p.2 #1 · Sony compression creates artifacts in A7r ?
dennishh wrote:
I just took a look at my D800e files and saw the exact same pattern. [...] Diglloyd says he wants to apply the same amount of sharpening to his A7r as the D800, this is way to much as far as I'm concerned .
I have applied as an import default slightly heavier sharpening to my D800 (not E) files and have moderated the approach for A7r files, having found my D800 regime often produced artifacts on A7r files.
As for whether the D800E / D800 files exhibit orange peel patterns found at high levels of magnification, I believe you but don't intend to go looking for them in either my D800 or A7r files.
There are bigger fish to fry. Literally... I want to find a large fish to pan fry.
p.2 #2 · Sony compression creates artifacts in A7r ?
MaxBerlin wrote:
Mawz - can you post an open link to the full size you made ? Thanks.
That's the JPEG as exported by LR, I normally don't ever create a full-rez JPEG (no need except for printing and I print directly from LR).
I also don't think it's relevant in this case, as the artifacts were clearly visible in your screen-size render and not in mine. I'd suspect there's two things going on, over-use of Clarity (which will create the sort of artifact that is visible from files which don't have it) and potentially some JPEG artifacting (which will wreak havok with the artifacts introduced by the clarity slider)
p.2 #3 · Sony compression creates artifacts in A7r ?
MaxBerlin wrote:
Some background info on Sony 'lossless'
I'm pretty sure that nobody had been claiming Sony's compression to be lossless. The question is whether their compression can cause perceptible detrimental effects. If 8x magnification is required, then I'm not worried.
p.2 #5 · Sony compression creates artifacts in A7r ?
itai195 wrote:
I'm pretty sure that nobody had been claiming Sony's compression to be lossless. The question is whether their compression can cause perceptible detrimental effects. If 8x magnification is required, then I'm not worried.
There's a problem here at 1X - I only use the 8X and 11X to show in detail what it is (pixel by pixel)
Again - it's compression on compression - (aka assumptions on assumptions)
There are hints of artifacts in the RAW - when they are converted into TIFF they are still visible - then it gets worse in sRGB, worser in AdobeRGB and worser still in ProPhotoRGB without any post or output sharpening.
Downsampling and small images won't show it. People don't buy 7360 px wide sensors to only net 2400 px wide images.
p.2 #6 · Sony compression creates artifacts in A7r ?
Thanks for the raw max. I did a search of my D800 raws for a similar deeply OOF area like the A7R coke image. Here's a 100% crop of a D800 rawat 11x as viewed in LR. This is from a lossless compressed NEF: http://horshack.smugmug.com/photos/i-4ptspcT/0/O/i-4ptspcT.jpg
And the full-sized JPEG here. The crop is from the unpatterened green area at the very top of the image.
p.2 #7 · Sony compression creates artifacts in A7r ?
Snapsy - I don't see any of the issues in the photo you posted. I also don't see any in the tonal transitions with this shot done on the NEX7 a few weeks ago. There is as much opportunity for the problem in these gradients as the 'coke bottle shot'
p.2 #8 · Sony compression creates artifacts in A7r ?
MaxBerlin wrote:
Downsampling and small images won't show it. People don't buy 7360 px wide sensors to only net 2400 px wide images.
Except that it's visible in your ~2000px wide JPEG and not in mine. Which argues strongly that there's a post-processing issue rather than a sensor issue.
People don't buy cameras to view at 100% (or 800%). People buy cameras to post screen-sized images and print full-size images.
And the fact it's not happening in your NEX-7 images is not relevant to your setting defaults being correct. I can't use the same defaults on my NEX-5R images or my D7100 images that I used on my NEX-7 images. Different sensors wan't different processing (I'm currently fighting this right now, my D7100 files don't like even a mild tweak of my usual preset, which worked with some camera-specific tweaks for the NEX-7, E-M5 and NEX-5R).
I've gone and exported a full-resolution JPEG, 100 quality and LR's standard 'Sharpen for Screen'
p.2 #9 · Sony compression creates artifacts in A7r ?
I really like the A7r and don't want to send it back. But I am not willing to make 200mb TIFFs, eliminate my ability to do some post, or have to downsample to get suitable images.
If someone has a process that can produce a full size JPEG without the artifacts seen in the 'lossy' photos posted on the above Flickr page - please share.
If A7 users aren't seeing these in full size JPEGs please advise.
p.2 #11 · Sony compression creates artifacts in A7r ?
MaxBerlin wrote:
Mawz - which color space did you use ? I am still waiting for the file to load.
Exported in sRGB, as all JPEG's should be for decent display across multiple devices. Never export in anything else unless your destination requires a specific colour profile (ie print or similar. I use AdobeRGB when producing JPEG's or TIFFs for print unless a specific device requires another space).
p.2 #12 · Sony compression creates artifacts in A7r ?
MaxBerlin wrote:
I really like the A7r and don't want to send it back. But I am not willing to make 200mb TIFFs, eliminate my ability to do some post, or have to downsample to get suitable images.
If someone has a process that can produce a full size JPEG without the artifacts seen in the 'lossy' photos posted on the above Flickr page - please share.
If A7 users aren't seeing these in full size JPEGs please advise.
Can you point to the specific flickr image that shows the artifacts at 100%? The only one I see that might resemble the orange peel artifact at 100% is the coke bottle one with JPEG posterization/tone smearing.
p.2 #13 · Sony compression creates artifacts in A7r ?
Here's a full-res image using the rendering settings that MaxBerlin listed on page 1, but my export rules (plus my sharpening, light NR and CA correction, as I listed above).
p.2 #15 · Sony compression creates artifacts in A7r ?
Mawz - I see 2 issues in the first full size you added and the 2048 on Flickr.
1. It's as if a number of magenta pixels were added into the image. I've looked at the twig to the right and up from the coke bottle enough today to know there is no magenta in that area. Your full size has it all over that area.
2. The 2048 jpeg you put on flickr has artifacts all over place. Garbage pixels (anything that's not a valid value) are all over that same area.
I will post to Flickr and add in a screen shot of the RAW for the magenta and garbage comparison.
p.2 #16 · Sony compression creates artifacts in A7r ?
This is the most ridiculous thread I've ever seen on FM. It's absolutely clear to me that the A7R stomps the image quality of all other FF cameras (except maybe the D800E).
Posting a badly post processed JPG and complaining that it doesn't look good on Flickr? Please.
p.2 #17 · Sony compression creates artifacts in A7r ?
ebrandon wrote:
This is the most ridiculous thread I've ever seen on FM. It's absolutely clear to me that the A7R stomps the image quality of all other FF cameras (except maybe the D800E).
Posting a badly post processed JPG and complaining that it doesn't look good on Flickr? Please.
Hey, don't spoil the fun! I needed a break from processing my A7R images from yesterday anyway.
p.2 #18 · Sony compression creates artifacts in A7r ?
MaxBerlin wrote:
Mawz - I see 2 issues in the first full size you added and the 2048 on Flickr.
1. It's as if a number of magenta pixels were added into the image. I've looked at the twig to the right and up from the coke bottle enough today to know there is no magenta in that area. Your full size has it all over that area.
2. The 2048 jpeg you put on flickr has artifacts all over place. Garbage pixels (anything that's not a valid value) are all over that same area.
I will post to Flickr and add in a screen shot of the RAW for the magenta and garbage comparison.
Anyone else see magenta in that area? I'm certainly not seeing any. Profiling issue maybe (could be on my side, it's been a little while since I've profiled my monitor).
I'm not seeing any artifacts either, aside from normal JPEG artifacting (which occurs even at 100 quality, JPEG is a lossy compression algorithm, and not a terribly good one, just an easy & efficient one). I do see some noise in the lower midtones/upper shadows.
p.2 #19 · Sony compression creates artifacts in A7r ?
ebrandon wrote:
This is the most ridiculous thread I've ever seen on FM. It's absolutely clear to me that the A7R stomps the image quality of all other FF cameras (except maybe the D800E).
Posting a badly post processed JPG and complaining that it doesn't look good on Flickr? Please.
You're not 'getting it'. There is a string of NO PROCESSED photos that show these artifacts.
As RAW, as TIFFs with no processing, before they get on Flickr and just screenshots.
You want your photos to look like shit when you go to look at them on a 4k monitor next year? Or that really great shot you thought you nailed is posterized and compressed ?
The NEX7 does a better job with tonal transitions than the A7r. That's a fact. You can stick your head in the sand if you want.
p.2 #20 · Sony compression creates artifacts in A7r ?
Max,
I think I know why you are getting the background posterization.
In LR, go to export and choose JPEG, color space: "sRGB". Do not choose "PhotoPro RGB".
Try that and let me know what you find.
Fred
Archive 2013 · Sony compression creates artifacts in A7r ?
I needed a break from processing my A7R images from yesterday anyway.