p.17 #1 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
denoir wrote:
I was really looking forward to getting a FF Nex as a backup/complement for my M9...but I must say that I'm somewhat disappointed. Don't take me wrong - it's great that Sony came up with these cameras and at a reasonable price point. I'm sure the image quality will be very good.
However I'm disappointed by the form factor. We're entering DSLR territory here. A NEX-5 sized camera would be awesome. The A7 form factor with something that looks like a fake pentaprism... not so much. The M9/M240 Leicas are IMO a bit too big - and the A7s are even bigger.
I can definitely see it as a replacement for a Canonikon DSLR. Unfortunately it won't for me. I have a Canon 5DII that I use for video and it shoots RAW video.. something the A7 does not... It would have been wonderful if it did - then I could get rid of all my DSLR lenses and gear.. but it doesn't.
I'm sure that the A7:s will be what many people here have been looking for and that's great - I'm looking forward to seeing the photos Unfortunately it doesn't look like it will work for me - something that I had hoped ...Show more →
I don't mind the size, and prefer it is not any smaller. I agree with its overall design: looks like fake photoshopped work. From Sina Blog, I heard A7 introduced earlier than expected as Sony want grab the market ASAP, so no time on decent industry design, the whole thing looks like a hybrid from EM5, NEX7 and RX1. The hand handle especially looks cheap.
Raw Video never be a concern to me and most of the people here I guess, I can't believe you are not liking it, 36M AA free with 14 stop DR..... Did you see that little red 'r' there
p.17 #2 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
douglasf13 wrote:
I'm not sure I'd call the A7 bigger than the m240. Without the EVF hump on top, it would be much smaller, but I don't think the EVF makes the camera carry bigger than the m240. Plus, the A7 is 200 grams lighter.
Possibly, it depends on which dimensions are important. The M form factor is more even across all dimensions making it easier to pack...
However, what I meant was that for me to be a viable companion camera/backup for an M9 a FF NEX would have to be significantly smaller than an M (such as a NEX-5 form factor), which this is not. So it doesn't really work for me.
For somebody looking for an M alternative, I'm sure it's great.. but that's not what I'm looking for.
p.17 #4 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Beni wrote:
In a DSLR under the mirror is a specific and large AF sensor which gets about half (?) the light through the mirror for use specifically for finding focus. With a pro camera like a canon 1 series that AF sensor has an entire processor dedicated to it. On a mirrorless it's done with software off the imaging sensor.thanks
p.17 #5 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
zhangyue wrote:
I don't mind the size, and prefer it is not any smaller. I agree with its overall design: looks like fake photoshopped work. From Sina Blog, I heard A7 introduced earlier than expected as Sony want grab the market ASAP, so no time on decent industry design, the whole thing looks like a hybrid from EM5, NEX7 and RX1. The hand handle especially looks cheap.
Actually, I've stopped expecting decent industrial design from any camera manufacturer.. I've been mostly disappointed with Sony, but that's because I thought they were on to something and failed to deliver ( a truly digital digital camera). However, I can't say that I've seen any very good industrial design lately. IMO Leica is one of the worst offenders as they once upon a time did have really good design. Oh well..
Raw Video never be a concern to me and most of the people here I guess, I can't believe you are not liking it, 36M AA free with 14 stop DR..... Did you see that little red 'r' there
Increased dynamic range is of course fine The other things are not really for me, but great features for those that need it, I'm sure
zhangyue wrote:
How about M240?
Nope I prefer the output from the M9 and I'm not thrilled with the IMO poor LV implementation and added bulk/weight. I'm probably going to wait for the next iteration Or get an A7 No but seriously, for the amount of photography I'm doing right now, the M9 is more than enough. I have a NEX-5R as a backup camera (in theory anyway) when I travel, and I had hoped to change it to a FF NEX - something that I probably won't be doing unless it has a much smaller form factor...
To be honest, right now I often don't even bring along the M9 when travelling because of the bulk.. so my next camera purchase is more likely to be an RX1 or something similar...
p.17 #7 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
denoir wrote:
Actually, I've stopped expecting decent industrial design from any camera manufacturer.. I've been mostly disappointed with Sony, but that's because I thought they were on to something and failed to deliver ( a truly digital digital camera). However, I can't say that I've seen any very good industrial design lately. IMO Leica is one of the worst offenders as they once upon a time did have really good design. Oh well..
+1000 to that.
i agree about the A7(r) being bigger than i'd like too. i would have much preferred a more NEX-7 like evf placement. i think it'll still be easier for me to carry than an m9 though, and i'm sure i'll prefer shooting it due to my distaste for rangefinder composing.
p.17 #8 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Vern Dewit wrote:
I like your reasoned approach to this. I am also a backpacking / climbing / skiing photographer and have been chasing the holy grail of cameras for a decade already - everything is either too big / heavy or too compromised on IQ. I tried using the Canon 6D with a 24-70 f/4 but even that was way too bulky / heavy for me.
This past summer / fall I used a Sony RX1 and RX100II which worked very well, but the RX100II compromises too much on the IQ front.
I think for your specific set of lens requirements, you make a reasonable argument - although from a bulk perspective the A7 system will be much smaller, physically, which makes carrying it around much easier. You also have to wonder if the 36mp and 24-70 Zeiss will outperform the Canon.
And don't forget - the A7 can be made much smaller / lighter with some primes so there's always that option too. For me the new system is a total no-brainer, but I won't be getting rid of either my RX1 or RX100II simply because nothing can touch that combo for weight / size / IQ right now. Hopefully Sony does a better job of releasing lenses for the FE system than they did for NEX or we'll be waiting years to get anything other than the launch lenses... ...Show more →
Yeah, if I could get down to a couple of primes and skip the 70-200, I would definitely jump into this. I love having the zoom with me when I see wildlife and once you get into the 200mm range, it doesn't appear there is a good way to keep the size/weight down as the front element can only be so small. I'll definitely keep reading reviews and see how things shake out with this camera as well as Canon's next offerings (whenever that will come).
p.17 #9 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Man, Sony's JPEGs are terrible. What's the hyper compression on everything? Looks awful. I'm sure the RAW files are spectacular, but we'll have to wait on those a bit.
For example, here are two shots from Photographyblog's samples. One is the A7, the other is, well, the Panasonic GM1. Both at ISO 800. Yes, I know the lighting int he Panasonic shot is better, but just look at the horrid JPEG softness on the A7 shot...I'm sure it's not the sensor or the lens, but just bad JPEGs, but why are they so bad? I've seen lots of blotchiness and smeared detail in the sample JPEGs so far, especially at higher than ISO 400. It's not like Panasonic is known for its great JPEG engine, but it looks better here.
EDIT: Apparently PB blocks direct links to images, so here are links to the sample image archives. But take a look at the ISO 800 portraits for each. And heck, take a look at all the ISO samples....the Sony's JPEG engine is just terrible at higher ISO (and only 'ok' at low ISO0.
p.17 #11 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
sebboh wrote:
+1000 to that.
i agree about the A7(r) being bigger than i'd like too. i would have much preferred a more NEX-7 like evf placement. i think it'll still be easier for me to carry than an m9 though, and i'm sure i'll prefer shooting it due to my distaste for rangefinder composing.
I wish it were smaller too, but if that hump truly is the price for significantly improved viewfinder optics, then I'm okay with it.
p.17 #12 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
douglasf13 wrote:
Sony jpegs have long been know for being a pixel peeper's nightmare. The raws will be fine.
I knew they weren't as good as Olympus or Fuji in the JPEG game, but I didn't know they were THAT bad. I generally avoid shooting JPEG anyway, but every once in a while I'll shoot JPEG on my X-E1 because they have REALLY good JPEG output. Sony's, I'd avoid ever using...they're terrible.
I'm excited to see the RAW images, which I'm sure will be awesome, but still...they need to start making those available soon before the average person starts looking at them.
p.17 #13 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Update on preorder shipping dates:
Sony A7R - Nov. 27th
Sony A7 - Nov. 27th
Sony Sonnar T* FE 35mm f/2.8 ZA Lens - Dec 4th
Sony Sonnar T* FE 55mm f/1.8 ZA Lens - Dec 18th
Sony Vario-Tessar T* FE 24-70mm f/4 ZA OSS Lens - Jan 2014
p.17 #14 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Thanks Fred.
That's terrible planning by Sony. I know most people here are using adapted lenses (and if I get one, that'll by my primary use), but making the camera available a week before any lenses are available, and having only one or two lenses available in the first month is not good.
"Here's your camera! Too bad there's nothing to mount on it!"
p.17 #15 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Can't wait to see this thing with a Voigtlander Nokton 35/1.4 or 40/1.4 mounted and see how compact it gets. This should be a nice, inexpensive, 1.4, MF, FF street rig combo
If anyone gets the chance to do so and has either of those lenses, please do share pics
p.17 #16 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Fred Miranda wrote:
Update on preorder shipping dates:
Sony A7R - Nov. 27th
Sony A7 - Nov. 27th
Sony Sonnar T* FE 35mm f/2.8 ZA Lens - Dec 4th
Sony Sonnar T* FE 55mm f/1.8 ZA Lens - Dec 18th
Sony Vario-Tessar T* FE 24-70mm f/4 ZA OSS Lens - Jan 2014
Thanks Fred. What's the source for these revised dates?
p.17 #17 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Jman13 wrote:
Thanks Fred.
That's terrible planning by Sony. I know most people here are using adapted lenses (and if I get one, that'll by my primary use), but making the camera available a week before any lenses are available, and having only one or two lenses available in the first month is not good.
"Here's your camera! Too bad there's nothing to mount on it!"
seems ok to me. i'd rather they do that hold the cameras back because the lenses aren't ready.
edit: though if they also made the camera a little better looking during that time i'd be ok with it.
p.17 #18 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Edgar M wrote:
Can't wait to see this thing with a Voigtlander Nokton 35/1.4 or 40/1.4 mounted and see how compact it gets. This should be a nice, inexpensive, 1.4, MF, FF street rig combo
If anyone gets the chance to do so and has either of those lenses, please do share pics
I have the 40/1.4 and it's tiny on my 5N so I imagine it will look even smaller on an A7(r).
p.17 #19 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
sebboh wrote:
seems ok to me. i'd rather they do that hold the cameras back because the lenses aren't ready.
edit: though if they also made the camera a little better looking during that time i'd be ok with it.
Ha! Yeah, this camera still looks a little off to me. Even though they're nearly identical, I actually think that ridiculous Hasselblad Solar looks a bit better, which is a first for their Sony conversions.
p.17 #20 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
douglasf13 wrote:
Ha! Yeah, this camera still looks a little off to me. Even though they're nearly identical, I actually think that ridiculous Hasselblad Solar looks a bit better, which is a first for their Sony conversions.
Unfortunately it doesn't look like it will work for me - something that I had hoped 
No but seriously, for the amount of photography I'm doing right now, the M9 is more than enough. I have a NEX-5R as a backup camera (in theory anyway) when I travel, and I had hoped to change it to a FF NEX - something that I probably won't be doing unless it has a much smaller form factor... 
