p.2 #2 · Which manufacturer has the most intuitive UI?
From my main usage with digital cameras, I can only compare between Sony and Canon.
Sony put a lot of electronic options and functions in one menu without separating functionality well enough. This is IMO the main reason why people struggle with the menus. I am using the A7R now for one year, and I still sometimes need to search for a function because I forgot where to find it in the sub-menus. At the beginning with the new camera, I found it very cumbersome that some important features were listed in the same menu with functions I have never used so far or are hidden in sub menus. Mainly I am missing a "Custom User Function" menu where existing sub-menu functions can be added and instantly show up. Canon does this well in my 5D MkII and also in the MkIII cameras. Meanwhile I am used to the main functions which I am using on my A7R, but I admit that this could have been more customer-friendly.
Regarding menus, Canon's menu workflow structure is currently better than Sony's. This said, I agree with a statement above that the mirrorless Sony camera also has a lot more options built in compared to a DSLR, also has apps which can be quite useful. I rather have more options and decide not to use them than to be limited upfront.
p.2 #4 · Which manufacturer has the most intuitive UI?
retrofocus wrote:
... This said, I agree with a statement above that the mirrorless Sony camera also has a lot more options built in compared to a DSLR, ...
I think you're referring to this starement,
bobbytan wrote:
It's not really fair to compare DSLR cameras with mirrorless cameras. DSLRs have fewer features, options and custom functions, so they are a lot less complex. Because DSLR menus are simpler they are also more intuitive and easier to navigate. So if you combine them all together I would say Canon wins hands down.
I don't know about the A7-series, but I'm pretty sure that my Canon 1DX has more built in options than most mirrorless cameras. Contemporary 'pro' DSLR are lot more complex mechanically and with respect to autofocus parameters than contemporary mirrorless cameras. Just sayin.
p.2 #5 · Which manufacturer has the most intuitive UI?
rattymouse wrote:
Several Fuji lenses have no aperture markings.
Yeah... this is fuji's way of telling you that cheap and zoom lenses get you in trouble
p.2 #6 · Which manufacturer has the most intuitive UI?
Great responses everyone! To clarify, I want to focus on the GUI or what you see on the rear LCD (though mirrorless cameras can display quite a lot in their EVFs so that counts as well if you feel like talking about it).
Naturally the UI includes physical buttons and dials (absolutely my preference), but what I'm researching is how the menu-driven systems have developed over time since digital became mainstream.
I really appreciate the insight though, and please keep it coming!
p.2 #7 · Which manufacturer has the most intuitive UI?
For me, the best UIs are the least used ones; by that I mean hard buttons VS software,and in this manner, Fuji works best for me. Well, maybe not so well because I find get into the menus so rarely that I have yet to become accustomed to them and seem to continuously have to looor things from scratch
Now back to topic, I do like Panasonic's menu ok, and Sony's the least, but I have not owned a touchscreen camera yet. My question to those who have is, do you find a touchscreen makes a difference in the user-friendliness of different brands? By that I mean does it change the order by which you like the different UIs?
p.2 #8 · Which manufacturer has the most intuitive UI?
taran wrote:
Further, none of the manufacturers above represent more than 1% of the actual pictures taken with cameras, COMBINED. The UI you should be concentrating on is that of the smartphone, specifically Android and iOS options, like instagram, and why they are so superior to digital camera UI's.
More troubling is the fact that none of the manufacturers above see that as the problem, "the software", and refuse to invest in a common GUI that streamlines the user experience for their cameras. Quite frankly, one new mount from Apple and I would expect every manufacturer above to die except for Leica... the future of cameras being software, something the japanese companies have never been able to grasp....Show more →
I completely disagree that the awful, unbearable, don't-let-you control-anything interfaces of Android/iOS/InstaSelfObsessedJackassGram/whatever are "so superior" to digital camera UI's. They are un. bearable. I don't even like using them as phones. Touchscreens are a failed technology. Autocorrect is a failed technology; it is not a substitute for being able to find the goddamn keys. Any mature, reasonable person would realize those things. But the crowd making appointments to try on the Apple Watch are neither. Nor are they intelligent.
And that's where we get to why the camera makers aren't worried about Apple/etc. They're in a different business. They're making cameras for photographers, they're not making hand-holding apps for toddlers. And sure, you're right that the toddler companies could destroy them. Just as the likes of Ke$ha and Nikki Minaj have destroyed the sales of [any musician with any talent of any kind]. Because people are morons. But I bet that just as there are plenty of music producers who would rather be starving on the street or working at McDonald's than helping to subject the world to any more Rebecca Black or Iggy Azalea songs, there are plenty of Nikon employees who know the ship is going down but wouldn't have it any other way than to go down with it. I stand with them.
(You are right, though, that the future even of real cameras is in software, and that the Japanese camera companies [even Sony and Samsung, even in their non-camera divisions making things like barely-usable bluray players that require 87 button presses to get to Netflix]) don't get that. But I submit their role model in getting over that should be Red, not Apple. Software should be used to bring MORE control to users, not less.)
sebboh wrote:
which ever one you've been using longest.
Definitely a lot of truth to this. My first decade of photography was exclusively Nikon, only the briefest experiences with other cameras, and I thought Nikon UI was clearly best (perfect, even). Once I spent some real time with some other systems, I was able to see the flaws in Nikon's (though it's probably still my favorite overall).
p.2 #9 · Which manufacturer has the most intuitive UI?
Lee Saxon wrote:
... They are un. bearable. ...
As in "un.dot.bearable!". I likes it.
Lee Saxon wrote:
I completely disagree that the awful, unbearable, don't-let-you control-anything interfaces of Android/iOS/InstaSelfObsessedJackassGram/whatever are "so superior" to digital camera UI's. They are un. bearable. I don't even like using them as phones. Touchscreens are a failed technology. Autocorrect is a failed technology; it is not a substitute for being able to find the goddamn keys. Any mature, reasonable person would realize those things. But the crowd making appointments to try on the Apple Watch are neither. Nor are they intelligent.
And that's where we get to why the camera makers aren't worried about Apple/etc. They're in a different business. They're making cameras for photographers, they're not making hand-holding apps for toddlers. And sure, you're right that the toddler companies could destroy them. Just as the likes of Ke$ha and Nikki Minaj have destroyed the sales of [any musician with any talent of any kind]. Because people are morons. But I bet that just as there are plenty of music producers who would rather be starving on the street or working at McDonald's than helping to subject the world to any more Rebecca Black or Iggy Azalea songs, there are plenty of Nikon employees who know the ship is going down but wouldn't have it any other way than to go down with it. I stand with them.
Definitely a lot of truth to this. My first decade of photography was exclusively Nikon, only the briefest experiences with other cameras, and I thought Nikon UI was clearly best (perfect, even). Once I spent some real time with some other systems, I was able to see the flaws in Nikon's (though it's probably still my favorite overall). ...Show more →
You kind of lost me for a while there, until you got to, "Because people are morons", and we were back on track. Then you mentioned N*k*n, and started to drift off...
p.2 #10 · Which manufacturer has the most intuitive UI?
Dont beat around the bush Lee....how do you REALLY feel?
I agree with a lot of what you said. " They're making cameras for photographers"
That's why camera sales are in a multi year free fall. There are a LOT fewer photographers than their are casual snapshooters. Smart phone sales have taken away all the casual users, leaving a tiny market for the traditional camera makers.
p.2 #11 · Which manufacturer has the most intuitive UI?
The use of "intuitive" is where I get hung up. That's like talking about "common sense" in that it avoids the rather important issue of "to whom?" What's intuitive to someone who's been shooting for 20 years will be different than what's intuitive for a 5-year-old whose experience with photography is limited to watching TV. To me, cameras are all tools, and tools with learning curves tend to be those that have more capability. But if you want to know what's most intuitive for a given market audience, then look at how that market interacts with similar devices already.
Personally, I don't mind Sony's NEX interface. I don't like it; it takes me a while to get the camera to do what I want it to; it feels like it was designed for people who don't want to be involved in the process of photography. But it is predictable and has its own internal logic, and I can make it work for my needs.
I'm most intrigued by the Leica T interface. I've read a lot about it, but I've never felt like I understood it. The touchscreen, move things about, tap-and-swipe kind of interface could be wonderful, allowing me to do what I want quickly and get back to the image, or it could be horrible, behaving unpredictably because it incorrectly anticipates what I want or how I want to do it. It probably falls somewhere in the middle.
If I were to develop a novel camera interface, it would involve semantic zooming and an extremely high level of customization, though that would be more for show-and-tell than for actual use. If I were to develop a new but mundane interface, one for my daily camera, it would have two modes: one that can access every possible option, but be cumbersome, and the other that could be configured to a set of options that I configure on a host computer or connected phone. Basically, leave the GUI for systems that have developed and matured their GUI "language" and intuitiveness, but give me an escape hatch so that I'm able to do something unexpected in the field when need be.
Then again, I like things that I can take apart and repair, which are often less convenient than their disposable counterparts, so I might not be the best source of opinion when it comes to consumer product design.
p.2 #12 · Which manufacturer has the most intuitive UI?
I hope the op doesn't use the results here as some sort of truth. To answer the question you've posed I would need to use all the cameras and brands that you've listed. All you're going to end up with here is what is the best UI of the most used cameras. I've used canon, Nikon and Panasonic .... I like Nikon the best , which is completely useless data for any proper research.
p.2 #13 · Which manufacturer has the most intuitive UI?
This is simply me asking people for their own biased opinions. Merely having a discussion. I of course am aware that none of this is scientific data. I'm just looking for opinions right now.
p.2 #14 · Which manufacturer has the most intuitive UI?
AbramG wrote:
This is simply me asking people for their own biased opinions. Merely having a discussion. I of course am aware that none of this is scientific data. I'm just looking for opinions right now.
The only real trend that I see very often is that Sony typically has the worst rated user interface and that Ricoh has the best, due to enormous customization ability. That means nothing to you personally until you try them but at the very least you know what your chances might be.
p.2 #15 · Which manufacturer has the most intuitive UI?
jcolwell wrote:
I think you're referring to this starement,
I don't know about the A7-series, but I'm pretty sure that my Canon 1DX has more built in options than most mirrorless cameras. Contemporary 'pro' DSLR are lot more complex mechanically and with respect to autofocus parameters than contemporary mirrorless cameras. Just sayin.
Yes, this was the statement I was referring to. I never used a 1D series camera, so I can't really compare here from personal experience. But I saw that the 5D MkIII for example had in my opinion a very complex menu with (too many) AF options - likely this is similar in the 1D series. I was more referring to options which mirrorless cameras have and DSLR don't - for example focus peaking, zebra, WiFi/internet functions (exemption is the 6D which has it), apps, different kind of image optimizers etc. Magic Lantern provide some of those functions for DSLRs, too but they are not automatically built into a Canon DSLR.
p.2 #16 · Which manufacturer has the most intuitive UI?
Lee Saxon wrote:
Touchscreens are a failed technology.
If any part of what you say were true, then compact cameras would still exist. There were many that had dedicated controls and excellent haptics, the touchscreen replaced them. Regardless of what you think of people who use them, the cameras you like and are describing will never be made again, nor will they be as inexpensive or useful as a smartphone.
p.2 #17 · Which manufacturer has the most intuitive UI?
dasrocket wrote:
Now back to topic, I do like Panasonic's menu ok, and Sony's the least, but I have not owned a touchscreen camera yet. My question to those who have is, do you find a touchscreen makes a difference in the user-friendliness of different brands? By that I mean does it change the order by which you like the different UIs?
I've not been impressed with the touchscreens I've used on cameras so far. It'd admittedly a small sample set, just the EOS M and Sony NEX-5R. The NEX-5R was preferable in this regard for me, as you didn't *have* to use the touchscreen and could completely disable it. The EOS M required it and couldn't be disabled. The one time I liked having a touchscreen on the NEX-5R was directly posting an image to Facebook with the app, using the d-pad to drive the keyboard wouldn't be any fun. Having upgraded to the A7 I don't miss the keyboard, as triggering a copy with NFC and cropping and posting from my phone is much more pleasant.
I'd note that I've been a touchscreen person in general for quite a while - I started using PDAs in 1999 with an old (even then) Apple Newton MessagePad (OMP), then a Newton 2000, and a string of WinCE, PocketPC, and Linux devices until the modern smartphone era. I also don't have decades of camera experience with manual SLRs - only film cameras I had were 110 or disposables.
All of this is to say that I didn't go into the experience predisposed to wanting to do things the old fashioned way, with a UI like a manual SLR or film rangefinder. I went into the camera world predisposed to doing things with a touchscreen, but found myself preferring a simple interface (RAW and dials).
I think a touchscreen enabled camera could be useful, but I've not seen it yet.
p.2 #18 · Which manufacturer has the most intuitive UI?
I've been a canon shooter ending with the 5D3, we use the D800e in our studio and my personal camera is now an A7r.
I voted canon. With the 5D3 they hit the best combination of ergonomics, button customisation options and menu. It really is a dream to use. I wish my older canons had been so good, especially the 1 series.
The Nikon D800e does not have an intuitive menu even after using them for a couple of years, no decent 'my menu' and I have to manual dive too often to set up custom stuff. The button layout has always been utterly excellent though I do prefer the canon rear dial for my clumsy paws.
The Sony A7r has wonderful button customisation but access to crucial functions is not available without menu diving. The buttons are horrible to use, too small, without tactile feel and very badly placed. Every single one of them. The A7II seems to improve somewhat on this apparently but at the expense of the control dials. The menu is a nightmare of badly placed items and there is desperate need for a 'my menu'. As much as I love the camera, I spend too much time fighting it. It's worth it though for the IQ and tiny size. At least until something better comes along and I win the lottery .
p.2 #19 · Which manufacturer has the most intuitive UI?
Since it seems the OP was talking specifically about screen / menu UI and not the entirety of the UI, I'll say that my answer to that is none of them. The focus on the former at the expense of the latter is in fact the whole problem with a lot of "modern" UI design, and what I was getting at with my complaints about touchscreens and smartphones. The less you have to open those menus the better.
Lee Saxon wrote:
Touchscreens are a failed technology.
taran wrote:
If any part of what you say were true, then compact cameras would still exist. There were many that had dedicated controls and excellent haptics, the touchscreen replaced them. Regardless of what you think of people who use them, the cameras you like and are describing will never be made again, nor will they be as inexpensive or useful as a smartphone.
I don't agree at all. I don't like and was not defending compact cameras. Compact cameras sucked for any number of reasons and offered very little value over the integrated camera in a phone. But that does not change the fact that the touchscreen smartphone UI's are AWFUL for "real" cameras, nor the general fact that touchscreens have been around far, far too long now to still be as imprecise and unreliable as they are.
The reason smartphones are cutting into not just compact camera sales but DSLR and CSC sales, before you bring that up, is that the DSLR and CSC makers had managed to trick people who never needed a DSLR or CSC into buying one. Those people are switching now that Apple/etc have given them what they really wanted/ needed all along. That is NOT an indication that Apple/etc are showing us the direction that DSLR and CSC should go for the people who actually want/need those cameras.
The opposite, in fact, is true. They need to stop it with the cheapo outdated processors, the artificial feature restriction, the pointless incremental updates, and generally with trying to sell D3300's and Digital Rebels to people who'd be happier with iPhone 6+. They need to sell their D810's by packing everything they POSSIBLY can into them, not by removing the AF-ON button from their D750's. They need to get serious and go pro. In other words, again, they need to be looking to Red, not Apple.
p.2 #20 · Which manufacturer has the most intuitive UI?
Sony and Olympus are the absolute worst of any I've used (Sony, Canon, Olympus, Fuji, Panasonic, Samsung). I still have nightmares about the EM5's menus. Panasonic, Canon and Samsung were/are the best for me. Samsung NX1 menus are incredibly easy to navigate and the touchscreen works great.
