now perfected picture is not what appeals to them.
They put their own ideas and wants completely before the wants, needs or appeal of a photograph to a clients.
BUT...... The one thing 99% of shooters will NEVER do and completely rubbish the idea of is...... Learning a thing about any business related subject.
In the mind of most shooters, all you have to do to be uber successful is take perfect pictures....... according to them.
It makes you wonder why so many say they can't earn a full time living out of photography doesn't it? Well for those of us that have done the unthinkable and tried to educate ourselves in the devils work, Business, it's no wonder at all really.
Luckily, I don't hold myself in particularly high esteem so am more than happy to steal anyone's ideas or profitable advise and run with it to milk it for all it's worth.
I have been most fortunate to have some very smart people give me lots of advise that has been spot on and been significant in me making good money .
When someone that has the runs on the board tells me something, I at least give it a go before I reject it.
Not everything works for everyone but a hell of a lot does that pales the rest into insignificance.
p.1 #13 · Do you give clients full resolution images?
cineski wrote:
There's more profit being a photographer selling to new photographers than selling your photographs.
This is so true. When I first started back in the 80's I do not recall any seminars offered for photographers. I saw the occasional pro flogging some gear at PMA and that was it.
Today one can not take a breath without inhaling the the marketing smoke of a thousand "rockstars of photography".
All of them selling "I Made Big Bucks in Photography and You Can Too."
p.1 #14 · Do you give clients full resolution images?
Hi Falconbach,
Pet photography in Iceland? Now thats a niche!
I shoot product and my clients are usually very specific as to resolution and format; but my clients are ad execs and art directors with very specific needs when it comes to images.
Your clients sound like they are similar to portrait and event end users, not professionals in the graphics field.
I would give your clients low res jpegs that they can use on social media and prints up to 4x6, and if they need more, see if you can make $$ on the prints or delivery of higher res image files.
Just dumping gigabytes of D800 full-res jpegs, tiffs or even worse...raw files... on your clients, can't be what they want out of the experience.
I'm just guessing of course what a typical pet owner that cares enough to hire a professional photographer to photograph their pet would want and what they would use the images for.
Some very successful shooters I know do dog show circuit. I'm talking serious $$ really!
Good luck with the biz, sounds great!
p.1 #15 · Do you give clients full resolution images?
For weddings and portraits I deliver at 3000px on the longest side. I actually had a client who was a photography enthusiast and he asked why that size if the camera I'm using is 24mp (he asked what camera I used). I said to him it's because I've had an issue early on in the past where a client was upset about images not being the same size, I had cropped some of the photos but delivered them all at high res, so they were varying sizes. By delivering all images at 3000px this does two things. It keeps all images a uniform size, and it keeps all of my weddings to less than 4gb which makes for easier delivery on USB drives as I can just buy in bulk and deliver them on disc.
Which leads me to the other thing. I deliver high res images on a USB for weddings. For portrait sessions I charge a session fee upfront. After the session I upload to an online ordering system where they can order individual digital files for a fee or all images from the session for a fixed fee. In addition they can order prints if they wish.
p.1 #16 · Do you give clients full resolution images?
elkhornsun wrote:
I give my clients full resolution prints. I also provide some JPEGs at 2400 x 3000 resolution that they can take to Costco or wherever to get cheap 8x10 prints made. These are also post processed though much less than the files I use to produce large prints.
I don't want something that is just OK out in the public eye for others to see. Not good for my image as a pro photographer.
What is a full resolution print? Does that mean you are printing your final file at 300dpi, and delivering that? I think I'd go out of business with 5Ds files...
I only deliver full-res files if the client pays (extra) for them, otherwise its 3000-pix in the long dimension. Most people don't need full-res files, just like they don't need full 'rights'...
p.1 #17 · Do you give clients full resolution images?
I agree with Trey.
Sound like he is describing me. With 15 + years of doing events I have learned the best approach on how to get the most return for my effort. When I started it was the "wild west" meaning that there was no model to follow. The technology was evolving. Printing on location was a "magical" process that really wowed the public. Few people had cell phones or digital SLRs. The internet was more of a novelty. Because I have a business background I tried to analyze the market . Where I can get the most money for my time. Then create marketing promotions for sales. Buy two 8X10's get one free, etc. I also realized that I only did business with 25% of the event people. So I decided to pre qualify. Meaning I had them register with me including a deposit ($20 gets you $40 photo credit like a groupon ). Talk is cheap as the saying goes.You would be surprised by the response when you ask for any money. Then I have a short list of people who want my services. I can key on them knowing we will be doing business. I still spec a little but I try to work smarter not harder.
As for what I sell. The consumer is changing. Their life is in their hand. So they have little interest in books or prints. I offer low res "Facebook" quality packages. 4 downloads for X. 6 downloads for Y. This has become very popular. I have always offered "added value". From the beginning at every event I offered a CD package for a fixed price. All their event pics ( full res ) on CD (give them 2copies for added value) with rights to publish for a healthy price. Including several prints for more value and to set a print standard. The public loves deals and perceived value.
Overall in my opinion you need to "prequalify" the market you wish to sell. Not necessarily what you like. Will the people I shoot be willing to buy these photos? What events are being neglected? The Little League does not need another shooter .
Many times people have said to me " you know what you should shoot". Then I say "who will buy them?" Blank look and they shut up
The market is depressed. Money is tight. So I think the only way to survive is to offer more value. Just sayin'.......
p.1 #18 · Do you give clients full resolution images?
Really interesting perspectives to event shooting specifically. I just started late last year shooting High School rodeo. My approach is very different than most event photographers as I have quickly realized. The quality of many event photogs in my area are not the highest quality, but they have a typical business model of no edit, shoot jpeg, and upload files to their website the same day and sell 8x10s for $20.
Does it work? Not exactly sure as I don't personally know any of them, but my guess is that it is working for them since many of them have an established foothold on certain events (another topic for another thread), and haven't changed their strategy in years. I approached event photography as a hobby and not to make profits, so my strategy is goes against most advice talked about here.
I take up to two weeks after a two-day event to post all the images since I carefully edit all my shots. I know I could probably be making profits if I were to crank them out straight out of the camera and upload the same day, but then I'd be like everyone else and not happy with my work. I get lots of request to throw a persons images on a CD for a certain price, but so far, I have not offered this service. My prints do quite well on my website, which has kept me happy.
The profits I do make, go right back to the non-profit organization that I shoot at in the form of raffle give-aways, silent auctions, and year-end awards which has been the most rewarding for me than anything. The smiles and reactions are unforgettable when they see a big 16x20 quality print!!!
My project for this year is to start offering portraits at the events (once I get a lighting system). This might help recover some of my expenses and help me buy better equipment.
Mar 05, 2016 at 04:16 PM
glort Offline • • • • [X]
p.1 #19 · Do you give clients full resolution images?
Weasel_Loader wrote:
My project for this year is to start offering portraits at the events (once I get a lighting system). This might help recover some of my expenses and help me buy better equipment.
I shot horse events for 3.5years. My experience with that which has been almost a carbon copy of everyone I have spoken to around the world, tells me that putting pics online 2 weeks after the event would kill about 95% of potential sales of the business model you oppose.
As to the pics on your website doing well, I have to wonder what that equates to in monetary terms, especially as an hourly rate?
IF you like doing this for fun and the business is secondary, terrific. If you have any hope of making more than about $2 an hour, I think you will be dissapointed.
Having a hobby is easy, making any worthwhile money from it is something else.
I like your pics but as a business in a competitive and tough market to begin with your business model is completely non viable.
That may be fine for you but I think you need to be clear about that and decide Wether it's a a hobby you want to do for yourself or a real business.
The requirements are very different for each.
p.1 #20 · Do you give clients full resolution images?
glort wrote:
I shot horse events for 3.5years. My experience with that which has been almost a carbon copy of everyone I have spoken to around the world, tells me that putting pics online 2 weeks after the event would kill about 95% of potential sales of the business model you oppose.
As to the pics on your website doing well, I have to wonder what that equates to in monetary terms, especially as an hourly rate?
IF you like doing this for fun and the business is secondary, terrific. If you have any hope of making more than about $2 an hour, I think you will be dissapointed.
Having a hobby is easy, making any worthwhile money from it is something else.
I like your pics but as a business in a competitive and tough market to begin with your business model is completely non viable.
That may be fine for you but I think you need to be clear about that and decide Wether it's a a hobby you want to do for yourself or a real business.
The requirements are very different for each. ...Show more →
Couldn't agree with you more. I certainly understand where you are coming from.
Since I don't rely on photography for income, I'm happy keeping my current workflow for the moment. Its only when I lust for new gear do I open myself up for a new strategy.
