p.136 #1 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
ok! It means I need practice. Maybe I expect too much, I think give enough time, I can do it as well. But not shooting fast. With OVF, at distance I turn back and forth and rely on feedback to fine tune focus. With EVF, the feedback system get slow down 'a lot' to me. To keep the same speed and expectation, my hit rate is low. Is that make sense? carstenw wrote:
With my 35/1.4 or 85/1.4 wide open, I can focus the A7 almost every time in reasonable light. When it gets darker, or when I stop down a couple of stops, I need the magnifier.
p.136 #2 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
sflxn wrote:
Hey, glad you came to a conclusion. Light doesn't last that long this time of year so I haven't been able to do anymore test with lens. I'm not very optimistic so it's low on my priority.
Just curious, are you guys selling your NEX? I have a NEX-7 and this lens is great on it so I'm in different boat. Keeping the NEX 7 to use with this lens and as a backup sounds like a very appealing proposition. I have no doubts that a great FE wide on an A7 or A7R will likely be better, but look at the size differences! I toyed with the idea of buying the Olympus 21/3.5, but I know that eventually, Zeiss will come out with high quality MF FE lenses and I'd rather not buy lens and adapters that I'll use for a few months and then sell. I'd rather have a stable full of native Zeiss lenses than a hodgepodge of old lenses and adapters. ...Show more →
I am for sure keeping my 5N for lightweight travel fun, and planning to keep 10-18 for it. It seems that my adapters that were workable on 5N are problematic on A7. So yeah, the question is to upscale the adapter collection or not.
p.136 #3 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
zhangyue wrote:
ok! It means I need practice. Maybe I expect too much, I think give enough time, I can do it as well. But not shooting fast. With OVF, at distance I turn back and forth and rely on feedback to fine tune focus. With EVF, the feedback system get slow down 'a lot' to me. To keep the same speed and expectation, my hit rate is low. Is that make sense?
Yes, fast work is harder. I think also that the Zeiss lenses I use are easier to focus than the Leica lenses you use. The DoF transition is very different. Plus, I have just 24MP.
p.136 #4 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
All this said by sflxn.
Turning the focus ring back and forth to get it just right is very satisfying, often level one is plenty, but with 36Mp I often find the second level better.
Then a light quick touch on the shutter to recheck framing...what is liberating is that you are not forced to trust the camera to get it right - micro-adjust, green dots, red blinks on squares, tinkly sounds, wondering whether the box was on the right part of the scene, and so on - instead you get very good feedback directly from your vision on the subject. One method is an alienating and distant method.
The other involves the photographer intimately in the process. Also works brilliant in low light. The other part to get right is moving the focus box around - the rear spin dial and the arrows are very good and work well.
Will be a great help for tripod work with telephoto lenses, you better have steady hands for longer lenses at 14x if handholding.
Focus mag (focus assist) can be put on many buttons, it is a main tool for many who discover it. It's never going to beat AF, but for a lot of images it flat out works.
p.136 #5 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Another thought Michael, is that just using focus assist trains you to get more accurate focus when *not using* focus assist - because you get such good feedback on how the lens focuses for your needs.
Lenses are very different from each other to focus for sure, EVF really helps with the harder ones - the faster lenses which need critical focus; and slower or low contrast lenses that don't snick into sharp focus. It's great with ultra wide angles too which are notoriously hard to focus on an OVF.
Another thing to try is to scroll around the frame with the focus box and see how OOF looks and focus fade - it's a direct sensor feed, so it's true WYSIWYG. I set image review at two seconds and do a quick check after taking the shot, if I don't need it a light touch of the shutter release dismisses it fast. Highly customisable, some hate image review, but if you really need to know you got the shot...
p.136 #7 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
philip_pj wrote:
Turning the focus ring back and forth to get it just right is very satisfying, often level one is plenty, but with 36Mp I often find the second level better.
Then a light quick touch on the shutter to recheck framing...what is liberating is that you are not forced to trust the camera to get it right - micro-adjust, green dots, red blinks on squares, tinkly sounds, wondering whether the box was on the right part of the scene, and so on - instead you get very good feedback directly from your vision on the subject. One method is an alienating and distant method.
The other involves the photographer intimately in the process. Also works brilliant in low light. The other part to get right is moving the focus box around - the rear spin dial and the arrows are very good and work well.
Will be a great help for tripod work with telephoto lenses, you better have steady hands for longer lenses at 14x if handholding.
Focus mag (focus assist) can be put on many buttons, it is a main tool for many who discover it. It's never going to beat AF, but for a lot of images it flat out works....Show more →
Agree with all of this. There are few features that would make the experience even better for me. One would be the ability to return immediately to the magnified view after an exposure - this would be helpful for tracking action across exposures. Another would be a way to toggle between any two magnification levels, including 1:1 <-> max magnification and medium <-> max. Lastly a configurable image review option to immediately jump to max magnification of the image, centered around the last magnification bounding box that was used to focus (or to a face when face detection is enabled). Those additions would save me an enormous amount of time in my shooting workflow.
p.136 #8 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
snapsy wrote:
Agree with all of this. There are few features that would make the experience even better for me. One would be the ability to return immediately to the magnified view after an exposure - this would be helpful for tracking action across exposures. Another would be a way to toggle between any two magnification levels, including 1:1 <-> max magnification and medium <-> max. Lastly a configurable image review option to immediately jump to max magnification of the image, centered around the last magnification bounding box that was used to focus (or to a face when face detection is enabled). Those additions would save me an enormous amount of time in my shooting workflow....Show more →
I assume what we are talking what is not offered right now. For now, I only see Sony force me magnify two level, and I have to cycle the level, if I accidentally hit shutter button during focusing, I will have to go through cycle again, adding wonderful shutter delay to the mix, this is really fun (the programmed zoom button on grip only let you zoom one level, which is good)
I have to say Nikon's green dot help me a lot than I thought in real world shooting after Canon and this Sony experience. It guide me quick to the starting point and easy to adaptive based on experience.
If I have to evaluate camera as a tool capture daily life as well as wonderful landscape cityscape, this Sony is a failure. But for 2nd half, on the contrary, it is the best. I will not put unrealistic expectation to A7 but make myself adapt to 2nd portion with Sony, and rest with Nikon or leica.
p.136 #9 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
snapsy, I really hope they do these suggestions in firmware releases, I am usually happy to work around problems but this would be quite easy for them.
Here is part of a post by Guy Mancuso from the friends at getdpi, which emphasises that the a7r needs to be appreciated differently:
"as an owner of a D800e and previous owner of 40 and 60 mpx backs I just have to lay it on the line as I read these Sony threads and folks struggling a little with the 36mpx sensor. Folks this is no different than shooting the big guns of Nikon, Phase, Leica s or Hassy not to mention the Pentax 645. The bottom line your in 36mpx plus arena and you're fighting a big bull with no red cape.
I think like many D800e users you're expecting miracles in this area. It's not going to happen if you're trying to squeeze every drop out of this sensor you need to up YOUR game and play with a different set of rules. Also you're going to need better glass than ever was needed with smaller sensors. We are talking unchangeable facts here and trying to cheat some of them you will be disappointed with results. I feel like I just had to say this as a long time Pro and working instructor."
p.136 #10 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Michael, if you continue to find manual focus getting in the way of one aspect of your photography, adding even a single autofocus lens to your Sony kit might help bridge the gap to where the A7 becomes a more responsive and useful tool for capturing daily life.
Sony on Sony might not be alt but you'll be forgiven. You'll also have company here.
p.136 #12 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
michaelwatkins wrote:
Michael, if you continue to find manual focus getting in the way of one aspect of your photography, adding even a single autofocus lens to your Sony kit might help bridge the gap to where the A7 becomes a more responsive and useful tool for capturing daily life.
Sony on Sony might not be alt but you'll be forgiven. You'll also have company here.
fully agree, I was trying to add in my comment about that only apply MF.
p.136 #13 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
philip_pj wrote:
...what is liberating is that you are not forced to trust the camera to get it right - micro-adjust, green dots, red blinks on squares, tinkly sounds, wondering whether the box was on the right part of the scene, and so on - instead you get very good feedback directly from your vision on the subject. One method is an alienating and distant method… The other involves the photographer intimately in the process.
Agree completely. What baffles me is how was this not noticed during the soon-to-be-history AF SLR years? It's like the difference between driving a 1965 Ford and a modern VW Jetta.
p.136 #14 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
michaelwatkins wrote:
FE55/1.8 lenses are showing up across the U.S. today.
For Canadians: I checked with Sony Canada - their shipment was logged into their central distribution warehouse this morning. Those with pre-orders in Toronto will be chiming in here soon while westerners probably won't see lenses until next week unless Sony opts to use air freight instead of their usual ground-freight delivery of back-ordered product to dealers (including their own stores).
Either way they'll probably be in stores across the country before Dec 25.
I expect to pick up mine tomorrow
Hey, you get the good weather, but this is my consolation
cheers
p.136 #15 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
philip_pj wrote:
...what is liberating is that you are not forced to trust the camera to get it right - micro-adjust, green dots, red blinks on squares, tinkly sounds, wondering whether the box was on the right part of the scene, and so on - instead you get very good feedback directly from your vision on the subject. One method is an alienating and distant method… The other involves the photographer intimately in the process.
telyt wrote:
Agree completely. What baffles me is how was this not noticed during the soon-to-be-history AF SLR years? It's like the difference between driving a 1965 Ford and a modern VW Jetta.
I feel intimately involved in both processes; AF and MF. They're very different, but I'm totally in the loop. Including feedback from my vision on the subject.
P.S. if the SLR is about to demise (which I very much doubt), then do you think that the remaining cameras will offer a better, AF experience? Surely, you don't think that the future non-SLR cameras will be optimized for MF ? (not counting you-know-who.)
P.P.S. VW cars stink - they burn oil - all of them!
p.136 #16 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
sflxn wrote:
For critical sharpness, yes, the magnifier is a must. The EVF is so good, I don't even bother with focus peaking. The reason why it's so easy is because the clarity in the EVF. I can focus at f/1.4 and f/1.2 and clearly see where the focus is inside the EVF. Then I magnify and fine tune to get critical sharpness.
The a7 is my first mirrorless and my first experience with focus peaking. It may be my eyesight, but I find focus peaking tremendously helpful for approx zone focusing. However, with FP turned off, I have trouble nailing my focus. If I'm using the "standard" quality setting instead of "high" quality for the display, will I be able to notice "what's in focus" much easier such that I wouldn't have FP as a crutch? I set to standard quality because I heard that it helps save battery compared to high quality.
p.136 #17 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Alpha_Geist wrote:
The a7 is my first mirrorless and my first experience with focus peaking. It may be my eyesight, but I find focus peaking tremendously helpful for approx zone focusing. However, with FP turned off, I have trouble nailing my focus. If I'm using the "standard" quality setting instead of "high" quality for the display, will I be able to notice "what's in focus" much easier such that I wouldn't have FP as a crutch? I set to standard quality because I heard that it helps save battery compared to high quality.
You might try modifying the creative style to increase the contrast or sharpness, which will be reflected in the preview you see in the VF. You can also try switching the creative style to B+W, which btw also happens to work really well in combination FP (if you set your FP color to red). But overall I'd say if FP is working for you then I'd stick with it.
p.136 #18 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
snapsy wrote:
You might try modifying the creative style to increase the contrast or sharpness, which will be reflected in the preview you see in the VF. You can also try switching the creative style to B+W, which btw also happens to work really well in combination FP (if you set your FP color to red). But overall I'd say if FP is working for you then I'd stick with it.
I was just wondering if I was having a hard time seeing what's in focus with FP turned off because the display quality was set to standard instead of high. It was because of this that I use B+W with red FP.
I'll have to try the high quality display this weekend when I have some time with my camera. If that doesn't quite do it, then I'll play with the creative style contrast and/or sharpness adjustments like you mention. Hopefully that will help me a lot!
p.136 #19 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Alpha_Geist wrote:
The a7 is my first mirrorless and my first experience with focus peaking. It may be my eyesight, but I find focus peaking tremendously helpful for approx zone focusing. However, with FP turned off, I have trouble nailing my focus. If I'm using the "standard" quality setting instead of "high" quality for the display, will I be able to notice "what's in focus" much easier such that I wouldn't have FP as a crutch? I set to standard quality because I heard that it helps save battery compared to high quality.
If FP helps you, then stick with it. I have found FP helps you find the general area of focus, but it is not perfect. On my A7R, I noticed the display quality is set on high. When I toggle it to standard, I noticed edges in the EVF have more jaggies. I think manual focusing with this camera has to be personalized. There's too many variables. Eye sight, subject matter, lens. With my 50/1.2 and 85/1.4 wide-open, it's really easy to isolate subjects, esp with the 85. I first general focus by eyeballing it, and then I use magnifier (which I mapped onto my C1 button) and fine tune the focus. The magnifier for the final step is a must. My 85/1.4 is contrasty enough and the focusing ring has enough rotational movement that I might not need the magnifier, but my 50/1.2 is a little harder to nail without the magnifier when shot wide open. The focusing ring on the 50/1.2 is also way more senitive than the one on my 85.
Maybe you can use FP and then magnifier. For me, I find the FP jaggies to be annoying. If you don't want to use FP, you can try what Snapsy recommended. Give high display quality a try. After playing with that setting, I definitely prefer it. I have 4 Sony batteries so battery life is not as big a concern for me.
btw, after manual focusing my Nikkors, I now understand the hype over the Zeiss focusing ring. When I first played with a ZF, I thought it was so annoying that you must turn and turn the ring to focus it, but after the 50/1.2's sensitive focusing ring, I get it. I do find the 85G 1.4's focusing ring to be just right.
It seems that my adapters that were workable on 5N are problematic on A7. So yeah, the question is to upscale the adapter collection or not.
I expect to pick up mine tomorrow 