p.7 #1 · Zeiss 55mm f/1.4 Otus: The absolute best SLR lens
arionelli wrote:
to Carsten: with no disrespect, as I understand what you mean, but I'm still holding on to the f/1.2 notion...there's a lot of know-how behind these lenses.
I don't feel disrespected I also hope for a 50/1.2 and 85/1.2, updated versions of the Contax lenses, but when you look at the old lenses, from the days before electronic contacts in lenses, the rear element is generally larger than the largest elements possible once you have subtracted the area occupied by the contacts. Nikon's mount is narrow, and I think once the contact area has been removed, there is no longer enough glass area left over to make an f/1.2 lens like the old ones, with no size penalty. Do you have one of the older f/1.2 lenses?
p.7 #2 · Zeiss 55mm f/1.4 Otus: The absolute best SLR lens
darbo wrote:
Wow Wayne; beautiful tones in that one. The lens has a very appealing rendering quality. And the clarity gives a very immersive sensation.
Thanks Darbo!
When I took this shot I was really interested by the nice light filtering through between the buildings and hitting this area and noticed the woman walking into the scene and captured it. What I did not think about till later was how much this shows off the incredible sharpness and lack of any FC or aberrations into the corners while wide open. The woman near the left edge and the sign at the top are tack sharp even at 100%. Its sharpness across the frame and lack of coma and SA while wide open make it a very special lens and new level of IQ for dslr. Posting only a small jpeg like this does not show the fine detail of the woman's clothes rendered by this lens.
p.7 #3 · Zeiss 55mm f/1.4 Otus: The absolute best SLR lens
arionelli wrote:
Excitingly expensive (or expensively exciting) times for us Zeissianados in any case...
to Carsten: with no disrespect, as I understand what you mean, but I'm still holding on to the f/1.2 notion...there's a lot of know-how behind these lenses.
If the Otus is anything to go on (and it obviously is) the price for the wide will be hysterical. It would be interesting to see if Zeiss can deliver their first lens that equals or surpasses other lenses in vignetting wide open as well.
p.7 #4 · Zeiss 55mm f/1.4 Otus: The absolute best SLR lens
carstenw wrote:
Do you have one of the older f/1.2 lenses?
I played a very little with the 85/1.2 back in the early 90's on the Contax RTS2 (no pics though), but I remember just being awed looking through that combo lens and finder. I could have bought it then for $1500aud but that price was as stratospheric then for me as the ebay listings have them today. Sorry, I don't mean to pull the thread aside.
p.7 #5 · Zeiss 55mm f/1.4 Otus: The absolute best SLR lens
Rodluvan wrote:
If the Otus is anything to go on (and it obviously is) the price for the wide will be hysterical. It would be interesting to see if Zeiss can deliver their first lens that equals or surpasses other lenses in vignetting wide open as well.
Interesting question, especially given the dramatic wide open vignetting which a few Otus samples have shown.
Since a good part of the vignetting is just physics, and not dependent on the specific lens design, I don't think we should hope for miracles.
p.7 #6 · Zeiss 55mm f/1.4 Otus: The absolute best SLR lens
carstenw wrote:
Since a good part of the vignetting is just physics, and not dependent on the specific lens design, I don't think we should hope for miracles.
How do you mean? Isn't vignetting a result of shortcomings (if you will) in the (optical) design?
Vignetting is the area where most (all?) ZF/ZM/ZE lenses really seem to struggle. Perhaps with the exception of the 2/135, but if I'm not mistaken teles aren't as prone to vignetting anyway.
p.7 #7 · Zeiss 55mm f/1.4 Otus: The absolute best SLR lens
It can be fun to speculate about future Otus lenses, and we should not forget what the 55/1.4 is about. It is a mainstream aperture lens for its focal length. Where other manufacturers go for small size at this aperture, Zeiss go for ultimate quality. There will be no Otus 85/1.2 simply because chasing the limits for aperture is not what the Otus series is about. For short tele I guess 85/1.4 at most, maybe even 85/1.8.
p.7 #8 · Zeiss 55mm f/1.4 Otus: The absolute best SLR lens
Zeiss would not go with anything slower than 1.4, especially with an 85. The Otus is exactly about chasing the aperture limit but with a head and shoulder IQ above the competitors. Otherwise, they would just design a 50/2 APO for an even better 50, especially in vignetting. 1.2 is more about the compatibility with the F mount and half a stop might not be worth it in the end for the compromise.
p.7 #11 · Zeiss 55mm f/1.4 Otus: The absolute best SLR lens
There's little to be gained by a faster APO 135mm - the DOF is already very shallow as is.
As well, the < 1.4 lenses were solutions for gaining speed when IS/OSS wasn't available and variable ISO wasn't an easy solution.
I have two 1.2 lenses and don't see any real advantage over a 1.4 based on DOF.
Other than MTF the Zeiss 85mm 1.2 compared to the 85mm 1.4 does offer one advantage in that at 2.8 the bladesaw bokeh is gone but that's hardly a reason to justify the 4-5x price difference.
p.7 #13 · Zeiss 55mm f/1.4 Otus: The absolute best SLR lens
If you don't see the difference between 1.2 and 1.4, there would be no point to get it. It is not about the price difference.
Also I would take a faster lens any day if the size and weight are reasonable for me. You just have to be more creative with the new possibility that you don't have before.
p.7 #14 · Zeiss 55mm f/1.4 Otus: The absolute best SLR lens
alundeb wrote:
Going by the weight proportions of the Planar 50, Planar 85 and Otus 55, an Outs 85 /1.4 will weigh in at 1.7 kg
it's very doubtful that zeiss will need to use a distagon design to get otus level performance from an 85/1.4, so I don't think the size difference will be near as big. I'm guessing it'll be almost the same length as the 55mm otus.
p.7 #16 · Zeiss 55mm f/1.4 Otus: The absolute best SLR lens
Rodluvan wrote:
How do you mean? Isn't vignetting a result of shortcomings (if you will) in the (optical) design?
Vignetting is the area where most (all?) ZF/ZM/ZE lenses really seem to struggle. Perhaps with the exception of the 2/135, but if I'm not mistaken teles aren't as prone to vignetting anyway.
No, part of it is that (optical vignetting), part of it is digital losses (pixel vignetting, angled light hitting vertical wells), part of it is dependent on the angle of light hitting the sensor (natural vignetting, actually the cosine to the fourth), and of course, if filters or a bad hood block anything, then there is mechanical vignetting:
p.7 #17 · Zeiss 55mm f/1.4 Otus: The absolute best SLR lens
sebboh wrote:
it's very doubtful that zeiss will need to use a distagon design to get otus level performance from an 85/1.4, so I don't think the size difference will be near as big. I'm guessing it'll be almost the same length as the 55mm otus.
I'll buy that, and f/1.4 is fine as I can live without f/1.2.
Martin
p.7 #18 · Zeiss 55mm f/1.4 Otus: The absolute best SLR lens
carstenw wrote:
No, part of it is that (optical vignetting), part of it is digital losses (pixel vignetting, angled light hitting vertical wells), part of it is dependent on the angle of light hitting the sensor (natural vignetting, actually the cosine to the fourth), and of course, if filters or a bad hood block anything, then there is mechanical vignetting:
Only optical (and mechanical) vignetting can be dealt with by Zeiss.
Yes, I have rudimentary awareness of the effect of pixel wells and micro-lensing (particularly difficult for mirrorless cameras with full frame sensor to deal with, with short register, right?), but obviously I'm not talking about that; many Zeiss lenses do exhibit more vignetting on the same system than other lenses do so it's an optical aberration pertaining to the lens optics and design. Even the Otus, although superlative in just abut every single optical quality, isn't more than average in this apartment. Reducing vignetting just doesn't seem to be prioritized for Zeiss.
p.7 #19 · Zeiss 55mm f/1.4 Otus: The absolute best SLR lens
Rodluvan wrote:
Even the Otus, although superlative in just abut every single optical quality, isn't more than average in this apartment. Reducing vignetting just doesn't seem to be prioritized for Zeiss.
Aesthetically, more often than not, I prefer to keep the vignette from the Zeiss lenses rather than correct for it. Is it possible that Zeiss also prefers the vignette for aesthetic reasons to the extent that reducing it doesn't factor into their lens design? But, regardless you make a great point: The Otus is supposed to be a no-compromises lens, and yet it is compromised with respect to vignetting.
Right now, my greatest complaint with the Otus 55mm is: Why hasn't mine shipped yet!
I also hope for a 50/1.2 and 85/1.2, updated versions of the Contax lenses, but when you look at the old lenses, from the days before electronic contacts in lenses, the rear element is generally larger than the largest elements possible once you have subtracted the area occupied by the contacts. Nikon's mount is narrow, and I think once the contact area has been removed, there is no longer enough glass area left over to make an f/1.2 lens like the old ones, with no size penalty. Do you have one of the older f/1.2 lenses?