p.26 #1 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
Hi Rich,
The ZM 25/2.8 is a great lens, particularly for landscapes as you suggested originally. I do not have the results with the ZM 25 with the A7 series, so I cannot offer definitive comparisons. It was a favourite lens of mine on the M9 and M240.
This morning I have received a Leica M 28 Elmarit III, Mandler designed lens from a member, Rocky here in Brisbane. Initial testing with the 28 Elmarit III is everything I was looking in rendering with a 28mm lens. At f/2.8 it has the true look of a Mandler lens, yet closed down to f/8 the lens performs extremely well with the A7rM. This is the style of lens that I was searching for with the A7rM. A lot more testing will be needed, and see how it performs on the A7II and A7s. The look of the lens feels like a 28 Cron Asph at f/2.0 under good lighting.
p.26 #3 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
Michael and Charles,
Thank you for your input and thoughts. Longevity of using the lenses into the future is certainly of importance to me and we are all speculating as to what Sony will do in the future and whether the sensor stack modifications wil be offered for future models.
Charles,
I will wait for some of your results and assessments. Charlie has suggested from his experience that the M 28mm f2.8 doesn't get as sharp as he would like into the corners. But, I will wait to hear from you.
Maybe I should reassess everything again and try to get people to chime in on the M 28mm f2.8 VIII, M 28mm f2.8 IV and the M 24mm f3.8 Elmar Aspherical. At least all 3 of these lenses should probably better match the "look", rendering, color rendering, etc. of the lenses that I already have in my kit of lenses.
p.26 #4 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
Hi LightsShow and Rich,
I will post some pics soon. I have take many so far, but nothing worthy of posting online with M28vIII. The rendering and colour is sublime, so for street photography having a unique Mandler signature will be great. The fall off and bokeh is gentle, particularly for a 28mm lens. I find even my 35 Lux FLE can be harsh.
My perspective will be different, as I look for the Mandler lenses. If the look and rendering gel, I will try and use them in my lens lineup for portraits/street photography.
p.26 #5 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
Rich, of those three I'd go with the 24/3.8. The 28 v.4 probably isn't quite up to the technical abilities of current Leica glass. From what I've seen in Charlie's photos of the v.3 on the M9, I wouldn't consider it for critical technical work where high outer zone performance is required.
That said, if price is a factor, I'd get the ZM25. I've only used it on Leica M, but it's really impressive. It's also reported to feel a bit longer, so might be more around 26mm, which would be a good gap between the WATE and 40/2. This of course assumes you will modify the a7R. I've seen them used in the ~$850 range, so not too bad. And you could always trade up to the 24/3.8 later.
Do you find color is consistent across your Leica R lenses? My experience with M glass is it's not guaranteed. If I consider the 21 Lux, 21 SEM and 50 Lux ASPH as a baseline with consistent color characteristics, then the 28 Cron and to a lesser degree the 90 Summarit lean to the magenta side, while the 90AA is a bit on the cyan/green side.
Charles - good luck with Rocky's 28 v.3. I saw it in the B&S and was extremely tempted by the price, to buy for its rendering character over sheer technical merits.
p.26 #6 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
Congrats Charles, I'd love to see some long landscapes with both lenses. My own v3 Elmarit is really only good close in and edges are not close to the cron, but that may just be my copy, or my focus
I expected it to be better, and since copy variations are for real especially in the 80s, it's entirely possible mine is an outlier. Derek thought it was decentered.
L1028088 by unoh7, f/5.6
I need to try mine again on A7.mod
The zm25 really made it's reputation on film, but on digital I hear mixed reports, so again it will be very interesting to see this one at infinity with distant details in the corners and one edge. I think Gary loves his on M240.
You are such a good shooter that I always remind myself not to be hypnotized by one of your gorgeous shots with centered subjects
I agree with Michael and Ron about the 24SEM, which aside from speed is simply one of the very finest RF lenses ever made by anyone. I have seen them under 2K. I would love to own one.
p.26 #7 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
Thank you Charlie With regards to the M28vIII it will depend on what you wish to photograph of course. I just think I am a Mandler fan
Thanks Ron
I agree the 24 SEM would be a great choice, but for Rich, it is probably getting to close to the WATE. I do see there are some sample shots with the FE 28 which look very good.
Quick shot of my wife at work
A7rM with M28vIII @f/2.8 1600 ISO. I added both B&W and colour shots.
p.26 #8 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
I'm mostly interested in having as close to no color cast as possible and less smearing than from a stock A7rstrait from the raw, I have little interest in using any type of corner fix.
p.26 #10 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
I want to thank everyone for the suggestions and guidance.
After much deliberation at this point and though I was really considering biting the bullet for purchasing a Leica M 24mm f3.8 Aspherical lens, and though I could have used the lens on an unmodified A7r camera at about f8, as Charles has indicated I find the focal length just too close to that of my WATE at 21mm. I used to enjoy the 24mm focal length with my Leica R cameras and normally carried it instead of my 21mm Super Angulon lens that I had generally due to the filter size.
As to the M 28mm Summicron, at this point it is just too expensive when combined with requiring me to also include the cost for the $400 upgrade to the A7r sensor stack and at this point to speculate that future cameras can also have a thin sensor stack, I am holding off on this purchase.
Though the ZM 25mm f2.8 may be OK as an option, it too would always require a thin sensor stack I have at least for now decided to hold off on such a purchase.
Since it doesn't appear that I can find an M 28mm lens that can offer high performance into the edges and the corners even at about f8 without a thin sensor stack, it pains me but at least for now I think that I will just bear the extra weight and volume of carrying my R 28mm f2.8 V2 lens into the field.
Any of the options would have only saved me about 6 oz to my pack/bag weight plus the 3 oz weight of the Novoflex R to NEX adapter (plus the convenience of having 1 or 2 adapters if I included the helicoid). If I can live with going from the 40mm M-Rokkor to the WATE with nothing in between that would save me over 18 oz between the weight of the R 28mm lens and the Novoflex adapter. 18 oz of weight savings is really something to consider.
When I purchased my M 90mm f2.5 Summarit, that made much more sense to me for volume and weight savings when I did not want to carry my R 100mm f2.8 Apo-Macro-Elmarit (which I will probably substitute for the 90mm Summarit particularly when I want to be prepared for macro work, though I will test the performance of Summarit with the heliicoid). That was a weight savings of 14 oz plus the weight of the Novoflex R to NEX adapter. That savings was the weight of my WATE plus the 67mm filter adapter.
p.26 #11 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
Great photos here with the modified A7R cameras! I didn't look through all pages here in this thread, but is there any potential or observed disadvantage by doing the modification/conversion on the A7R? Do SLR/DSLR lenses still work the same after the modification on this sensor? I am asking because I am using both rangefinder and (D)SLR lenses on my A7R.
p.26 #12 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
Has anyone tested a converted A7r with the Canon tilt/shift lenses? I'm mainly asking because it seems that these lenses still showed a small quality benefit on Canon SLRs in the extreme corners.
p.26 #13 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
retrofocus wrote:
Great photos here with the modified A7R cameras! I didn't look through all pages here in this thread, but is there any potential or observed disadvantage by doing the modification/conversion on the A7R? Do SLR/DSLR lenses still work the same after the modification on this sensor? I am asking because I am using both rangefinder and (D)SLR lenses on my A7R.
Both questions dealt with earlier in the thread. In short, there are always trade-offs but they may or may not matter to you. For example, the dust shaker is disabled and thinner glass makes dust on the sensor cover more visible. As to SLR lenses, the theory (as described by Roger and Brian's analysis on the Lens Rentals blog) seems to hold on practice - all lenses designed for film will improve, but the degree of improvement varies.
Too much to restate the details. Respectfully suggest you run through the thread for detailed info.
p.26 #14 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
mdemeyer wrote: In short, there are always trade-offs but they may or may not matter to you. For example, the dust shaker is disabled and thinner glass makes dust on the sensor cover more visible.
That's clearly a disadvantage, Michael. However, a benefit to Kolari's sensor cover would be ability to use Gel Sensor Stick by Eyelead, which was previously incompatible with Sony sensor covers (I am referring to the original blue stick, but its German manufacturer recently released a new, Sony specific version that apparently is less sticky and will not affect coating on Sony stock covers)
p.26 #15 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
Oh, that's interesting about the Eyelead product. Is it the same blue gel as in the Kinetronics Specgrabber? I found the Specgrabber worked great with a Canon sensor but left smudges on the Leica M240's, despite several cleanings of the gel.
Rich, that probably makes the most sense. FWIW, the new Sony FE28 is looking pretty good, at only $450. But it won't really buy you and size savings, and perhaps only a bit of weight. Rendering may also be a bit mellower than the R28.
p.26 #19 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
uhoh I think that the Elmarit V3 looks great - it reminds me a lot of the Minolta M-Rokkor 28 and is very acceptable at f8. Seems to have a bit of a mid zone dip at f5.6 very similar to the Minolta in that respect.
p.26 #20 · A thinner sensor stack may be possible after all!
Charlie, I really like how the Elmarit V3 renders. Really nice! It is not harsh or clinical, as I had found in the past with the 28 Elmarit Apsh with harsh ambient lighting.
Nico, great shots!!! You have an amazing eye for shape/designs and architectural compositions. BTW great shot with the 28 Elmarit Asph which from Lloyd results was more problematic.
Jack, great information about the Eyelead, Gel Sensor Stick!!! Thank you
Ron, I agree the look of the new FE 28, this maybe the preferred option for the 28mm FL.
Rich, I would try the new FE 28 before anything else as it may prove to be another FE 55 in relative performance. IMO I am not interested in the adapters.
