p.68 #1 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
miklar wrote:
A year ago I made the mistake of buying the 24-70mm f2.8 ZA, it works well with cropped sensors and the FS100 video camera, as well the NEX-6.
However, my concern being how it will perform with the a7R and LAEA4 adapter. Vignetting can be dealt with, but edge resolving may be an issue.
At any rate, it won't be long now and it'll prove itself or find another owner.
Cheers
Michael
You never quite explain why buying it was a "mistake". I use it on an A900 and it's terrific, better than any Canon, Nikon, or Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 I've owned (although I've never owned the Canon v2).
p.68 #2 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
ebrandon wrote:
You never quite explain why buying it was a "mistake". I use it on an A900 and it's terrific, better than any Canon, Nikon, or Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 I've owned (although I've never owned the Canon v2).
Please tell me more on how it's working out for you, i.e. corner resolution with full frame sensors?
My work, of late, has been gallery shoots and the equipment in use is Nikon D3x including a plethora of Nikkor glass. The D800E was on the short list when Sony announced the A7R. It has almost everything to meet my requirements. Small, lightweight, good video performance and lens adaptability.
After some careful considerations (but not too long) I could see myself carrying less than half the weight around and still provide the same (or better) quality to the client.
Having one suitable Alpha lens - Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 2,8/24-70 ZA, I felt it has finally found its home (it is overkill for the other equipment it's being used on). So, I place my order for the A7R plus two lenses.
Unfortunately after reading several reviews about this lens it appears to fall short for the work I've planned for it.
If it turns out to be good, I will be a very happy individual
The alpha lens lineup is not huge and not cheap, and that must a factor of the relatively few FF sold.
I'd think by this time next year we would have some sort of fast zoom options, big opportunity for a set of three 2.8s from 16 up to 200.
The little A7 could be an event workhorse with such a set, but after sundown I'm not sure f/4 lenses will make it--event though they are so nice to travel with.
p.68 #4 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Fast zooms - I guess I am taking a contrarian's delight in the a7r, so capable on many fronts, being unsuitable for many traditional photographers. I guess if anyone could and would do fast zooms, Sigma is that someone. Sony appear to be more interested in quality.
We hear a lot about Sony releasing cameras with 'not enough lenses' and similar complaints; these a7 series come with two fine CZ primes in the most used FLs plus two CZ zooms - one wide, one mid FL - in first half 2014, plus two G zooms and a 'fast' CZ prime lens. So seven lenses in the first six months or so. Of course users can adapt the 6-7 ZAs or thousands of other lenses mounted on adapters - well within the reach of anyone with wit enough to buy one and fit it to a mount, many even do IS and AF. Not good enough though, is it?
Ever curious, I delved back into the vault to see what Canon did in the first year of release of the EOS line for lenses, bearing in mind that (i) they already had a great FD lineup so plenty of market intelligence and design nous; (ii) had no urgency from the market, and (iii) their new mount took no other lenses. So very different to Sony's FE situation.
Here is what they did:
1 long tele (300/2.8), 2 tele-zooms (100-300), a fisheye, a macro, 5 slow (and no doubt horrible) zooms and 4 primes, only one of which sounds maybe enticing:
28/2/8; 50/1.8; 85/1.2; and 135/2.8
Very different world of lenses back then. Very different expectations too.
p.68 #5 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Steve Spencer wrote:
I should probably shut up, because I am not sure anyone will listen to what I have to say anymore, but IMO the ZA 24-70 has much better MTF at least at 24mm (even though it is theoretical and again in my view a gross overestimation of performance). At 70mm they are closer and the FE probably has a slight edge. If you look at the ZA at f/8 you will see that there are very high sagittal lines at 10, 20, and 40 mm/lp all the way across the field. In comparing sagittal lines the ZA is only a bit better than the FE, partly because both are bumping up again the ceiling in possible performance (and again as these are theoretical values they are unrealistically high, much higher than any lens has every shown in actual measurements) so there is little room to show differences. Looking at tang lines you see the ZA out performing the FE by quite a lot especially in the outer frame. The ZA only drops to 40% out in the corners (which if it were a real measurement would be quite good), but the FE drops from 12mm on to below 50% and is at 10% in the corner. From my perspective that suggests probable corner problems for the FE that are not going to be nearly as a big of an issue with the ZA. So, I am glad people are optimistic, but the Sony/Zeiss theoretical MTFs suggest that at 24mm the ZA ought to be better, and the FE will probably struggle, and although I definitely believe theoretical MTFs should be taken with a huge grain of salt we can be quite certain that they represent the best possible performance and measured MTFs will be considerably worse....Show more →
As for me I'm enjoying the opinions being shared and like you I see MTFs, especially the theoretical ones, maybe a little more weighted in marketting as opposed to objectively measuring a production line lens. Kind of like reading car manufacturers gas milage claims and then reading the actuals done by real world driving road tests. It sure keeps copy variances out of the "picture".
I also was wondering about the near perfect Sagittal lines with the strongly diverging meridional lines but that may be more of a Zeiss Tessar design signature. At least many of their Tessar lens have similar characteristics on their MTFs.
The one thing that is bothering me is the lack of high resolution samples - even though Sony had posted a couple of lower rez samples with their original A7/A7r unveiling - the forest scene has okay corners at f/11 but the pic of roses packed in boxes at f/5.6 had its top left corner somewhat fuzzy. Why only a couple of pics a month after announcement?
So as I said earlier I will take a wait and see position on this. There are many more factors to consider than just a MTF chart! So I still have my lens on pre-order - but I would really like to know what Zeiss will be offering for MF. In the end it may just be my Leica 35-70 R f/4 with a couple of UWA primes - and my CY-Z 100-300, the Rokkar 58 1.2, CYZ 50 1.7 and the Voigtlander APO Lanthar 180.
p.68 #6 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
miklar wrote:
Please tell me more on how it's working out for you, i.e. corner resolution with full frame sensors?
My work, of late, has been gallery shoots and the equipment in use is Nikon D3x including a plethora of Nikkor glass. The D800E was on the short list when Sony announced the A7R. It has almost everything to meet my requirements. Small, lightweight, good video performance and lens adaptability.
After some careful considerations (but not too long) I could see myself carrying less than half the weight around and still provide the same (or better) quality to the client.
Having one suitable Alpha lens - Carl Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 2,8/24-70 ZA, I felt it has finally found its home (it is overkill for the other equipment it's being used on). So, I place my order for the A7R plus two lenses.
Unfortunately after reading several reviews about this lens it appears to fall short for the work I've planned for it.
If it turns out to be good, I will be a very happy individual ...Show more →
Here's a recent picture you can download & check out from the 24-70mm f2.8 on A900. No great artistic merit, but does have content in the corners. What do you think?
p.68 #7 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
My dealer just told me that my A7r shipped this morning and will be here sometime tomorrow. I didnt order any lenses with it, but I did order the Metbones EOS to E mount III adapter which should arrive tomorrow or Sunday.
I will be testing the camera with the 17mm and 24mm TSE lenses as well as six different Zeiss ZE lenses from 21mm to 135mm. I don't have any autofocus Canon glass, so I wont be able to test any AF functions out. I will mostly be using this on a tripod so AF is meaningless to me anyway.
p.68 #8 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
ebrandon wrote:
Here's a recent picture you can download & check out from the 24-70mm f2.8 on A900. No great artistic merit, but does have content in the corners. What do you think?
p.68 #9 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
dbehrens wrote:
The one thing that is bothering me is the lack of high resolution samples - even though Sony had posted a couple of lower rez samples with their original A7/A7r unveiling - the forest scene has okay corners at f/11 but the pic of roses packed in boxes at f/5.6 had its top left corner somewhat fuzzy. Why only a couple of pics a month after announcement?
Dave
unfortunately, while that forest scene shot does look pretty sharp at full resolution, it was actually taken with the ZA 24/2 according to sony. i have yet to see a landscape type shot actually taken with zeiss FE 24-70/4.
the rose packed boxes shot is pretty much useless as well because the shot is not taken parallel to the boxes – even if the corners are super sharp they'll still be out of focus.
p.68 #10 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Here's a recent picture you can download & check out from the 24-70mm f2.8 on A900. No great artistic merit, but does have content in the corners. What do you think?
p.68 #11 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
dpreview just updated their preview with an ongoing impression of both cameras after a few weeks with the cameras. Most interesting comment made was how the A7r focuses noticeably better in low light.
p.68 #12 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Here's a recent picture you can download & check out from the 24-70mm f2.8 on A900. No great artistic merit, but does have content in the corners. What do you think?
Ah, got it, thank you.
Difficult to assess as there is little detail at the top, but looks good on the bottom left with possible slight loss of detail on the bottom right corner.
That said, it'll do.
Thank you again, you made my day
Cheers
p.68 #13 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
snapsy, since when did so-called experienced camera users become so easily disturbed by just about anything, like who cares what some character thinks about dials and two level Fn menus and the impression of hard edges?...how hard is it to check the EC and is that really his big moan...easy to see why their traffic is down. methinks a sad case of misplaced priorities.
p.68 #14 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
philip_pj wrote:
snapsy, since when did so-called experienced camera users become so easily disturbed by just about anything, like who cares what some character thinks about dials and two level Fn menus and the impression of hard edges?...how hard is it to check the EC and is that really his big moan...easy to see why their traffic is down. methinks a sad case of misplaced priorities.
Cameras are so good these days it's hard to find much fault with any model outside of ergonomic nitpicks.
p.68 #15 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
philip_pj wrote:
snapsy, since when did so-called experienced camera users become so easily disturbed by just about anything, like who cares what some character thinks about dials and two level Fn menus and the impression of hard edges?...how hard is it to check the EC and is that really his big moan...easy to see why their traffic is down. methinks a sad case of misplaced priorities.
the guy cannot believe he has to set up the camera to his taste. To be fair, I suppose alot of others will also be surprised.
This is the site that only grudgingly gave the original Nex-5 a "silver". It's pretty clear the reviewer has spent little or no time with the nex.
If Sony had been a little smarter, they would have had some private coaches to help these guys through the first half hour--and perhaps had the custom stuff off default.
Huff, who has shot a ton with nex, took to it like a duck to water.
Can you imagine going to an event like that to see this camera, with no alt glass in your pocket?
p.68 #16 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
nandadevieast wrote:
What do you guys think about these 2 alpha mount lenses: ZA 135/1.8 and ZA 24/2
On A7r they might be too big perhaps, especially the 135/1.8, though they will phase detect on it so thats great.
I've a long time fan of the 21ZE, 50MPZE and 100MPZE (and other zeiss lenses as well). Comparatively, I think the 24/2 is probably one of the better 24mm lenses I've used, but not as spectacular as the 21ze.
The 135 is great, but not as great as the 100mpze.
If you buy an A7 you might as well just adapt ZE lenses (because you can). But if you need autofocus you have no choice, in which case those ZA lenses are pretty good, but you'd be better off buying an A99 if you want to use those ZA lenses.
Size wise, I think the 135 is a bit big and heavy.. The 24 is a little large then a can of coke, and could work.
Alternatively, if you wanted small lenses, you could do 85/2 ZM (if you could find one), but I think the 21ZM would probably cause issues with the sensor.
p.68 #17 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
lostinjapan wrote:
My dealer just told me that my A7r shipped this morning and will be here sometime tomorrow. I didnt order any lenses with it, but I did order the Metbones EOS to E mount III adapter which should arrive tomorrow or Sunday.
I will be testing the camera with the 17mm and 24mm TSE lenses as well as six different Zeiss ZE lenses from 21mm to 135mm. I don't have any autofocus Canon glass, so I wont be able to test any AF functions out. I will mostly be using this on a tripod so AF is meaningless to me anyway.
I have tried two different ZE 21mm on my Metabones III (on NEX 5N) and neither will make infinity. Please report as to whether yours does. Thanks so much!
As for the quirk of the web browser -- If you just click on the link you get to a gallery of all the pictures I've ever posted to any web forum. To see the 24-70mm you have to copy and paste the entire line (not just the clickable part) into your browser's address bar.
the guy cannot believe he has to set up the camera to his taste. To be fair, I suppose alot of others will also be surprised.