p.4 #1 · Stupid Ken Rockwell may cost me a customer!
Working against a negative perception seems like an uphill battle...I wouldn't want a situation like that myself. I don't have anything to prove to people. They either like me in the beginning or they may never like me. Preaching to your own choir is easier than preaching to the opposing religion's choir.
FWIW, I've recently had an interaction with the cousin/friend of a bride-to-be who is looking at someone else's work vs. mine and liking the other photographer (who is more expensive). The bride-to-be likes the other photographer's work better, while the cousin/friend is trying to convince the bride that my work is comparable but the difference is in the locations, i.e. the venues I have shot at are less "upscale," making my work not necessarily seem as upscale/good?...At any rate, I just today responded explaining that I would rather not try to convince the bride that my work is comparable/etc. for a lower price than the other photographer because it is an uphill effort all the way that may end up with everyone not being as satisfied with the situation as they could/should have been.
Similar kind of situation, I don't want to argue my point over someone else for business. I practice what I preach at least 20% of the time.
p.4 #5 · Stupid Ken Rockwell may cost me a customer!
This has been a issue, almost since hiring people to shoot weddings became popular. If your weren't shooting medium format... Well, it was a talking point others could use against you whilst pricing.
Either way, in the long run... your work should speak for itself. Bottom Line.
WE ALL KNOW, it's seldom the equipment...usually always the shooter. She either likes what you have produced, or, doesn't.
But in a nutshell, this is probably one of those 'be careful what your asking for' deals.. Just take the loss and walk. Ken was a dick, he writes like a dick, and the people that follow him are mindless dicks. I could line up quote after quote from this guy that just smells to high heaven. Let alone some of the screwy predictions he's made.
p.4 #7 · Stupid Ken Rockwell may cost me a customer!
Maybe it's better you bring your 2 cameras, and her d7k, probably with a 18-55 on it. And show her how different the photo will be after the 3 camera shooting session.
p.4 #8 · Stupid Ken Rockwell may cost me a customer!
Paul Mo wrote:
That's total garbage. Do you think customers should start telling Joël Robuchon how to cook? No, they are there because he is both professional and very talented - they are there to experience his magic. Kowtowing to customers over a camera body is not professional - politely yet firmly telling them they are wrong is.
I'm glad to hear you are so successful you can afford to run customers off. I keep reading where wedding photography is a dying business, taken over by kids willing to do it for 100 bucks. With attitudes like I've seen here, I can see why it's happening. Then again, maybe you are big and rich just like Nikon, the company so many love to b!tch and moan about?
Flat out telling a customer they are wrong is no way to run and grow a business. Tactfully educating them is far more rewarding, and gets you more business and income.
My parents owned a neighborhood bar for over 30 years. I learned a lot in the business. We sold because I had a good job and the neighborhood was starting to change. I did not want to be put at the mercy of some thug with a gun, or put in the lonhours ad late nights.
p.4 #9 · Stupid Ken Rockwell may cost me a customer!
Dave McGaughey wrote:
Ugh. She sounds like trouble. Shoot the engagement session and leave it at that. You can point out that the tools really don't matter - does she ask the carpenter what kind of hammer they use? Does it matter what kind of pots and knives the chef is using?
Trouble-yea. You can lose the wedding gig when you shoot engagement pics. I don't want to shoot engagement pics. I want to shoot the wedding pics.
p.4 #10 · Stupid Ken Rockwell may cost me a customer!
Just like Renee Zellweger said to Tom Cruise in that movie "Show Me The Camera"
....."Shut up, you had me at Stupid Ken Rockwell"
May 20, 2014 at 08:47 AM
barisaxer Offline • • • [X]
p.4 #11 · Stupid Ken Rockwell may cost me a customer!
She can hire Ken Rockwell. I am certain he will fly in and match your rate as she is so special, they deserve each other The problem is if it is on the internet it is true.
May 20, 2014 at 09:58 AM
Andre Labonte Offline • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.4 #12 · Stupid Ken Rockwell may cost me a customer!
Gregg Heckler wrote:
Being a professional photographer is more than talking good pictures. Given the amount of competition there is you have to be a good salesman as well. If you lose the order or can't convince the customer you can do the job, it's not Ken Rockwell's fault. On the other hand you have to be prepared to give the customer their money back or tell them to "take this job and shove it". I'm assuming you had a good enough portfolio that allowed you to get the job in the first place? So what is Maleficent worried about?
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Well said. It takes salesmanship. And sometimes it means giving a customer and education in a polite and informative way. At the end of the day, there will be some customers you cannot please and at that point you have to graciously walk away.
p.4 #13 · Stupid Ken Rockwell may cost me a customer!
It's true photography is a lot more about the business of photography tan just photography alone.
There are actually many good books I would hope people have picked up if they are seriously into the business of of photography.
Having the best portfolio that you can walk a client through is also important.
Of course, if someone gives you a link to Ken Rockwell, then I'd be red flagging the whole job and reviewing the clients expectations and the brief. Something has gone wrong with this job, and she's not confident for some reason. Sometimes, it's just the client, and that's it.
p.4 #14 · Stupid Ken Rockwell may cost me a customer!
runamuck wrote:
I'm glad to hear you are so successful you can afford to run customers off. I keep reading where wedding photography is a dying business, taken over by kids willing to do it for 100 bucks. With attitudes like I've seen here, I can see why it's happening. Then again, maybe you are big and rich just like Nikon, the company so many love to b!tch and moan about?
Flat out telling a customer they are wrong is no way to run and grow a business. Tactfully educating them is far more rewarding, and gets you more business and income.
My parents owned a neighborhood bar for over 30 years. I learned a lot in the business. We sold because I had a good job and the neighborhood was starting to change. I did not want to be put at the mercy of some thug with a gun, or put in the lonhours ad late nights....Show more →
Why didn't you keep the bar and educate your customers that a thug lifestyle wasn't the way to go.
p.4 #16 · Stupid Ken Rockwell may cost me a customer!
I wouldn't be dictated to by a prospective client as to what equipment to use. Best to say you are happy with what you use and if she would like to find another photographer that's her choice
p.4 #17 · Stupid Ken Rockwell may cost me a customer!
Nothing but a problem client ... run, don't walk away. Let's say she agrees to use your equipment. She will nit pick every shot you make and comparing it to what she 'thinks' a D7000 would do. I own a D7000 and a D700 and although the D7000 is a fine DX camera I wouldn't even consider it my primary body for an event like a wedding or similar.
May 20, 2014 at 01:10 PM
jim allison Offline • • • [X]
p.4 #18 · Stupid Ken Rockwell may cost me a customer!
I think it's fairly simple. She say's she hired you because she liked your photographs. Your photographs were taken with a D700 ergo she shouldn't be concerned with your choice of equipment. You are the expert. Your mistake was to engage in this conversation about camera choice in the first place. In this case you are the doctor and she is the patient. Does she ask the doctor what brand of X-ray machine he thinks is best or does she depend on his knowledge and expertise? For some reason she doesn't have confidence in you. You need to give her that confidence.
p.4 #19 · Stupid Ken Rockwell may cost me a customer!
OP - your problem just got worse... I just visited the crack*pot's site and is drooling over the D7000 today. What I find amusing - he is advocating a "screaming deal" on a D7000 refurb from Adorama for $996.95. Now tell me this... what sort of service is he doing, except lining his pockets from referrals telling people this is a screaming deal!! Did he think to look at the "screaming deal" nikon usa has on the refurbished D7000 for...... $619.96. What a jack*wagon!
Edit: Actually the Nikon USA deal is a very good one at that! I've been thinking about buying a D7000 for my daughter and since I don't yet have the privs to purchase here, I might just buy one from Nikon. Great camera!
p.4 #20 · Stupid Ken Rockwell may cost me a customer!
Having been in the service/retail business for 40 years, believe me...you do not want this client. She hired you because you are a pro and she liked your work, now she gets on the internet and she's an expert. Trust me, if you were to take this gig, no matter what happens she'll always hold the littlest things against you. It took me probably 3 decades to finally figure this out (it's hard to walk away from a sale), but there are some people you just can't win with and no money in the world is worth the aggravation that comes with their business.
The problem is if it is on the internet it is true.