p.7 #1 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Jman13 wrote:
Exactly, Douglas. The m4/3 system has some lenses that aren't that small. And they have a ton of lenses that are EXTREMELY small. A FF system will never be able to do that, and that's OK. A m4/3 system will never be able to do all the things that a FF system can do.
I'm just really hoping we see some middle ground on the native lenses (so, fast enough to be advantageous over a smaller format but slow enough to be pretty small). It could be a truly killer system at that point. It's already a killer camera for manual focus lenses....Show more →
Yeah, that's partly why the compromise I made is with the interchangeable lens option. The RX1 allows a small lens that is equivalently a little faster than f1.4 on aps-c, and interchangeability wouldn't allow that with such great performance. It's all about making compromises one is comfortable with.
p.7 #4 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
h00ligan wrote:
I missed the AF canon lense aspect of this body. Via adaptor I assume. So.....slow?
Yep, slow. Tho with on sensor AF, it might be improved. It isnt exactly out of question to make SLT adapter with AF for Canon EF. That could actually make AF rather fast..
p.7 #5 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Any talk of one product line "killing" an entire format is absurd. The costs of sensor fabrication, glass shaping, and precision assembly will always be steeper than the gain in format dimensions. "Killing" requires disruption, not progression, like how phones have affected budget-driven photography. These cameras are definitely only progressive.
The A7R appears to be a home run product for people who want to upgrade their NEX cameras. The A7 is a curious thought, and it'll be interesting to see how it compares to the R in terms of tonal sensitivity--it could be amazing, or it could just be a lower cost alternative. Either way, at least for the American market, both serve as test balloons to see what it might take to upset the "bigger, better, faster" mentality that drives the bulk of high-end purchases.
As far as lenses go, I hope that at least the Zeiss choices are priced to reflect designs for ever increasing resolution needs. From the samples I've seen, I'd venture that they might even be priced lower than competitive equivalents, insofar as they exist: I'm thinking Pentax DA Limited is the closest, but they're a rung lower and a generation behind. The 35/2.8 and 55/1.8 will probably be surpassing on NEX bodies if not also on the FE bodies.
p.7 #6 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Jabberwockt wrote:
I think canon and nikon can still hold on. They just need to miniaturize. Many film slr were small, I don't understand why after all these years they've still not reduce the size of dslrs.
Because that's not what everyone wants. I have to push EM-5 buttons with a fingernail and even my D700's grip is a big small for my hands (wish I could've afforded a D3). But there are also "people" (actually elves, I think) who find the EM-5 big and bulky. The solution is modularity, not miniaturization: one sensor/innards, multiple body/frame options.
p.7 #7 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
I am so excited about this and might pre-order one soon, however, I don't get the DSLR/rangefinder/RX1/etc... killer thing that many are talking about. Maybe a "DSLR killer" for your needs but not nearly for many others.
I see the niche users for this being landscape/travel and maybe street photographers.
As for the RX1, if this is going to be an RX1 killer then we wouldn't expect the X100s to be selling well, which is not true The RX1 still has a size advantage and a lens to match.
p.7 #8 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
To some of you, it seems to come as a surprise that a FF E-mount lens might be as big as it's SLR counterpart
What else could be expected ?. Given a sensor size, a focal length and aperture, it doesn't matter if the camera is SLR or mirrorless, big or small, the lens must obey the laws of physics.
Apart from wideangles, where it's possible to use non-retrofocus designs, any lens for E-mount will be around 25-30 mm. longer than the corresponding models of the different SLR mounts, to make up for the shorter registry distance. The new FE 55/1.8 seems very long, but if you add to a 55mm SLR lens an adapter of 25-30mm. it becomes as long as that Zeiss FE 55/1.8.
p.7 #10 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Jman13 wrote:
....Though, to be honest, looking at the 'lens roadmap', I'm somewhat concerned about lenses for this thing. Based on the 35/2.8 and 55/1.8 pricing, the good lenses are likely to be crazy expensive, and if the leaked image of the potential Zeiss 85/1.8 is true, that thing is also ridiculously big for an 85/1.8. I think I'd be OK using this as an adapted lens machine with the great focus peaking and big clear EVF, with only probably the Zeiss 24-70/4 as a native lens (eventually), but I also don't want to buy in, use it for three months and realize it was dumb to get and sell it. ...Show more →
Well, that's Sony's lens roadmap. Don't discount Sigma, who has offered some very good and very cheap options for the Nex. They will be all over this, as will others, now that the E-mount has risen to such prominence.
p.7 #11 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Lee Saxon wrote:
Because that's not what everyone wants. I have to push EM-5 buttons with a fingernail and even my D700's grip is a big small for my hands (wish I could've afforded a D3). But there are also "people" (actually elves, I think) who find the EM-5 big and bulky. The solution is modularity, not miniaturization: one sensor/innards, multiple body/frame options.
I have sized 9.5-10 hands, and I find the d700-grip to be quite large, and I find the nex-7 quite ergonomic. I think it is more a question of habits and taste.
p.7 #13 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Jman13 wrote:
Exactly, Douglas. The m4/3 system has some lenses that aren't that small. And they have a ton of lenses that are EXTREMELY small. A FF system will never be able to do that, and that's OK. A m4/3 system will never be able to do all the things that a FF system can do.
I'm just really hoping we see some middle ground on the native lenses (so, fast enough to be advantageous over a smaller format but slow enough to be pretty small). It could be a truly killer system at that point. It's already a killer camera for manual focus lenses....Show more →
The difference in lens size (and as a whole package) between the m4/3 and FF NEX is not that great, definitely no where near "gigantic." And when you compared the size between the two without taking into account of equivalent DOF, it will just skew the result over to m4/3. You said that the Sony 70-200 is 2.3x heavier than the Pana 35-100. But what if the Pana is f/2 or the Sony is f/5.6. In my opinion, the difference in weight and size would not be as drastic as you make it out to be.
You definitely downplay a lot of the FF benefits by saying you don't need such features (high MP, shallower DOF, better DR, tonality, etc.), and I understand that since I do have different needs than you; I would never pick m43 since I don't shoot extreme long telephoto and I need all the MP, DR, DOF controls I can have. But you made your argument in such a way that if anyone wants to go only with native lenses route for a mirrorless system, m4/3 is drastically superior since Sony lenses are gigantic for their capabilities. Looking at Steve Spencer's analysis, I would say FF is definitely bigger, but it's not by much and certainly within the reason of being one or two stops shallower DOF. And I think that's why Steve thinks your comparison is not fair. In the end, I think they're all on equal ground in term of size and what they offer.
p.7 #14 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
I'm not sure why people are saying these cameras are competitively priced. Yeah, A7 is cheaper than D610 and A7r is cheaper than D800, but those cameras have insanely complex mirror assemblies and OVF prisms and are largely hand assembled. I bet Sony makes literally double on an A7 what Nikon does on a D610.
p.7 #15 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
We all know the cameras and camera systems that were available before this announcement are great and good enough for most people's needs and if someone thinks another system (DSLR or m4/3, for example) is better for their particular needs, we get that. But clearly the A7/A7R is a ground breaking product that is for sure the best available camera for those whose needs it suits.
p.7 #16 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Lee Saxon wrote:
I'm not sure why people are saying these cameras are competitively priced. Yeah, A7 is cheaper than D610 and A7r is cheaper than D800, but those cameras have insanely complex mirror assemblies and OVF prisms and are largely hand assembled. I bet Sony makes literally double on an A7 what Nikon does on a D610.
And personally, I think they deserve to make double on an A7 what Nikon does on a D610.
p.7 #17 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Whats a size 9.5-10 hand..I'm not being funny, I've genuinely never thought of hand sizing. Im tall. i don't know how id classify my hand size. Is that a glove measurement?n sorry. Its a stupid question. We dint wear gloves in az and in ny i just bought ones that fit.
I found the nex 5 and 6 with heavier lenses uncomfortable and the grip too close to the metabones adaptor to focus comfortably.
I use a flipbac grip for the rx100 and would actually prefer something like that on the rx1 to add grip without going huge.
Anyway. Sorry. Back to hand size measurement.
ulrikft2 wrote:
I have sized 9.5-10 hands, and I find the d700-grip to be quite large, and I find the nex-7 quite ergonomic. I think it is more a question of habits and taste.
p.7 #18 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
I bit the bullet and Pre-ordered the A7r camera from B&H. I have never pre-ordered a camera in the past. I will handle the camera next week at PhotoPlus and decide if I want to keep my Pre-order or wait for a more advanced camera to come from Sony. Along with the camera I ordered 3 extra batteries, AC charger, and Sony screen protector.
I will be bringing to the table my full arsenal of Leica R lenses (16) to work with the camera along with my Minolta CLE MC 40mm f2 Rokkor-M lens (a tiny lens). I have been waiting since the Leica phased on the R system in 2009 for a FF digital home for my R lenses and in the meantime I have used the Lumix G1 and most recently my Fujifilm X-E1 which will become my 2nd camera.
I will wait for the full reviews and for the reports of the performance of the WA Leica M lenses with the camera. If it is determined that the WA M lenses perform well with the camera, and if I can afford it I will try to purchase the M lenses probably in the 21 and 28mm focal lengths.
I don't know which if any of the Sony lenses that I may add to the system, but that will be in the future (if at all)>
p.7 #19 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
h00ligan wrote:
They are doing what fuji did. It will come..,theyre map is nearly identical to fuji..well their strategy, just with less good native lenses and larger sizes.
I might be missing something, but this doesn't seem very similar to fuji to me. Fuji launched the X mount with three useful primes, a wide pancake, a fast normal, and a telephoto macro.
Sony comes with a slow 35mm and a large looking 55mm and a bunch of zooms. I bet there will be three iterations of a Sony super zoom for this camera by the end of 2015
This would certainly be a nice platform for adapted lenses. But that isn't what I'm looking for. People are getting way too worked up here. This product might dampen enthusiasm for higher end m4/3, but the rest of the mirrorless market is still wide open to cheaper and smaller competitors. If you want to use native lenses, what does A7 really get you over a Fuji?
Interesting product overall. But I think I'll wait a year or two and see what shakes out.
p.7 #20 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
naturephoto1 wrote:
I bit the bullet and Pre-ordered the A7r camera from B&H. I have never pre-ordered a camera in the past. I will handle the camera next week at PhotoPlus and decide if I want to keep my Pre-order or wait for a more advanced camera to come from Sony. Along with the camera I ordered 3 extra batteries, AC charger, and Sony screen protector.
I will be bringing to the table my full arsenal of Leica R lenses (16) to work with the camera along with my Minolta CLE MC 40mm f2 Rokkor-M lens (a tiny lens). I have been waiting since the Leica phased on the R system in 2009 for a FF digital home for my R lenses and in the meantime I have used the Lumix G1 and most recently my Fujifilm X-E1 which will become my 2nd camera.
I will wait for the full reviews and for the reports of the performance of the WA Leica M lenses with the camera. If it is determined that the WA M lenses perform well with the camera, and if I can afford it I will try to purchase the M lenses probably in the 21 and 28mm focal lengths.
I don't know which if any of the Sony lenses that I may add to the system, but that will be in the future (if at all)>
I would be very much interested in seeing your Leica R result on the 7R. Which brand of the adapter you're going to get? I really want to see the left and right symmetry issue.
