That is pretty cool! Thanks for sharing. Every once in a while I think about replacing my 7D + 500ver1 IS with a 7D2 + 400DO II. I figure between the sensor improvements and lens improvements I will get about the same image quality.
speedmaster20d wrote:
Hi Romy, thanks. The 7D2 slows down quite a bit when you use an extender and it's not as accurate in my experience.There is a wide gap between it and the 1Dx when it comes to flight performance.
Best,
Chuck Westfall (corrected spelling) says otherwise. He says the 1dx and 7dii are the fastest drives for Af system with their circuitry.
gschlact wrote:
Chuck Westfield says otherwise. He says the 1dx and 7dii are the fastest drives for Af system with their circuitry.
I am curios, where did you see he compare the two and say they were equal in servo drive speed?
The main factor that determines servo drive speed is the voltage of the battery pack, which is higher for 1D (11.2V) vs. 7D/5D series (7V). Actually Chuck also pointed out this fact in one of my interviews several years ago : http://www.arihazeghiphotography.com/AH_CW_interview/
If you own a 1DX and a 7D2 it is also easy to compare them side by side and come to the same conclusion.
Ari,
Here is the link where Chuck shares the info. You are absolutely correct that the AF drive voltage plays a part in lens Af speed, However what you neglected is the fact that it is not the battery voltage alone that creates the drive voltage. Circuitry sitting between the two can be used to step-up the voltage for driving af.
gschlact wrote:
Ari,
Here is the link where Chuck shares the info. You are absolutely correct that the AF drive voltage plays a part in lens Af speed, However what you neglected is the fact that it is not the battery voltage alone that creates the drive voltage. Circuitry sitting between the two can be used to step-up the voltage for driving af.
Thanks much Guy, very nice comparison. However, I can't find anywhere that is specifically mentioned the EOS 7D II is as fast as the EOS 1D-X, it only mentions that they are both faster than the EOS 5D III. In the footnote it mentions that list of lenses that allow enhanced servo drive with the EOS 1D-X but there is no mention of the 7D2.
Furthermore servo drive speed with EF extender is not mentioned in this article which was the main point here. I also don't notice a big difference between 1D x and 7D2 when using a bare lens, they differ once you add an extender.
When I attach my 600 II, 300 II or 400 DO II + 2X III to my 1DX the servo drive speed is strikingly faster than the 7D2, I suggest you also try this test.
To clarify this further I will contact Chuck and share his response.
The wording was where He called the 1dx and 7dii a Draw in drive speed. This was not referencing any use of extender. It will be interesting to hear additional clarification he share with you. In the mean time, let me ask whether you are using TC II in iii s when you say you see the 1dx as much fast Af than 7dii.?
On my 7dii with 70-200 f2.8ii, in comparing the 1.4x ii and iii, to me it was night and day difference. If your answer is II, it would be interesting g to know whether the iii enables the faster drive circuitry of the 7dii.
gschlact wrote:
The wording was where He called the 1dx and 7dii a Draw in drive speed. This was not referencing any use of extender. It will be interesting to hear additional clarification he share with you. In the mean time, let me ask whether you are using TC II in iii s when you say you see the 1dx as much fast Af than 7dii.?
On my 7dii with 70-200 f2.8ii, in comparing the 1.4x ii and iii, to me it was night and day difference. If your answer is II, it would be interesting g to know whether the iii enables the faster drive circuitry of the 7dii....Show more →
Hi Guy,
I think it's mentioned in the review but I have been using series III TC's since they first came out in 2009. The series III TC's have a micro-controller that can talk to the CPU in the series II super-telephoto (i.e. 300 f/2.8 II, 400 f/2.8 II, 500 f/4 II, 600 f/4 II and 400 DO II), and the 1D-X in order to improve AF speed and accuracy according to Canon.
Chuck just confirmed what I said above regarding the extender, this is his response to my email, he mentions the camera programming. i.e. firmware in cameras other than 1D X lower servo drive speed when an extender is attached to a super telephoto lens.
quote: Camera programming:
As you have observed, the EOS-1D X maintains full lens drive speed in bright conditions even when an EF 2X III is used with an IS II super-telephoto prime lens, but lens drive speed is arbitrarily reduced under the same conditions with EOS bodies other than the 1D series.
Nice review, but it does read like a cut and paste PR release("Chuck" on his email list?), and with no disrespect intended, by someone that tends to be a Canon favorite. Having said that, I've used pretty much all of Canon's super telephoto's, including this lens and I do agree with his results, just without the flag waving!
There's no point in mentioning price as a negative since all of the big lenses are bloody expensive.
IMO, the only real negatives for this lens are the relatively long minimum focus distance, and for some, the unusual point light source rendition. Otherwise it's a fabulous lens and maybe the best of all for a lightweight bird rig.
Arash, what's your opinion on the AI servo speed of the following combos?
On paper, for BIF shooting, it seems to me that IQ is a wash (if the 7DII is shot at 1 stop lower ISO), 7D II is longer/lighter/cheaper with more selectable AF points, while the 1Dx is 2 fps faster.
7D MII + 400 DO II + 1.4x TC III:
- 20 MP + AOV of 900ish mm at f/5.6
- All AF points selectable
- noisier pixels offset by 1 stop brightness edge
- 10 fps
- lighter/cheaper
1Dx + 400 DO II + 2x TC III:
- 18 MP + AOV of 800 mm at f/8
- Only center AF point group selectable
- 12 fps
Liquidstone wrote:
Arash, what's your opinion on the AI servo speed of the following combos?
On paper, for BIF shooting, it seems to me that IQ is a wash (if the 7DII is shot at 1 stop lower ISO), 7D II is longer/lighter/cheaper with more selectable AF points, while the 1Dx is 2 fps faster.
7D MII + 400 DO II + 1.4x TC III:
- 20 MP + AOV of 900ish mm at f/5.6
- All AF points selectable
- noisier pixels offset by 1 stop brightness edge
- 10 fps
- lighter/cheaper
1Dx + 400 DO II + 2x TC III:
- 18 MP + AOV of 800 mm at f/8
- Only center AF point group selectable
- 12 fps ...Show more →
Hi Romy,
For me the 7D2 has never worked well so I don't recommend it personally. The AF wasn't accurate in my experience for flight, I tried 3 different bodies and got mixed results with them. But my standards might be different than other folks, especially the sharpness that I like to see in my RAW files.
The center only point + 4 expansion could be limiting in some situations, examples capturing a small owl in flight. As for servo drive when I compare the two side-by-side the 1D X is slightly faster with the 2X compared to 7D2 plus 1.4X with my 400 DO II. As Chuck mentioned the 7D2 slows down the drive arbitrarily when an extender is added. But keep in mind AF drive speed ins't everything when it comes to tracking BIF. The 400 DO + 2X III is a great combo but it doesn't replace my main flight rig that is the 600 II.
Liquidstone wrote:
Arash, what's your opinion on the AI servo speed of the following combos?
On paper, for BIF shooting, it seems to me that IQ is a wash (if the 7DII is shot at 1 stop lower ISO), 7D II is longer/lighter/cheaper with more selectable AF points, while the 1Dx is 2 fps faster.
7D MII + 400 DO II + 1.4x TC III:
- 20 MP + AOV of 900ish mm at f/5.6
- All AF points selectable
- noisier pixels offset by 1 stop brightness edge
- 10 fps
- lighter/cheaper
1Dx + 400 DO II + 2x TC III:
- 18 MP + AOV of 800 mm at f/8
- Only center AF point group selectable
- 12 fps ...Show more →
The 7Dm2 combo has faster AF. I've not had issues with the AF with my 7Dm2. I know some people struggle with high density sensors versus full frame in getting sharp images.
Thanks for that. The 1Dx and 7D also have also have better high ISO DR.
It's a tough trade. I really don't care about the 5 fps that much. It would be nice to have one camera that can do landscape and wildlife. I guess maybe I'll end up with both the 7D2 and the 5DsR.
For me the 7D2 has never worked well so I don't recommend it personally. The AF wasn't accurate in my experience for flight, I tried 3 different bodies and got mixed results with them. But my standards might be different than other folks, especially the sharpness that I like to see in my RAW files.
The center only point + 4 expansion could be limiting in some situations, examples capturing a small owl in flight. As for servo drive when I compare the two side-by-side the 1D X is slightly faster with the 2X compared to 7D2 plus 1.4X with my 400 DO II. As Chuck mentioned the 7D2 slows down the drive arbitrarily when an extender is added. But keep in mind AF drive speed ins't everything when it comes to tracking BIF. The 400 DO + 2X III is a great combo but it doesn't replace my main flight rig that is the 600 II.
Hope this helps and good to hear from you! ...Show more →
Thanks for the detailed reply, Arash.
In my brief experience with a beta 7D MII and a bare 600 f4 II, AI servo AF was the best I've shot so far, better/faster than the 1D MIV and 5D MIII especially at BIFs with busy a BG. But then, I've not used the 1Dx, so there's a huge gap in my personal knowledge.
One more question (hope you don't mind ):
With a series II f/4 big white + 1.4x TC III, is the following ranking in AI servo speed correct?
Iwas joeking wrote:
The 7Dm2 combo has faster AF. I've not had issues with the AF with my 7Dm2. I know some people struggle with high density sensors versus full frame in getting sharp images.
Thanks for the data point, that is actually what I was expecting. I hope we're both right, as Arash's review and great samples had pushed me over the edge - I had already ordered the 400 DO II, 7D2 and a set of III TCs.
I was seriously eyeing the 600 II, then the 600 DO was announced and I decided to wait for that. But then, my half-century old legs and arms are not getting any stronger, so perhaps a 400 DO II + TC IIIs will be ideal for me. When the 600 DO will be released hopefully within a couple of years, I'll work hard to convince my domestic boss to part with one of her kidneys.
Another thought... based on the apparent big white level IQ of the DO II (especially with TCs), it appears that Canon has successfully surmounted the technical challenges of DO design. If this is the case, the next 5 years will be very interesting for long shooters.
The dramatic weight and size reduction without sacrificing IQ and AF speed can make DO the preferred superteles over conventional big whites. I wonder what's the biggest DO lens they can design at a maximum weight of 13 lbs (the weight of the 400 2.8 IS). Is an 800 f/4 possible at that weight limit?
A 300 2.8 IS is about 2.2 times the weight of the 300 f4 IS. So, using that ratio, a 800 4 would be 2.2 times the weight of the 800 5.6. Let's say Canon could make that 9lbs using traditional elements, that would mean a f4 800mm would be just about 20 pounds.
Using DO technology, I'm guessing it would still be 14-15 lbs.
Liquidstone wrote:
Thanks for the data point, that is actually what I was expecting. I hope we're both right, as Arash's review and great samples had pushed me over the edge - I had already ordered the 400 DO II, 7D2 and a set of III TCs.
I was seriously eyeing the 600 II, then the 600 DO was announced and I decided to wait for that. But then, my half-century old legs and arms are not getting any stronger, so perhaps a 400 DO II + TC IIIs will be ideal for me. When the 600 DO will be released hopefully within a couple of years, I'll work hard to convince my domestic boss to part with one of her kidneys.
Pareng Romy, knowing a bit about what you like to photograph, I think you should have ordered 600 II and the set of MkIII TCs now, for maximum reach at maximum IQ, and still only moderately heavy.
I do not believe 600 f/4 DO will materialize soon at all, and instead we should see an early 800 f/5.6 DO which I'd expect to be quite pricey.
For those times when you do not feel like lugging anything heavy, why not get 100-400 II ?
):