What has communism got to do with Bresson and Bresson was right. I personally think the shots you seem to like look like everyone else's work for the most part. Seen it a million times. Nothing really creative in following the herd. But there is some real tension in the movement and a soul to this and the other photo that lacks in so much of the generic work you mostly see. Can't tell one photographers work from the next because they are all using similar equipment and following the same rules. Wasn't it Haas that said something like, and I am paraphrasing here; I would rather make what most consider crappy images that look like mine than make what many consider pretty pictures that look everyone else's pretty pictures.
Sep 30, 2015 at 01:22 PM
Andre Labonte Offline • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
airfrogusmc wrote:
What has communism got to do with Bresson and Bresson was right. I personally think the shots you seem to like look like everyone else's work for the most part. Seen it a million times. Nothing really creative in following the herd. But there is some real tension in the movement and a soul to this and the other photo that lacks in so much of the generic work you mostly see. Can't tell one photographers work from the next because they are all using similar equipment and following the same rules. Wasn't it Haas that said something like, and I am paraphrasing here; I would rather make what most consider crappy images that look like mine than make what many consider pretty pictures that look everyone else's pretty pictures. ...Show more →
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My point was that used in this context, Bresson was wrong.
Making different looking crap just to be different still results in crap. There are certain tried and true formulas that just work. There are times and ways to be different and there are ways that are different that just lead to more crap. Most people's attempts to be different just end up leading to the latter not the former. And I'm OK with that. As an engineer and scientist, I'm always testing new ideas in the pursuit of that thing that is different that just work and is novel ... most ideas fail, but every so often something works and I stick with it. But I jettison the crap as I go. So, while I admire Ian's attempt to find something new, it's not working.
True creativity is something that leads to something so compelling that others want to emulate it and it becomes tried and true over time. I don't see blurry images becoming something tried and true ... maybe a short-term fad ... like big hair in the 80's, or mullets!
Some of Bressons soft images have more soul and staying power (history has shown that) than almost any work by any photographer period. Images having soul that have something that takes it beyond the obvious is what we should be talking about. Again what doesn't work for you isn't the way it is for all. And the scientist thing might not be a good example when discussing creative endeavors. Ya know the right brain/left brain thing.
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Ah yes the relativism defense. There is always a fringe that wallow. When blurry images become tried and true, I'll change my position, but long ago burry went out the window and your blurry images are not bringing anything new or creative to the table. They are just blurry.
Sep 30, 2015 at 10:41 PM
Andre Labonte Offline • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
airfrogusmc wrote:
Some of Bressons soft images have more soul and staying power (history has shown that) than almost any work by any photographer period. Images having soul that have something that takes it beyond the obvious is what we should be talking about. Again what doesn't work for you isn't the way it is for all. And the scientist thing might not be a good example when discussing creative endeavors. Ya know the right brain/left brain thing.
There's a difference between soft and blurry. Ian's image is not soft, it is blurry.
As for the science thing, a number of scientists are some of the most creative and artistic people I know. But that is rather off topic ... it was meant to be an analogy, not a direct correlation.
Andre Labonte wrote:
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Ah yes the relativism defense. There is always a fringe that wallow. When blurry images become tried and true, I'll change my position, but long ago burry went out the window and your blurry images are not bringing anything new or creative to the table. They are just blurry.
All I mean is that I like them. You categorically stating that "it's not working" just means it's not working for you but actually that doesn't matter at all. I assume you take the shots that work for you - why would we both do that? I take the shots that work for me.
In addition, as you can see from the list above, I also take the in focus, properly exposed shots. But in a session I like to try all kinds of looks. I never take just blurry shots.
And you say that long ago blurry went out the window? Perhaps you should tell Magnum's Antoine D'Agata, or Paolo Reversi, or Michael Ackermann or Vee Speers? All at the very top of their game.
Ultimately I post here shots I took that I like. I find that some other people like them too.
The mood created in both of those images fits in my opinion and the photographs work for a few others also. Unlike science and math, absolutes on the creative side of art do not exist. In fact those are the things that destroy creativity in artistic endeavors and inhibit the creative process.
There are no rules.
What a few greats had to say about rules.
"When subject matter is forced to fit into preconceived patterns, there can be no freshness of vision. Following rules of composition can only lead to a tedious repetition of pictorial cliches." - Edward Weston
"There are no rules and regulations for perfect composition. If there were we would be able to put all the information into a computer and would come out with a masterpiece. We know that's impossible. You have to compose by the seat of your pants." - Arnold Newman
"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs." - Ansel Adams
"And in not learning the rules, I was free. I always say, you're either defined by the medium or you redefine the medium in terms of your needs." - Duane Michals
"And if you can find out something about the laws of your own growth and vision as well as those of photography you may be able to relate the two, create an object that has a life of its own, which transcends craftsmanship. That is a long road, and because it must be your own road nobody can teach it to you or find it for you. There are no shortcuts, no rules." - Paul Strand
"Photography is not a sport. It has no rules. Everything must be dared and tried!" - Bill Brandt
"I came from the outside, the rules of photography didn't interest me... "-William Klein "
...... a photograph can look any way. Or, there's no way a photograph has to look (beyond being an illusion of a literal description). Or, there are no external or abstract or preconceived rules of design that can apply to still photographs. " Garry Winogrand "
......so called “composition” becomes a personal thing, to be developed along with technique, as a personal way of seeing." - Edward Weston
Andre, by the way, this argument of soft in real world outside forum land was settled a century ago in photography (pictorial) and about 150 years ago in painting.
A few less than sharp images from one of my all time favorite photographers Roy DeCarava. All image are Copyright Roy DeCarava. If you are not familiar with his work I suggest looking him up.
Here is another example where blur can be pulled off in a body of work. Christophe Agou, a popular documentary and street photographer who recently passed away (RIP).
I've looked over each photo several times trying to find something to like...don't see it. Maybe that makes me a neanderthal. If I showed anyone a picture of the bottom half of a person walking down stairs, they would (justifiably) laugh at me.
I can't say that it works because of the blur, or that it would work better, or less well, if it were not blurred. For that matter, I can't say it works because it's black and white, or whether it would work better if it was in color, either. But the stirring in me says very clearly that it works.
