p.2 #1 · Returning my A7II, sticking with Nikon plus m4/3
I think this thread has some worthwhile information and is certainly not a sony bashing effort. As a pro Canon user who has had some shoulder problems...I have been looking for a lighter alternative for a day to day pro system...my 5d
mark3's have been great..esp with the incredible lenses like the 70-200 2.8II which allow sharp hand held shots even at 1/20th sec consistently. I just cannot hoist that behemoth repeatedly all day any more.
I have been searching for a lighter alternative for 8 months now...started with the Fuji xt1...a really promising system with exceptional lenses. I think that camera makes a good supplement to my current canon system...but falls short in certain areas...esp hi iso and flash flexibility. I am trying to find one system that works.
I did own a Nikon d750 briefly...but my example was not focusing accurately ..so
I sent it back. I now do most shooting with a canon 6d which is considerably lighter than the mark3...it is very good...but still not light enough.
I recently bought a Sony a7II and was initially very pleased with it. Files are incredible when you nail focus...but that is a problem. My particular body seems to missfocus almost every time on the first shot...then it gets better...this is using
just the center focus point in one shot mode. It is inconsistent enough that I really couldn't trust it on paying work. I have played with it in all different modes and light levels...still have not achieved consistency. The steady shot is not up to
canons is levels either. So far have only used the 55 1.8 I will call sony next week to see if I can get some help
p.2 #4 · Returning my A7II, sticking with Nikon plus m4/3
echelonphoto wrote:
Did all that....there is def. a problem with the camera...simple...when camera beeps and locks on a well defined area...its should be in focus.
Unfortunately it's an ongoing issue with Sony's MILCs - it's the only MILC I've used that produces OOF images after a successful AF confirmation beep. The NEX-5N was much worse in this regard and the situation have improved markedly since then but I still see it on the A6000 and A7-series bodies.
p.2 #5 · Returning my A7II, sticking with Nikon plus m4/3
No issue here...Must be copy dependant, my A7II focuses quick and accurate every time. Send back cameras that don't... or contiunue to lug your Canon/Nikon much larger heavier DSLR... Happy A7II owner.
p.2 #6 · Returning my A7II, sticking with Nikon plus m4/3
echelonphoto wrote:
I think this thread has some worthwhile information and is certainly not a sony bashing effort. As a pro Canon user who has had some shoulder problems...I have been looking for a lighter alternative for a day to day pro system...my 5d
mark3's have been great..esp with the incredible lenses like the 70-200 2.8II which allow sharp hand held shots even at 1/20th sec consistently. I just cannot hoist that behemoth repeatedly all day any more.
I have been searching for a lighter alternative for 8 months now...started with the Fuji xt1...a really promising system with exceptional lenses. I think that camera makes a good supplement to my current canon system...but falls short in certain areas...esp hi iso and flash flexibility. I am trying to find one system that works.
I did own a Nikon d750 briefly...but my example was not focusing accurately ..so
I sent it back. I now do most shooting with a canon 6d which is considerably lighter than the mark3...it is very good...but still not light enough.
I recently bought a Sony a7II and was initially very pleased with it. Files are incredible when you nail focus...but that is a problem. My particular body seems to missfocus almost every time on the first shot...then it gets better...this is using
just the center focus point in one shot mode. It is inconsistent enough that I really couldn't trust it on paying work. I have played with it in all different modes and light levels...still have not achieved consistency. The steady shot is not up to
canons is levels either. So far have only used the 55 1.8 I will call sony next week to see if I can get some help...Show more →
I had the same focusing issues with my A7II. Lots of misfocuses even after confirmation. I decided it was so bad it wasn't worth the struggle (it was much worse than an A7 I had previously) that I sent it back. This was before the new firmware update so I don't know if that would have fixed it or if the copy was defective. I'd like to test it but I'm reluctant to buy another copy just to test this.
p.2 #8 · Returning my A7II, sticking with Nikon plus m4/3
echelonphoto wrote:
I did some experimenting and turned off the af assist light....seems to be somewhat better
You have installed the 1.1 firmware correct? I don't own the A7 MkII myself, but I've been following the posts (especially over at getdpi). Others reported the latest firmware seemed to help with the issue you are experiencing.
p.2 #10 · Returning my A7II, sticking with Nikon plus m4/3
Tariq Gibran wrote:
I'm surprised you thought the Sony A7II AF would remotely compare to that of a higher end Nikon DSLR like the D750.
This.
Given the amount of information on this Forum (and others) - I can't understand why anyone that's 'on the fence' as OP puts it, would think that a prime attribute of the A7 series is DSLR functionality.
p.2 #11 · Returning my A7II, sticking with Nikon plus m4/3
Squinty wrote:
This.
Given the amount of information on this Forum (and others) - and the fact that anyone with half a brain does their homework before buying a camera - I can't understand why anyone that's 'on the fence' as OP puts it, would think that a prime attribute of the A7 series is DSLR functionality.
I tend to disagree. The early info about the A7 II was generally very positive. I don't think it deserved all those kudos, but I don't fault anybody reading all the early impressions for thinking this camera was the best thing since sliced bread.
I wrote about it on my blog, if you want to know more (click www below) about my take on the camera and how it compares.
p.2 #12 · Returning my A7II, sticking with Nikon plus m4/3
No one on a forum can really speak for a camera model as a whole. After all most of us are reviewing a single sample. And Sony isn't exactly knocking it out of the park as far as quality control goes.
Heck, Even Nikon has their issues. Isn't the "better" camera mentioned in this thread subject to a massive recall and currently removed from sale. The D750 has its own issues to deal with.
I have 5 A7xx cameras currently (2xA7 and 1x A7R, A7S and A7II). Of those the A7II is the best all round camera. *My copy*, is fantastic. AF is like a Canon 5D2's centre point, except it works every focus point. Start up is essentially instant. Focus is spot on. IBIS is worth it's weight in gold. And I'm very, very pleased about it's focus speed and accuracy in low light. I also have a good copy of the A7R. One of my A7's has some issues that the other doesn't.
If my A7II was doing the rounds then I think the reviews would be glowing. If Brett had ended up with my copy his opinion might be different. But they didn't. They got the crap shoot of Sony's poor quality control. And I think that's what Sony's biggest issue is. I've been reasonably lucky, except for one body I tolerate and one 24-70 I exchanged. But I can see why others would think the system still has serious issues to address.
If Sony really want to be a player they need to get their quality control issues sorted. Sending out multiple bodies with focus accuracy issues is not going to help them at all.
As a wedding and commercial photographer, I have no hesitation in using my A7II and lenses in any of my commercial activities. (I don't shoot sports though). And I'm as happy to shoot the Sony 55mm 1.8 as I am to shoot my Leica Summilux.
p.2 #13 · Returning my A7II, sticking with Nikon plus m4/3
flash wrote:
No one on a forum can really speak for a camera model as a whole. After all most of us are reviewing a single sample. And Sony isn't exactly knocking it out of the park as far as quality control goes.
Heck, Even Nikon has their issues. Isn't the "better" camera mentioned in this thread subject to a massive recall and currently removed from sale. The D750 has its own issues to deal with.
I have 5 A7xx cameras currently (2xA7 and 1x A7R, A7S and A7II). Of those the A7II is the best all round camera. *My copy*, is fantastic. AF is like a Canon 5D2's centre point, except it works every focus point. Start up is essentially instant. Focus is spot on. IBIS is worth it's weight in gold. And I'm very, very pleased about it's focus speed and accuracy in low light. I also have a good copy of the A7R. One of my A7's has some issues that the other doesn't.
If my A7II was doing the rounds then I think the reviews would be glowing. If Brett had ended up with my copy his opinion might be different. But they didn't. They got the crap shoot of Sony's poor quality control. And I think that's what Sony's biggest issue is. I've been reasonably lucky, except for one body I tolerate and one 24-70 I exchanged. But I can see why others would think the system still has serious issues to address.
If Sony really want to be a player they need to get their quality control issues sorted. Sending out multiple bodies with focus accuracy issues is not going to help them at all.
As a wedding and commercial photographer, I have no hesitation in using my A7II and lenses in any of my commercial activities. (I don't shoot sports though). And I'm as happy to shoot the Sony 55mm 1.8 as I am to shoot my Leica Summilux.
The copy-variation you describe is true for the conventional phase-detect AF systems in DSLRs because the optical path for PDAF is separate from the imaging path to the sensor and is thus is subject to manufacturing variances of both the body (mirror alignment, AF sensor alignment, etc..) and the lens (element decentering, tilting, etc..). This is why prosumer and pro PDAF cameras have AF fine tuning - to correct and adjust for these variances.
None of this is true for contrast-detect MILC systems (putting aside on the on-sensor phase detect technology, which isn't used anyway in the light levels I've seen the Sony MILC cameras misfocus). For these systems the focus should always be 100% precise at least from the contrast sampling POV since it uses the actual image sensor and thus automatically accounts for any variances and aberrations in the path between the lens to the sensor. The only remaining element that can result in misfocus is if the lens AF motor fails to move to the correct position for the final CDAF movement command but this is pretty uncommon even for DSLR lenses with large element movements and so even less common for smaller MILC lenses with smaller elements.
p.2 #14 · Returning my A7II, sticking with Nikon plus m4/3
wolfloid wrote:
I'm not sure I rely get this comment since, as far as I know, the a6000 has a much faster AF system than the A7II, and the post was about the A7II.
I like the OP's comment, because it is one more data point from an individual who has wanted to use the A7II, but can't make the swap from his D750.
I'm in the market for an A7II or an A9 but I still have reservations. The Nikon D750 does seem to be better in some respects, but I prefer the Sony A7II size, its image stabilisation, and the fact that I can use some of my M lenses on it. This post makes me draw breath before I buy and to wait to see what is offered in the A9.
I've also been comparing files between the A7II and the D750 at iso 6400, and my conclusion is that the D750 is noticeably cleaner and sharper. Sony should address these things. ...Show more →
Basically I was saying I use all three for my work. The A7ii has been perfectly fine for low light Wedding work The high ISO control is just as good as My old 5D mark III and the AF is tons better than the 6D. My 1DX killed it but it was also 5X as big and hard to lug around for a 12 hour day.
The AF has been fine, i just threw in all the stuff I currently use.
p.2 #15 · Returning my A7II, sticking with Nikon plus m4/3
snapsy wrote:
The copy-variation you describe is true for the conventional phase-detect AF systems in DSLRs because the optical path for PDAF is separate from the imaging path to the sensor and is thus is subject to manufacturing variances of both the body (mirror alignment, AF sensor alignment, etc..) and the lens (element decentering, tilting, etc..). This is why prosumer and pro PDAF cameras have AF fine tuning - to correct and adjust for these variances.
None of this is true for contrast-detect MILC systems (putting aside on the on-sensor phase detect technology, which isn't used anyway in the light levels I've seen the Sony MILC cameras misfocus). For these systems the focus should always be 100% precise at least from the contrast sampling POV since it uses the actual image sensor and thus automatically accounts for any variances and aberrations in the path between the lens to the sensor. The only remaining element that can result in misfocus is if the lens AF motor fails to move to the correct position for the final CDAF movement command but this is pretty uncommon even for DSLR lenses with large element movements and so even less common for smaller MILC lenses with smaller elements....Show more →
It should be. But it isn't. There's more than one person having focus issues with the A7 series. As well as other problems. I think that there's an issue with some Sony bodies that others don't have.
I don't propose to have a reason why there's issues with some bodies (or lenses) but there is. It could be hardware or software. I've got two A7's and with the same firmware, card and battery they have different start up times. Buggered if I know why. But they do. I suspect that Sony's firmware is buggy but since I'm not a programmer that's at best an educated geuss.
All I can say is that *my* copy of the A7II is fantastic and doesn't exhibit any of the issues others describe. At the same time Brett is a capable and experienced photographer and I don't doubt his findings.
p.2 #16 · Returning my A7II, sticking with Nikon plus m4/3
I am somewhat confused why someone would spend a few thousand on a system that, with a few simple clicks of a mouse, will tell you what warts it has. It is really simple. And because a person didn't choose to spend the time doing that they have to start a thread bashing said system? I hope they don't breed.....
I have had issues with other systems. Nikon really screwed the pooch by not admitting, yet admitting by saying send your camera in if you are in this serial number range, focus issues with the d800. I had three crap copies and hung it up and quit trying with them. Let alone, at that time, most if not all of their lenses were not up to snuff in the resolution their sensors in their camera had. It was good enough for most but they got the cart ahead of the horse. Can I mention nearly non existent customer service? I could go on.
I chose Sony for size for international travel, resolution, the lenses need to come out faster but I can work with it. I use them for architectural and landscape mostly with some street. And I will say the Sony system exceeds the Leica and Nikon which I used to own. For me it works great. Does it need improved upon? Sure. But right now the system is great for me.....and I knew that based on the research before purchasing.
p.2 #17 · Returning my A7II, sticking with Nikon plus m4/3
If you want fast focus get the A6000 or A77II. They both put Nikon and Canon AF to shame in terms of speed, accuracy and intelligence. Even their PRO versions can't keep up with them. Quite amazing what they are capable of. Forget the nay Sayers and see for yourself.
here is one mans point of view that goes into detail with clear answers.
p.2 #18 · Returning my A7II, sticking with Nikon plus m4/3
I just bought an A77II and own a D750 as well. I find the Sony difficult to get used to but that will take time to learn a new system with so many features. I also got a D7000 & D7100 and they can't touch the Sony for autofocus speed so even though I like them they are now up for sale. I find Sony A77II right there with my D750 for af speed and accuracy especially in low light. It's a great camera for the money.
p.2 #19 · Returning my A7II, sticking with Nikon plus m4/3
flash wrote:
It should be. But it isn't. There's more than one person having focus issues with the A7 series. As well as other problems. I think that there's an issue with some Sony bodies that others don't have.
I don't propose to have a reason why there's issues with some bodies (or lenses) but there is. It could be hardware or software. I've got two A7's and with the same firmware, card and battery they have different start up times. Buggered if I know why. But they do. I suspect that Sony's firmware is buggy but since I'm not a programmer that's at best an educated geuss.
All I can say is that *my* copy of the A7II is fantastic and doesn't exhibit any of the issues others describe. At the same time Brett is a capable and experienced photographer and I don't doubt his findings.
I've handled four A7's, three A7r's, three A7s's, and one A7II, and all behaved similarly in regards to their propensity for giving a false AF confirmation. They have varied in frequency and the specific LV conditions under which it occurs but the general behavior of allowing a false confirmation was common to all bodies. The fact that some photographers have seen this and others haven't can be more logically explained by the different situations and ways the bodies are used between photographers.
p.2 #20 · Returning my A7II, sticking with Nikon plus m4/3
johnvanr wrote:
I tend to disagree. The early info about the A7 II was generally very positive. I don't think it deserved all those kudos, but I don't fault anybody reading all the early impressions for thinking this camera was the best thing since sliced bread.
I wrote about it on my blog, if you want to know more (click www below) about my take on the camera and how it compares.
Well, firstly, some people seem to be quite ok with the AF, the fact that you weren't, with admittedly VERY little testing doesn't really say much. The OP seemed to be mostly speaking of AF, not sure why all this other stuff about seeing positive info on forums has to come into play.
Some fuzzy logic in your blog post as well. You said the weight increase between the A7 and A7II was significant, but that same or more weight difference doesn't seem to matter to you when comparing like cameras. The A7II is still significantly lighter than the other FF options and is even about the same as some APS-C options. You continually discounted FF when speaking of weight, size and cost. The competition for the A7 is not the cameras you think it is. While FF might not be that big of a deal to some folks, it is to the people who need/want it and the Sony wins the size/weight/price argument compared to everything else out there.
You're view is a fine one to have, but only if it's framed from where you're coming from as a potential buyer and how it fills your wants and needs as a user who doesn't care much about FF. Unfortunately, you didn't keep your article in that perspective and ends up coming across poorly. The biggest deal about the camera is that it's FF at such a low cost/size/weight and the fact is that the AF is good enough for a lot of people...now throw IBIS in there a long with legacy lens compatibility and there's nothing that can touch it for the people that any downsides it may have are livable.
You can't point out all it's downsides compared to APS-C cameras and not highlight it's upsides compared to it's FF competition. As someone who really appreciates FF, but can't afford it and doesn't want the weight and size, it's a revelation. To someone who doesn't care much about the difference between APS-C and FF? Not so much, but to that I'd say "of course, but what's your point then?".
