p.126 #1 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
philip_pj wrote:
You can see the problems they have. In stark terms 'Catch up' does not begin to describe their situation. Not to mention the cannibalisation of their own core business, their primary product that an a7r beater would directly threaten. The loss of support..user base disruption, feelings of abandonment.
Some questions...
1) Who is 'they'?
2) What is their 'primary' product?
3) Can you explain, 'The loss of support..user base disruption, feelings of abandonment.'?
p.126 #3 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Wow, first time enjoyed shooting A7. I was able to improve most of the handhold ergonomics issues. Solution was rather simple, but seems to work: remove FE35, insert Metabones adapter and 1.4/35. After this operation handhold become much much easier.
With the small lens I hold camera 95% with right hand; trying to squeeze desperately from "grip" (that minimalistic grip is just too small for anyone older than 10 years...) and same time pressing all those of buttons spread to random unergonomic places.
With proper size lens left hand is naturally below the lens and if needed I can release right hand and camera doesn't drop to ground. Button pushing become much easier. Also with proper size lens I was able to handhold 1/30s with 35mm and have keeper rate >75%. So 1.4/35 highly recommend with A7 by me. Otus should be good fit as well.
p.126 #4 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
philip_pj wrote:
Motivation? The DSLR market has lost 20% to mirrorless. If you lost 20% of your income you might be motivated to do what you can to fix the problem.
This isn't correct. First off, mirrorless is not profitable. I hear Nikon is the only one making a profit in mirrorless and Sony is breaking even. Things may change for Sony, but that's hard for us fans to really tell till the numbers comes out. Other than those two, everyone else is losing big.
Second of all, the numbers that you extrapolated this supposed loss is revenues not income, and the extrapolation is false. DSLR revenues continued to grow, and sometimes grow about the same magnitude as mirrorless revenues back when mirrorless was growing. You assume that in the absence of mirrorless, Canon and Nikon would have those revenues. Or... it could be that Olympus and Sony DSLRs would have those revenues. No one will ever know. Currently, the camera market for DSLRs and mirrorless are both in decline... sharply (year over year).
I'm now mostly a Sony mirrorless shooter and a big fan, but I won't deny the realities. We dedicated camera enthusiasts are a dying breed. In 5 years, this market will be half the size, DSLRs and mirrorless. That's the reality. Arguing whether DSLR guys are innovating or not and why mirrorless is so much better might become a moot point if the entire pond is shrinking. I'm just hoping Sony innovates like mad before they decide the market is shrinking too fast to keep investing in innovations. This is my biggest fear. I still think we have 1-2 iterations of Sony FE before it's where I'd be completely satisfied. I'm even more worried about reduction in investments in sensors. If the decline accelerates, will we ever see an RGB sensor or an organic sensor?
p.126 #5 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Was reading some of Lloyd Chambers' work on vibration and image degradation on the a7 vs. a7R; with the Leica 280 on a tripod, the effect is quite present.
Seems that at certain shutter speeds, the a7R is affected more so than at others whereas no issues at all for the a7 with its electronic first curtain. Something to consider with such a light body.
p.126 #7 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
itai195 wrote:
I've never seen Sony commit long term to any platform in any product category.
That point is often made but not being a long term Sony watcher I'm not sure what to make of it. NEX / E mount cameras have been out several years and they keep building upon success there and with the A7 cameras it has become clear E mount is here to stay. They don't appear to have abandoned Alpha mount either.
No doubt I'm missing something, but to a person like me that was only vaguely aware of Alpha mount DSLRs a few years ago (I was still shooting 120 roll film then), it appears Sony is committed to their still photography lines, at least the ones we tend to care about around here.
p.126 #10 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
michaelwatkins wrote:
That point is often made but not being a long term Sony watcher I'm not sure what to make of it. NEX / E mount cameras have been out several years and they keep building upon success there and with the A7 cameras it has become clear E mount is here to stay. They don't appear to have abandoned Alpha mount either.
No doubt I'm missing something, but to a person like me that was only vaguely aware of Alpha mount DSLRs a few years ago (I was still shooting 120 roll film then), it appears Sony is committed to their still photography lines, at least the ones we tend to care about around here. ...Show more →
Michael
You’re not missing anything.
Sony has been around with digital cameras since the beginning of the digital consumer still imaging. This company is truly a technology development organization, while Nikon and Canon who have been entrenched in the film world and moved into the digital arena dragging all the old analogue world with them as baggage. This may be to the disadvantage of Canon and Nikon as we move forward, although Canon has the technological capability to be more progressive, instead has chosen to walk in its old more comfortable shoes.
The real success of these two companies is marketing. Their propaganda has every consumer convinced they will be a better photographer if they carry a large chunk of glass, metal and plastic around. To make matters more convincing for them, along comes the cellphone and all of a sudden much of the small camera market is dropping like a rock. Obviously, in their mind, this solidifies their commitment to the “regular” DSLRs.
What bothers the critics about Sony is simply that it, more than any of the others, keeps throwing all kinds of products against the wall to see which one sticks. Due to this there have been a number of products the market has not been receptive to and or Sony found a better way of doing things and ceased to support an otherwise good product. The only concern I have, can they keep it up…
From the day I acquired my first pro DSLR I lamented the fact that it was almost as cumbersome as my Hasselblad. It’s ok if I go on a photo-shoot with someone else doing the carrying. However, if all I want to take on a hike are two lenses and a tripod, it’s already 22 Lbs. I’m carrying. Taking the A7 with a couple of lenses and a tripod comes in at less than 8 Lbs.
It has always been my wish to see technology make more compact equipment, equipment that allows for the flexibility of personal selection of lenses, but not sacrificing on quality.
Agreed, the A7(r) is not perfect, but perfection is a state that will never be achieved to the satisfaction of all.
p.126 #12 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
'I've never seen Sony commit long term to any platform in any product category.'
Which still camera product line please?
'D800 files: 60 - 70mb.
A7R files: 37 mb.
Thats an obvious loss of data.'
Your proof, please? It may be lossless or virtually lossless, but you see still all the armchair usual suspects getting very precious about losing 'their' data.
Its an old issue dating from A700/a900 days...some people get worked up over it, you can join in if you like. No one seems to see a difference, I feel Sony know more about the encoding of their data than anyone else.
More angst available here, plus several enlightened individuals:
In short, the maximum number of bits the current Sony raw format algorithm can record is 11 bits BUT it can record as little as 7 bits, all depending on the data in the image (supposedly, it will give 11 bits to areas that require smoother gradation). This was found by Iliah Borg and shown in the above thread.
In short, the maximum number of bits the current Sony raw format algorithm can record is 11 bits BUT it can record as little as 7 bits, all depending on the data in the image (supposedly, it will give 11 bits to areas that require smoother gradation). This was found by Iliah Borg and shown in the above thread.
hmm, i'm not terribly happy to hear that. perhaps that is responsible for some of my posterization issues with the rx1? i recently did a straight conversion with no post processing beyond adobe defaults of a couple of my more troublesome raws and found that they did indeed have posterization just converting them from raw to 16 bit tiffs.
p.126 #15 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
sebboh wrote:
hmm, i'm not terribly happy to hear that. perhaps that is responsible for some of my posterization issues with the rx1? i recently did a straight conversion with no post processing beyond adobe defaults of a couple of my more troublesome raws and found that they did indeed have posterization just converting them from raw to 16 bit tiffs.
The algorithm is adaptive and will use lossless compression for blocks with subtle gradients, so posterization is unlikely. If you have a raw you can share (via https://www.transferbigfiles.com/) I can take a look. Of all the raws I've analyzed associated with posterization complaints (across various cameras) I only found one with a hint of raw-based posterization (ie, gaps in the raw data) and it wasn't significant enough to create perceptual posterization after demosaicing).
p.126 #16 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
snapsy wrote:
The algorithm is adaptive and will use lossless compression for blocks with subtle gradients, so posterization is unlikely. If you have a raw you can share (via https://www.transferbigfiles.com/) I can take a look. Of all the raws I've analyzed associated with posterization complaints (across various cameras) I only found one with a hint of raw-based posterization (ie, gaps in the raw data) and it wasn't significant enough to create perceptual posterization after demosaicing).
p.126 #17 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Lloyd cops some well-deserved stick at Dyxum as he diligently faultfinds the 'subtlely consumer' level a7r:
'A NYC professional photographer writes DL: 'When you get your A7R please tell me how to format an SD card. I can't find the format function. .... Interesting camera. I need more time to be sure but I think my camera is not sharp side to side. The left side of the frame is noticeably less sharp than the right side when focusing near infinity.' Some Pro, eh!
Anyway, in his response, DIGLLOYD writes: 'This reader understands cameras—but not computers. It is an indictment of Sony design that sophisticated users have to ask such questions (ditto for most all camera companies).
The fact that this question and others like it have to be asked reveals a design flaw in the camera menu system, which is obvious in entering that maze. It bleeds into other areas in subtle ways, and adds a consumer feel to the A7R design.'
p.126 #18 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
Blue skies are endlessly problematic, medium format film is a shocker also. I encounter my share but paradoxically had many more from the a900 than a99/RX1. I'll stay tuned (maybe ask Lloyd) on the subject however, I'd like to know more. If you look hard at any variable sky the slightest variation in blues caused by tiny clouds, wisps etc, disrupt the way you see the the sky in a jpeg. That one looks poor, sebboh. Here are couple of 24Mp a99 images, nothing fancy done. I seriously like the way the sensors/processing handle highlights in general.
In short, the maximum number of bits the current Sony raw format algorithm can record is 11 bits BUT it can record as little as 7 bits, all depending on the data in the image (supposedly, it will give 11 bits to areas that require smoother gradation). This was found by Iliah Borg and shown in the above thread.
Bleh. Well, Sony were also responsible for lossy music compression with the MiniDisc. . .
p.126 #20 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless
I don't know if this has been referenced here yet, but Michael Reichman now has his take on what happens when " The world's best sensor meets the world's finest lenses" on the Luminous Landscape.
