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Archive 2013 · Sony A7r some full resolution test shots

  
 
kroyston
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p.4 #1 · Sony A7r some full resolution test shots


uhoh7 wrote:
Best hope for tiny 35 I think is some version of the summicron, or very possibly the cv 35/1.4, but the latter, as Douglas says, it's more of a "people lens" due to distortion etc


Don't be so quick to rule out the FE 35, I'm confident many here will really make that lens sing. Factor in an adaptor, it is not much bigger than many adapted options.



Oct 28, 2013 at 05:53 AM
philber
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p.4 #2 · Sony A7r some full resolution test shots


Expecting the Lux 50 to be perfect across the frame wide open on A7R is not one of my dreams, since it is not perfect on my NEX 7. It has lower contrast than stopped down, and some CA, which also goes away when stopping down. Maybe it is my copy, but I suspect not, as I have never shot a high-performance lens that was genuinely as good wide open as stopped down.


Oct 28, 2013 at 06:16 AM
turnstyle
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p.4 #3 · Sony A7r some full resolution test shots


Perhaps an odd request regarding the Lux 50 ASPH...

I saw Ron Scheffler's test shots -- which is partly why I'm curious to see how Phillip's Lux 50 compared.

Can somebody perhaps post a similar photo that shows how the Lux 50 ASPH would otherwise perform on a Leica body? eg, it's "pin sharp" at the corners, wide open, on a Leica body -- but smeared on NEX7 and A7r (and, perhaps, A7).

Thanks, I'm hoping to get a better handle on expectations...



Oct 28, 2013 at 06:53 AM
Phillip Reeve
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p.4 #4 · Sony A7r some full resolution test shots



shelt wrote:
Here's the 50 Lux shot from the guys in Canada. Note, the focal point seems to be behind the sign, and there are sharp leaves and branches in most parts of the frame. Not the best test shot...

50 Summilux JPG

Well, it clearly shows much better performance than the copy in my test shots.
So pretty please guys, discuss the provided samples and don't waste your time on speculation based on a probably out of spec lens or faulty adapter from which you haven't seen any images.



Oct 28, 2013 at 07:05 AM
rscheffler
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p.4 #5 · Sony A7r some full resolution test shots


turnstyle wrote:
Perhaps an odd request regarding the Lux 50 ASPH...

I saw Ron Scheffler's test shots -- which is partly why I'm curious to see how Phillip's Lux 50 compared.

Can somebody perhaps post a similar photo that shows how the Lux 50 ASPH would otherwise perform on a Leica body? eg, it's "pin sharp" at the corners, wide open, on a Leica body -- but smeared on NEX7 and A7r (and, perhaps, A7).

Thanks, I'm hoping to get a better handle on expectations...


I had hoped to do that when I did my test, but ran out of time with the camera, and the weather turned on me. It would have set a great benchmark for how these lenses perform on a 'native' camera vs. the a7.

I want to comment on the 50 Lux ASPH in general. I think the perception (at least if the one I held prior to actually owning and shooting with Leica glass on an M9) is that Leica's lenses are the art of technical perfection. Most, that I have used, are not. Maybe the new 21/3.4, 24/3.8, 50/2 APO, 75/2 APO, 90/2 APO are close, but the 50 Lux ASPH isn't. My growing impression, especially of the Summilux line, and perhaps also the Summicrons, is that they're about wide open optimization with a certain mix of compromises, along with fairly significant mid zone resolution/sharpness compromises at middle apertures. And by optimization, it's not necessarily about extreme resolution and contrast, rather, a balance of various influences to render a pleasing image.

The 50 Lux ASPH wide open, from my experience, is not the highest contrast lens out there. Especially at near minimum focusing distance, it gives up a fair amount to what seems like spherical aberration (though it doesn't seem to suffer from signifiant focus shifting). As a result, its sharpness wide open is not bitingly extreme. I think this is where that mysterious 'Leica glow' comes into play. Some say its an excuse to make Leica's lenses sound better than they technically are. And I guess the numbers will bear that out when comparing against something like the Otus. But for me, the look is one of balancing the impression of smoothness with sharpness, and works really well with people photos.

That said, on the M9, my experience is that the 50 Lux ASPH wide open will hold very good sharpness out to nearly the extreme edges of the image, though giving up a bit in the mid zones, as seen in its MTF. As the lens is stopped down, the mid zone quality drop gets more pronounced until easing at around f/5.6.

Having looked at my a7 results again, I think the wide open performance on that camera is pretty faithful to results on the M9, though I expect the M9 files would have looked a touch sharper due to no AA filter. The a7 images might also be slightly smeared at the edges vs. what I would expect to see on the M9.

As the 50 Lux ASPH is tested on new cameras with increasingly higher sensor resolution, I think we're going to see it suffer a fair amount compared to lenses such as the Otus and the new 55/1.8 that appear to have been designed with such upcoming sensors in mind. My feeling is the Lux ASPH is comfortable with the M9's 18MP and perhaps even 24MP (don't have any M240 experience to verify this), but 36MP is pushing it. Based on my experience with the lens on cameras such as the Ricoh GXR, NEX-5n and NEX-7, it definitely seems to lose ground against others, such as the ZM50/2, as pixel density increases. (Not to say the ZM50/2 is a 'better' lens than the Lux ASPH. Rather, it seems to retain better contrast at higher pixel densities. It does not hold sharpness across the frame at wider apertures in as flat a plane as the Lux ASPH does.)

I wouldn't be surprised to see a new round of Summilux upgrades from Leica in the next few years...

Lastly, I'm somewhat unsure my a7 results are optimal for the 50 Lux ASPH because the left half of the test images seem to look better than the right half. I have not noticed this on the M9 and without testing it to confirm, suggest there might be something introduced by the Novoflex adapter. Or my lens is slightly off yet still works well on my M9...



Oct 28, 2013 at 10:01 AM
uhoh7
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p.4 #6 · Sony A7r some full resolution test shots


kroyston wrote:
Don't be so quick to rule out the FE 35, I'm confident many here will really make that lens sing. Factor in an adaptor, it is not much bigger than many adapted options.


Sorry I was in RF mindset. I'm sure you are correct



Oct 28, 2013 at 10:29 AM
Olaf G
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p.4 #7 · Sony A7r some full resolution test shots


rscheffler wrote:
Having looked at my a7 results again, I think the wide open performance on that camera is pretty faithful to results on the M9, though I expect the M9 files would have looked a touch sharper due to no AA filter. The a7 images might also be slightly smeared at the edges vs. what I would expect to see on the M9.



+1

Once I tried my CV 15 on a friend's M9 and the result looked very much like your sample shots on the A7 with the M9 shots being slightly crispier.

So far I like the A7 shots with the CV 15 more than the ones with the A7r.
But there is also massive sample variation with the CV 15 and one can never know for sure whether it is a decentered lens or sensor smearing.

Thank you very much for doing these tests!



Oct 28, 2013 at 10:56 AM
Phillip Reeve
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p.4 #8 · Sony A7r some full resolution test shots


I just checked the Summilux shots again after a good nights sleep an either the lens is totally defective, the adapter wasn't attached correctly or I managed to misfocus 4 times.
It is really unsharp even in the center and in some iamges the corners are quite ook, even at f/1.4.




Oct 28, 2013 at 11:08 AM
naturephoto1
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p.4 #9 · Sony A7r some full resolution test shots


Phillip Reeve wrote:
I just checked the Summilux shots again after a good nights sleep an either the lens is totally defective, the adapter wasn't attached correctly or I managed to misfocus 4 times.
It is really unsharp even in the center and in some iamges the corners are quite ook, even at f/1.4.



Phillip,

I wonder if you focused incorrectly. I know that when I was at PhotoPlus in NYC on Thursday, we had to check with a Sony Tech Engineer to figure out how to get the camera to allow us to magnify with my MF Leica R 24mm f2.8 Elmarit when I was using the Novoflex Leica R to NEX adapter. When we used the Phigment Tech Leica M to NEX adapter which had the latest firmware, when I adjusted focus on my Minolta CLE MC 40mm f2 Rokkor-M lens the camera automatically put itself into magnify mode (as it is supposed to with the adapter). Unfortunately Paul needs to have more of these adapters made and they are/will not be CE certified.

Rich



Oct 28, 2013 at 11:25 AM
Phillip Reeve
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p.4 #10 · Sony A7r some full resolution test shots


naturephoto1 wrote:
Philip,

I wonder if you focused incorrectly. I know that when I was at PhotoPlus in NYC on Thursday, we had to check with a Sony Tech Engineer to figure out how to get the camera to allow us to magnify with my MF Leica 24mm f2.8 Elmarit when I was using the Novoflex Leica R to NEX adapter. When we used the Phigment Tech Leica M to NEX adapter which had the latest firmware, when I adjusted focus on my Minolta CLE MC 40mm f2 Rokkor-M lens the camera automatically put itself into magnify mode (as it is supposed to
...Show more
I figured out how to magnify on my own and all images were focused using magnified LV which is in my experience a really reliable method. Plus I repeated the test for the summilux because results were so lousy.
I sent Ron my samples and he thinks that the lens is defective. Looking at them now it is obvious for me that they are unplausible.



Oct 28, 2013 at 11:36 AM
naturephoto1
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p.4 #11 · Sony A7r some full resolution test shots


Phillip Reeve wrote:
I figured out how to magnify on my own and all images were focused using magnified LV which is in my experience a really reliable method. Plus I repeated the test for the summilux because results were so lousy.
I sent Ron my samples and he thinks that the lens is defective. Looking at them now it is obvious for me that they are unplausible.


Phillip,

OK. You may want to consider one of the Phigment Tech Leica M to NEX adapters after Paul gets them in stock. But, as mentioned, they are not CE certified. If need be I am sure that if need be, one of us in Canada or the US could send the unit to you to hopefully avoid any issue (due to no CE certification) of the unit getting through Customs.

Rich



Oct 28, 2013 at 11:40 AM
Phillip Reeve
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p.4 #12 · Sony A7r some full resolution test shots


naturephoto1 wrote:
OK. You may want to consider one of the Phigment Tech Leica M to NEX adapters after Paul gets them in stock. But, as mentioned, they are not CE certified. If need be I am sure that if need be, one of us in Canada or the US could send the unit to you to hopefully avoid any issue (due to no CE certification) of the unit getting through Customs.

Rich

Phigments adapter sounds like a great idea, the only problem is that i don't own any Leica lenses



Oct 28, 2013 at 11:46 AM
sebboh
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p.4 #13 · Sony A7r some full resolution test shots


rscheffler wrote:
Having looked at my a7 results again, I think the wide open performance on that camera is pretty faithful to results on the M9, though I expect the M9 files would have looked a touch sharper due to no AA filter. The a7 images might also be slightly smeared at the edges vs. what I would expect to see on the M9.


+1

that was my thought as well looking at your a7 results. might be nice if you have some time to post a similar foliage shot or brick wall shot on the m9 so people could have a better idea what to expect from that lens.




Oct 28, 2013 at 11:55 AM
zhangyue
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p.4 #14 · Sony A7r some full resolution test shots


A few comment about 50lux:

1. expecting it is sharp to extreme corner at f1.4 is unrealistic. This can be easily check from its MTF. It is sharper than most if not all of 50mm f1.4 lens at f1.4 out there. (note: f1.4) until Otus. (ToBeTest though)

2. The lens has reputation of faulty because of floating element and longer focal length(relatively to 24, 35mm) I have to send it to Leica NJ twice within a year of ownership. I am not exact sure how it works, but I feel if the lens miss focus on my M9 because of mis aligned focus guild, I can't guarantee it will perform as its spec suggested. But, I can understand leica choose this routine as for Rangefinder shooting, eliminate focus shift is extreme important which this lux has almost none.

3. For slow down shooting, from its MTF, It is a great lens but never exceptional great. Many existing 50mm lens can perform similar at f5.6 or f8. My 50rigid(a 50 years old design) out perform it at FC dip zone at f5.6 if I pixPP it. but I highly doubt it can't keep up with A7R. The difference is academic. At f5.6 or f8, based on what I got with M9, I can't think people will unsatisfied with it for landscape.

4. But, But, that is never the selling point of this 50lux, you could get this f5.6/f8 performance from many sub$300 prime lens, you pay the price for its f1.4 performance, (not extreme corner at f1.4, 90% of people have no use for that.)you pay the price for 'Leica' name , you pay the price for the best build quality. I agree with Ron, this is the tool optimized for f1.4 shooting. For reportage or artistic rendering, it definitely fulfill that need for its target group.

5. Shooting landscape after f5.6 with lens having FC like this, my experience is to achieve best cross frame sharpness, a careful LV focus needed. for example, focus at corner at the expense of center sharpness.... I never be able to do that with M9, but with Canon 6D, I frequently use this technique for LEica 21-35mm zoom.

50lux is still the best lens balance over speed, size, build and performance. Even with 50AA, 50Noct and Otus introduced. well, maybe we can include this Zeiss FE55 to above list....(Though I wonder how long the plastic AF can last within spec.this alone make $2800ish ASPH price a bargain)



Oct 28, 2013 at 11:58 AM
uhoh7
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p.4 #15 · Sony A7r some full resolution test shots


A good question:

Does Focus peaking on the A7r require magnification?



Oct 28, 2013 at 01:17 PM
Phillip Reeve
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p.4 #16 · Sony A7r some full resolution test shots


uhoh7 wrote:
A good question:

Does Focus peaking on the A7r require magnification?

I can't remember, sorry.



Oct 28, 2013 at 01:25 PM
Planetwide
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p.4 #17 · Sony A7r some full resolution test shots


The 50 Lux Asph is a great lens. It performs without any issues on my M at 24mp. Discussing sharpness or lack thereof on a lens as good as the 'lux, is really a discussion about the adapter. Novoflex are good, but they are not exact. So far, I have found only Kindai and Rayqual are accurate enough without shimming.

Floating element lenses are particularly vulnerable to poor performance, when the adapter is out. Since most adapters are made deliberately short, this should be no surprise. I have never understood putting a lens as expensive as a lux on a $20 chinese adapter...

36mp is going to change lens perceptions dramatically. Many lenses are going to be left behind, and it is going to take Otus like performance to resolve the sensor. As for the Zeiss 55/1.8, initially it seems quite good, but then again we don't know how much background processing is going on in the NEX do we. That said, I am glad that Sony/Zeiss have released a lens optimized for the A7 & A7r.

IMHO.



Oct 28, 2013 at 01:32 PM
rafa1981
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p.4 #18 · Sony A7r some full resolution test shots


It looks like there is some problem with the FD adapter. I really hope that it isn't because of the Nex E bayonet

The Canon FD 35 f2 is showing extreme vignetting of the far edges at all apertures, which is not characteristic of this lens. Something is blocking the image circle.




Oct 28, 2013 at 01:55 PM
Phillip Reeve
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p.4 #19 · Sony A7r some full resolution test shots


rafa1981 wrote:
It looks like there is some problem with the FD adapter. I really hope that it isn't because of the Nex E bayonet

The Canon FD 35 f2 is showing extreme vignetting of the far edges at all apertures, which is not characteristic of this lens. Something is blocking the image circle.

I used a Lens Hood which works fine on APS-C but is too narrow on FF.



Oct 28, 2013 at 01:59 PM
Jon Tainton
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p.4 #20 · Sony A7r some full resolution test shots


Thanks, Phillip, for taking the time to do the testing and making the files available.

Andrew Gough wrote:
36mp is going to change lens perceptions dramatically. Many lenses are going to be left behind, and it is going to take Otus like performance to resolve the sensor. As for the Zeiss 55/1.8, initially it seems quite good, but then again we don't know how much background processing is going on in the NEX do we. That said, I am glad that Sony/Zeiss have released a lens optimized for the A7 & A7r.

IMHO.


+1

Additional to the engineering tolerances on the adapter, there are also the tolerances on the camera sensor alignment, camera mount alignment, lens mount and lens element alignments, that all need to 'sing from the same song sheet' for optimal IQ.



Oct 28, 2013 at 02:02 PM
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