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Archive 2015 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!

  
 
Mescalamba
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p.6 #1 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Ricoh said something about a microlenses which deal with this issue, or not?

Another option would be, use clear filter, put UV/IR cutfilter on front of the lens..



Jan 21, 2015 at 05:56 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.6 #2 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


artur5 wrote:
I don't think it's because of technical problems that Sony choose the safe 'superthick' way. It's rather a sort of 'safety belt' for protecting their, still scarce, lineup of FE lenses
The theory that a thin filter has nasty drawbacks as increased fragility or IR contamination clashes with the fact that the Leica M240 doesn't suffer from corrosion or cracked sensors and, if it has some IR contamination, it must be very mild for I haven't seen significant complaints from Leica's demanding users base.


Our esteemed Ron Scheffler found IR contamination issues with the M240 and posted about it this past September. I'm sure a search would turn up plenty more about it but it's really not necessary since I doubt one could find a more reliable and knowledgeable source.

"Yes, IR contamination is still a problem with the M9 and also the M240. I shot a wedding with the M240 where the lapels of the guys' grey suits all shifted pink... it's one of the tradeoffs/compromises when working with a digital M."

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1315172/5#12553369

I don't know about the ricoh through first hand use though I imagine if anyone could solve it, it would be them. We have yet to see what they can do with FF 35 though.

As far as the argument that Sony would not go there in order to protect their own lens line, I made the same argument myself a while back. Reflecting on it now though, I'm not so sure the evidence supports it. For one, just look at the R&D Sony put into the RX1 and it's specially designed lens. If the solution to great performance could have been achieved using a very thin sensor stack, why then would they go to all that trouble to solve the problem optically in the lens design (very large rear element covering the sensor) rather than through the sensor stack (do we know how thick the RX1 sensor stack is btw?). Pretty much every other manufacturer utilizes a similar solution through the lens vs sensor stack I believe (Fuji x100, Ricoh GR, Nikon Coolpix A and even Leica X type 113). Anyway, perhaps I'm wrong but it appears to me that currently a thin sensor stack has it's own drawbacks and is still a bit of a compromise. It's not the panacea we would like to believe it is.




Jan 21, 2015 at 06:11 PM
uhoh7
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p.6 #3 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Tariq Gibran wrote:
As far as the argument that Sony would not go there in order to protect their own lens line, I made the same argument myself a while back. Reflecting on it now though, I'm not so sure the evidence supports it. For one, just look at the R&D Sony put into the RX1 and it's specially designed lens. If the solution to great performance could have been achieved using a very thin sensor stack, why then would they go to all that trouble to solve the problem optically in the lens design (very large rear element covering the sensor)
...Show more

Hi Tariq
No offense taken or intended

I think you may be on to the thinking behind the stack. The Rx1 is really their best camera to date. I have no idea what the stack in there is, but it could be thick for all I know. But I also think the sentiment "they did not care" is so true. They really ignored their most savy customer base built on the Nex. It would have been so easy for them to produce a special version with a thin stack for the many lens enthusiasts, but they could not be bothered.

Or to put it another way it was an idea too unorthodox (a special version) for the design team under the high-pressure circumstances.

"We have this huge processor, so lets put a nice big stack to hide the dust and give some extra filtration, perhaps for video applications, and then make some lenses which will work with the physics and the processor to get good quality."

Follow this link, then translate the interview, to see where I get this idea

But what annoys me is the opposite marketing on top of just ignoring so many fans.

"Sure we don't have many lenses, but use others, they work great"

Of course this line of marketing probably did not come from the design team at all. Their process, like most corporate affairs, was dysfunctional, to the detriment of loyal customers. They did not care enough about us to take care in design, and went off chasing novel windmills, probably on the whim of just a few people.

But the issue is so well known now, I will surprised if someday we see a special sony camera with a very thin stack.

We should all get them for half price



Jan 21, 2015 at 07:26 PM
charles.K
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p.6 #4 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Hi Tariq

I think that Sony is in a different league as to Leica, so their management decisions would be "safe ones" with the view to continuous improvements in production. I can see this in the many "almost invisible" and very apparent improvements from the A7r to the A7s and now the A7II. This is Sony's style and it works for them, running against our niche expectations!!

Leica has decades of M glass, so their market segment is differentiated and for Leica to succeed they have to cater for their niche but at a cost.

I feel if there are serious improvements and customers on a regular basis perform the thin filter/AA filter mods to the Sony A7 range then Sony may incorporate this as part of sensor design. I don't think we will see thin filter models from Sony for 1 or 2 years and only if it suits their marketing strategy. But I would be sure that Sony R&D would be evaluating the "thin filter" mods in-house as solutions would ease the complexity of the optics.

From our niche d perspective, the M glass offers the smallest, lightest and ergonomic solution for FF and there is decades of lenses that are readily available!







Jan 21, 2015 at 08:08 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.6 #5 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


charles.K wrote:
Hi Tariq

I think that Sony is in a different league as to Leica, so their management decisions would be "safe ones" with the view to continuous improvements in production. I can see this in the many "almost invisible" and very apparent improvements from the A7r to the A7s and now the A7II. This is Sony's style and it works for them, running against our niche expectations!!

Leica has decades of M glass, so their market segment is differentiated and for Leica to succeed they have to cater for their niche but at a cost.

I feel if there are serious improvements and
...Show more

Hi Charles, I agree with everything you have said. Nice summary.





Jan 21, 2015 at 08:42 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.6 #6 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


I think we have to keep in mind that Sony is trying to compete with Canon and Nikon not Leica. Canon and Nikon have cover glass about the same thickness as Sony chose. Would they get a competitive advantage by going with a thinner cover glass? Well, they might be able to make smaller lenses and they might attract some Leica users, but I don't see how it would really allow them to take on Canon and Nikon. In fact, I think it would make Sony quite vulnerable to criticism and prevent a number of people from switching if they chose a thinner cover glass. Keep in mind the tradeoffs.

First, a thinner cover glass will make dust much more obvious. Would that prevent some people from switching? I think so. With all the talk about dust magnets and so forth on the Canon forum here, I think it could very well prevent some people from switching and the Sony's would have more problems with dust.

Second, a thinner cover glass could well lead to IR contamination. Would that prevent some people from switching? Again in my view it would. Those sorts of quirks would lead Canon and Nikon users to say the system isn't really ready yet, IMO.

Third, the thinner cover glass would be more susceptible to breaking. Would that prevent some people from switching? Again, I can see the people fearful of having their sensor break and blowing this out of proportion just nor being willing to try Sony.

Fourth, the thinner cover glass gives them fewer options for AA filtering. How would this affect switching? Well Sony seems to have developed a strategy of quite different sensors in the A7 line. These different models give different people reasons to switch. I don't know if they could develop the different models without the flexibility in AA filtering. The A7r, it makes sense not to have a filter (the high pixel density is enough to prevent moire), but the A7s, IMO, definitely needs a filter or you would probably see a lot of moire. Would these different AA filtering strategies be possible with thiner glass? I don't know, but it would likely make it more difficult and that is another reason not to have the thin cover glass.

What about the smaller lenses? What I see Sony seems to be doing at least potentially anyway is developing three lines of primes. The first line is Sony/Zeiss and mostly f/2 and f/1.8 aperture. These lenses are designed to be excellent, fairly small and relatively unique in comparison to Canon and Nikon.

So Sony has a 55 f/1.8 that performs way better than anything Canon or Nikon has anywhere near this size. Canon's and Nikon's 50's are all based on double gauss designs, but the Sony is a Sonnar a bit longer (which it needed to be for a Sonnar or so the Suede has suggested) and really excellent. This lens is a good reason to switch and still reasonably small, IMO.

They make a 35 f/2.8 that is tiny and very good, but doesn't take head on the Canon 35 f/2 IS or the Nikon 35 f/1.8 G. The Canon and Nikon are both great lenses, but Sony doesn't have to try to beat them they can just make a different and much smaller 35 f/2.8 and Canon and Nikon don't even have a 35 f/2.8 auto focus lens. The Sony 35 f/2.8 is another reason to switch.

We also hear rumours that Sony is going to come out with a 25 f/2 by the end of the year. If they do, that lenses too would seem to fit the mould of trying to build an excellent lens that is different from Canon or Nikon that gives people a reason to switch. Canon and Nikon both have two 24's an f/2.8 and an f/1.4. So if Sony can make a 25 f/2 that is the size of the Canon and Nikon 24 f/2.8s (which I think they can), then they will have a unique lens that will again give people a reason to switch.

It will be interesting to see what the rumoured 85 f/1.8 will turn out to be. Perhaps part of the reason that this lens has taken so long to emerge is that it has been difficult to build one that gives people a reason to switch. I wonder how they might try to do so. Perhaps they will make it smaller than the Canon and Nikon 85 f/1.8s, but that would be hard. My guess is that is will be a Sonnar in the vein of the 55 that is sharp across the frame at f/1.8, which would set it apart from the Canon and Nikon.

If the rumours are correct, then they will have a very interesting set of primes with a 25 f/2, 35 f/2.8, 55 f/1.8, and 85 f/1.8, that is a great set of lens that are unique to Sony and provide a good reason to switch.

The second line of primes you can see in the upcoming 90 f/2.8 G macro and the Sony/Zeiss 35 f/1.4. These will be high level professional lenses to try to match the highest quality lenses from Canon and Nikon. These lenses, IMO, are not about trying to give people a reason to switch, but to take away a reason to stay with Canon or Nikon. The goal with these lenses will not to be smaller than Canon or Nikon, but rather to make a lens that is similar in size and performance to the lenses that some people won't want to live without.

The third line of primes that I think we may be seeing in the upcoming 28 f/2 is a set of small, very good, and relatively inexpensive primes that will allow Sony to compete more effectively with Fuji and Micro 4/3rds. These will be high performing small lenses. The 28 f2 seems well poised to compete with the Fuji 18 f/2 and the Panny/Leica 15 f/1.7.

Maybe I am wrong, but that is what I see in Sony's lens strategy and none of that would be aided by thinner sensor cover glass, whereas the tradeoffs of thinner cover glass could, IMO, really weaken their efforts to get people to switch.



Jan 21, 2015 at 10:48 PM
ZoneV
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p.6 #7 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Steve Spencer wrote:
...
First, a thinner cover glass will make dust much more obvious. Would that prevent some people from switching? I think so. With all the talk about dust magnets and so forth on the Canon forum here, I think it could very well prevent some people from switching and the Sony's would have more problems with dust....


The IR-Cut filter dont need to be near the sensor surface. So it would be possible to place a thin glass 2mm in front of the sensor surface, and the dust problem is minimized as well as with a thick glass.

Steve Spencer wrote:
...
Second, a thinner cover glass could well lead to IR contamination. ..


Depends.
With a additional interference coating a thin sensor glass could be possible without IR contamination. But the coating would be not ideal for RF lenses. For the original FE lenses they would very likely give no problem.

Regarding the stability:
Stability of thinner glas could probably be improved, but thicker glass would always be more stable. With the common sensor stacks I never heard of problems.
And with 0.5mm to 0.7mm thick sensor cover glass and 1mm thick filters I never broke the glass during cleaning (I work at a camera manufacturer).

Your fourth argument is valid, I suppose this is the reason. And as wrote before, I suppose the stay with that stack thickness even with the A7R has a reason too.



Jan 22, 2015 at 02:11 AM
uhoh7
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p.6 #8 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Hey, on a lighter note: what should we call these cameras?
A7+Kolari Mod = ?
A7r+ " " = ?

Maybe A7m and A7rm

"M" can stand for "mod" "M-mount" and most importantly "Michael", who got it all going



Jan 22, 2015 at 03:09 AM
charles.K
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p.6 #9 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Great idea Charlie! Some of the first batch of modified A7's should be back soon

A7M
A7rM
A7sM
A7IIM Not yet developed.

Lloyd's test results are out for the A7rM with 28/2.8 Elmarit. I don't think there is the same amount of improvement as with the 18 SEM and 24 Elmar, but still excellent at f/5.6 to 11. Again a large improvement with A7rM over the A7r stock version.



Jan 22, 2015 at 05:00 AM
mcbroomf
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p.6 #10 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


I noticed that there's an Image Sensor conference in March with a presentation by Schott that might be relevant to this discussion
(I think there's a typo on the 2nd line; "filers" should be filter)

http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.com/2015/01/image-sensors-london-conference.html

"Optical filter glass for image sensors
Prof Steffen Reichel, Development / Application, Advanced Optics, Schott

* Challenges for IR cut filters with BSI chips
* Evaluation of IR filers glass materials and lens design
* Recommendation for materials specifications and performance parameters for plano-plano IR filters "



Jan 22, 2015 at 06:32 AM
Beni
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p.6 #11 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Perhaps tongue in cheek but a lot of these posts seem to be based on Sony's wider strategy. Um, are we sure they have one? The advantage of the Sony's over a DSLR are size and weight. That's pretty much it, especially given the noticeable downsides of AF, battery life, etc. They then bring out lenses which to be frank both serve to negate that advantage while at the same time begging more for DSLR ergonomics. It does honestly feel like if they wanted to take on Canon and Nikon they are doing the wrong things and if they wanted to do something new and different, to woo the alt crowd, their lens and sensor cover decisions push them closer to traditional DSLR territory where they are not so competitive.

I've just bought a Sony FE 16-35mm, just for fun I had a look at this comparison, sort of makes my point. It's not really that much different any more to make up for what you lose, based on size alone. Even the weight isn't that different. You would knock the weight difference down to about 100g by the time you had enough Sony batteries to match what the single Canon one will do. Canon won't stay dumb on their sensors for ever and Nikon already have the Sony sensor. So what's left? The EVF, IBIS and 100-200g of weight? I'm worried that it's not enough to be competitive even if they do match AF, battery life, etc which is doubtful. Not to put IBIS down but I wonder if it's enough. Most Canon/Nikon type shooters care more about AF especially when most of the lenses are already stabilised.



Jan 22, 2015 at 08:03 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.6 #12 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Beni wrote:
The advantage of the Sony's over a DSLR are size and weight. That's pretty much it, especially given the noticeable downsides of AF, battery life, etc.


One could argue Sony is dragging CaNikon - and the traditional DSLR- into the future. An EVF is more and more important to many (particularly for manual focus), as is an articulating LCD and FF IBIS. Which CaNIkon FF includes all of these? Then, of course, there is the sensor (hello, Canon?)...I think the advantages do go beyond just size and weight.




Jan 22, 2015 at 08:35 AM
Matt Grum
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p.6 #13 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


uhoh7 wrote:
Re: the Clean slate. This one doesn't hold water for me, since there were only two lenses to start with


Firstly Sony did not start from a clean slate with the A7, it uses the E-mount and everything that goes along with that, including a suite of existing APS-C lenses. In addition to that the sensors weren't designed from a clean slate either, they were designed and sold to other manufacturers for use in DSLRs.

uhoh7 wrote:
Worse, many of their new FE lenses are quite large, e.g. the 70200 zoom and the 1635. The thick stack is driving what had the potential to be a great compact system, right into DSLR territory.


I take issue with the assumption that the filter stack thickness is a huge issue and the only reason behind larger retrofocal lenses on the A7. There are other issues related to ray angles and digital sensors that aren't caused by the sensor stack, and other image quality related reasons to move away from symmetrical designs (see Zeiss Otus 55mm).

Fortunately, if this mod becomes popular, there will be a lot of data available showing the extent of the effect of the filter stack in lens performance with many different types of lenses.



Jan 22, 2015 at 08:47 AM
artur5
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p.6 #14 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Most people here understands that Sony is a big corporation which needs to sell in quantities. Hence, the smallish niche that M glass 'aficionados' represent isn't their main target at all ( in spite of some marketing hype preceding the release of the A7 and A7r)
Therefore, their global strategy concerning the IR flters and the other features of the FF E-mount cameras is right from their business point of view. That said, nothing prevents Sony from releasing those A7rM and A7m (or A9M, etc.) tuned for RF glass. Isn't that they seem embarrassed at all for releasing more new cameras than lenses. One or two more wouldn't hurt their main market, would raise the appreciation of the Sony brand among that niche market and, as a collateral effect, perhaps would damage a bit Leica's sales..



Jan 22, 2015 at 08:50 AM
Beni
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p.6 #15 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Tariq Gibran wrote:
One could argue Sony is dragging CaNikon - and the traditional DSLR- into the future. An EVF is more and more important to many (particularly for manual focus), as is an articulating LCD and FF IBIS. Which CaNIkon FF includes all of these? Then, of course, there is the sensor (hello, Canon?)...I think the advantages do go beyond just size and weight.



I think the sensor argument is not enough at present to make Sony stand out. After all Nikon have them too. The EVF argument again is perhaps a bit weak given that the implementation needs to be improved. With start up time and EVF/LCD switching lag and proximity issues, I'd say that the EVF has as many down sides as advantages, it certainly slows me all the way down and especially if you are a C/N shooter for whom peaking is a strange creature that has to be wikipedia'd. I, like you, am somewhat nervous that the IBIS will not make the A7r line where due to the resolution it would be most welcome.

I think that an EVF and IBIS on top of comparable AF, battery life and responsiveness would be game changers, reasons to switch for a regular C/N shooter. An EVF and IBIS without those, is that enough? Especially when the Sony zooms, like C/N zooms are stabilised already? You end up with rotating LCD (already happening in DSLR's) and EVF which is far less necessary for AF shooters at best and a pain in the neck at worst. Keep in mind that IBIS and EVF have never been enough to draw C/N shooters in the past even with bodies which do not share this Sony's lines disadvantages, namely the A99.

Steve made some good points above about why certain lenses may appeal enough incite switching. Problem is that there is no underlying plus that exists throughout the lens line. Most people don't switch for a single lens. You might want what the 55mm 1.8 has to give or what the 35mm has to give but they are very different things. How many people switch for what a single lens brings to the table? A typical C/N shooter is a system shooter not a single lens shooter.

I think my point is that as a system C/N shooters would be better off where they are at present and for alt shooters the cameras are lacking due to sensor glass issues and even the IBIS doesn't work as well. It's like Sony can't make up its mind what side of the fence it wants to come down on, is trying to straddle the fence and ending up lacking for both camps.



Jan 22, 2015 at 09:18 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.6 #16 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Beni wrote:
I think the sensor argument is not enough at present to make Sony stand out. After all Nikon have them too. The EVF argument again is perhaps a bit weak given that the implementation needs to be improved. With start up time and EVF/LCD switching lag and proximity issues, I'd say that the EVF has as many down sides as advantages, it certainly slows me all the way down and especially if you are a C/N shooter for whom peaking is a strange creature that has to be wikipedia'd. I, like you, am somewhat nervous that the IBIS will not
...Show more

Currently, it just comes down to use case scenarios. For sports and action, high end FF DSLR's currently have the advantage but for most other uses, things swing towards mirrorless. For a studio or landscape shooter, having the ability of instant magnification to ascertain critical focus in any part of the frame through the finder is a game changer for instance. As far as Alt shooters, having the ability to mount and use any lens is a huge plus. The current sensor glass issue just applies to the wide angle rangefinder subset of alt users, which didn't even exist for FF until the A7's arrived just a little over a year ago (hard to believe and a bit early to be writing the obituary perhaps?).

I do think Sony have realized that they can't compete with CaNikon on their own turf. That was proven with the market failure of the exceptional a900, as well as the lack of meaningful penetration by future A-mount bodies. Sony has clearly found success though the E-mount though. It's going to be interesting to see how the AF of the upcoming pro oriented FF E-mount body (A9) measures up.




Jan 22, 2015 at 09:44 AM
Beni
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p.6 #17 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Hey if the A9 has 50 megapixels, no AA and 14 bit raw then I'm buying one for our studio almost immediately to replace our Leaf MFDB. As a friend said, for the price these cameras give almost the same quality and are disposable. You shoot them to death, chuck, buy another and write it off as a loss. To give you an idea our Phase One DF has died after having 3 new shutters and two new mirrors at a horrendous cost and the A9 will still be half the price of a new DF. It's a whole new world out there.


Jan 22, 2015 at 09:54 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.6 #18 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Beni wrote:
To give you an idea our Phase One DF has died after having 3 new shutters and two new mirrors at a horrendous cost and the A9 will still be half the price of a new DF. It's a whole new world out there.


That's crazy. The school I taught at had an old Leaf back married to a Mamiya and it proved to be reliable. Maybe the quality control has decreased with the Mamiya bodies since Phase took over? I know first hand that the Mamiya 645's from the 90's were very reliable. We used to run at least 50 rolls a day through them constantly on catalog shoots.




Jan 22, 2015 at 10:02 AM
Beni
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p.6 #19 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Tariq Gibran wrote:
That's crazy. The school I taught at had an old Leaf back married to a Mamiya and it proved to be reliable. Maybe the quality control has decreased with the Mamiya bodies since Phase took over? I know first hand that the Mamiya 645's from the 90's were very reliable. We used to run at least 50 rolls a day through them constantly on catalog shoots.



The DF has a rated shutter life of 30K. We've shot about 400K frames on it in two years (repro studio) so based on what it's supposed to be, we've not got that bad a life out of our investment. What bothers us more is the requirement to ship to Denmark for repair (and associated costs) and down time. Oh and the fact there is not a far better solution for what is a ridiculously over priced POS camera.

Basically you need to buy two at a cost of $12,000 and factor in repair costs of another $5500 bi-yearly if you you want to use the camera as a factory workhorse like we do. A tech camera with an electronic shutter rated to 1 million clicks would be the most sensible option to replace it however Rollei who made one type of electronic shutter has a rocky present and future and Horseman makes one but for how long? it's not something I want to invest in as a long term solution.

We are using a D800e at present but the aspect ratio is losing us a lot of wasted megapixels on the sides and the Nikkor Macro's aren't good enough at the edges, I've just ordered an adaptor to trial our Mamiya lenses on it which we know are good enough. The digital back isn't FF 645 so it avoided the edges of the lenses unlike the Nikon and we're seeing the difference. It's interesting as the edge to centre differences are far more than you would expect from the photodo MTF ratings, we have two copies of the Nikkor 60mm and 105mm macros. It's not bad copies, we're seeing the same thing throughout.

At present we have two options. Either stick with MFDB's and use a Hartblei H-Cam which can mount the Mamiya lenses and the back and uses the same Mamiya shutter but the shutter is user replaceable and actually they will supply it cheaper than Phase One (500 Euro's apiece). That way we have almost no down time, a cheaper camera than the DF, no mirror box and affordable yearly repair fees. The only problem is that we will have to upgrade our Leaf Aptus back to the Credo back to gain Live View for focusing. We're waiting to hear from Leaf how much this will cost, the dealer has told Leaf to be 'nice' or they lose us to Nikon or Sony for good.

Or we buy a 50 megapixel A9 with uncompressed 14 bit files (assuming/hoping for those specs). The extra 10 megapixels will make up for the aspect ratio losses, it will cost peanuts given what we're used to, we mount the Mamiya lenses and just enjoy having a modern sensor in a modern camera with modern live view. It would however need to have rock solid tethering to Capture One, something even the A7r doesn't have yet. The best part is that we will be able to buy one new one every year for what we're paying in repair costs right now. That's a fact to make the accountants very happy.

Sorry if I bored everyone else...



Jan 22, 2015 at 10:22 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.6 #20 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!


Beni wrote:
I think the sensor argument is not enough at present to make Sony stand out. After all Nikon have them too. The EVF argument again is perhaps a bit weak given that the implementation needs to be improved. With start up time and EVF/LCD switching lag and proximity issues, I'd say that the EVF has as many down sides as advantages, it certainly slows me all the way down and especially if you are a C/N shooter for whom peaking is a strange creature that has to be wikipedia'd. I, like you, am somewhat nervous that the IBIS will not
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I'm not so sure that when competing with Canon and Nikon you have to be able to compete as a system. What I see even reflected around here is that the A7 series can hook Canon and Nikon shooters without having them adopt the system. So, if you are Canon shooter and you want a better sensor with more resolution, the A7r is very tempting, and you can still use all your Canon lenses so it isn't all that expensive. For a landscape Canon shooter it is almost a no-brainer. If you are a Nikon shooter and you are interested in video, then I think (but I don't know video that well), the A7s blows away anything that Nikon offers for video and you can still use your Nikon lenses, so it isn't that expensive. So, if you are a Nikon shooter who wants to test out the waters in video the A7s is a pretty compelling option and although there are other options the Sony one is a big draw. Or perhaps you just want a travel camera as either a Canon or Nikon shooter, then the A7 or A7 II can make a lot of sense.

Now, I think that Sony hopes that once they get the foot in the door in this way with Canon and Nikon shooters, that they can get you further through the door by offering some great and unique lenses. I think that strategy has worked well so far. And it looks like the long term strategy is to develop pro level cameras and lenses to try to get people all the way through the door to make a system switch, but that is just in its infancy and although a lot is riding on that for Sony, it is very hard to judge how that will turn out. IMO, however, they have done a great job of getting people to put their foot in the door and already I think it is bearing fruit in getting some Canon shooters to switch. If Canon makes a great sensor this year, then that flow may subside, but if they don't I expect maybe not a flood of Canon converts, but at least a very steady stream.

And to keep this on topic, if they made a thinner filter stack, then IMO this strategy of luring Canon and Nikon shooters would be much more difficult. C/N shooters lenses would not work as well on the Sony cameras giving them a good reason not pick up that extra Sony camera for the relevant particular use.



Jan 22, 2015 at 10:31 AM
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