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Archive 2013 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

  
 
carstenw
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p.107 #1 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


Emacs wrote:
So, this is close to ergonomical nightmare. The most amazing thing it is not much better than NEX-5n. I didn't think this is possible.


Please note that this is purely a personal matter, and not a question of logic or facts. The A7 isn't perfect, but within 15 minutes of playing with one in the store I had it set up to work fine for me. It is currently more efficient for me than the D800 for basic shooting, although the D800 is better at some advanced workflows (HDR, panos, ...).



Nov 30, 2013 at 02:46 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.107 #2 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless




carstenw wrote:
The distortion correction is off by default, unlike the colour cast and vignetting corrections.


Thanks Carsten. I'm not familiar with the modern Sony controls My guess was based on what transpired from the Touit lenses that are distortion corrected automatically and lose a small part of the frame as someone on this forum showed with photos converted with different software.



Nov 30, 2013 at 02:57 PM
Samuli Vahonen
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p.107 #3 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


Carsten, thanks for your ergonomic comments in past 10 pages - has been hard to read from all the hype and hardcore fanboyism (=all is so damn great, nothing can't be wrong by so many persons here - I never understood why defects cannot be discussed without fanboy vs. hater thing going on; all products have design failures, would be everyones benefit to understand them and figure wayarounds together/take them into account otherwise), but your comments I can trust.


carstenw wrote:
...although the D800 is better at some advanced workflows (HDR, panos, ...).

Can you open this up? I don't understand why. HDR/pano are very important part of my shooting techniques.

HDR - No autobracketing in A7?
(not sure about D800 but 5DmkII when in live view and 2s timer takes 3 shots within second, really great for HDR)

panos - No wired trigger possible? or what?
(if I shoot with panohead having wired remote, it makes work about 50% faster compared to 2s timer for every shot)

Samuli



Nov 30, 2013 at 03:06 PM
carstenw
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p.107 #4 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


davewolfs wrote:
How much smaller is the diameter compared to say a Leica? Do we have any lens designers here?


You can't compare directly, since the Leica has the "contacts" in the mount, and the E-mount contacts are quite far within the mount. You need to go past that to measure, which is not so easy to eyeball.



Nov 30, 2013 at 03:09 PM
turnstyle
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p.107 #5 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


ulrikft2 wrote:
Tried the 35/1.2 v2 i got on an a7r in store friday, at f/5.6 the edges were quite nice. Will most likely buy an a7r on monday, can post more samples then.


Thanks, I look forward to it -- from what I've gathered so far it seems to be a good all-arounder, coupled with a uniquely fast aperture -- though it is also heavier than what I had set as my cutoff.



Nov 30, 2013 at 03:18 PM
turnstyle
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p.107 #6 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


wfrank wrote:
What do you want to know? I've had the camera (A7) for two days and the 35/1.2 II is more or less the only one I've used so far. I posted a couple of images two days ago in the A7 image thread and some others in the A7 RF image thread.

I think it's a great walk-around lens so far. And it's not that big so the combo cant exceed a RX1 that much. It's sharp-enough, it got some CA, some distortion and is not pixel-sharp wide open but who would have thought that. Stopped down it has respectable
...Show more

Thanks so much, that's exactly what I wanted to know -- because it's such a fast lens, people mostly talk about it in terms of very dark conditions -- but I'm more interested in it as an everyday walkaround lens -- some indoor at home, some out on the street (day or night).

I hope you post more! You're giving me strength to finally make a decision...

Overall, you don't find it too heavy on the A7 body?

Do you happen to know if it performs equally well on the A7r?

Thanks again, -Scott



Nov 30, 2013 at 03:29 PM
carstenw
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p.107 #7 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


Samuli Vahonen wrote:
Carsten, thanks for your ergonomic comments in past 10 pages - has been hard to read from all the hype and hardcore fanboyism (=all is so damn great, nothing can't be wrong by so many persons here - I never understood why defects cannot be discussed without fanboy vs. hater thing going on; all products have design failures, would be everyones benefit to understand them and figure wayarounds together/take them into account otherwise), but your comments I can trust.

Can you open this up? I don't understand why. HDR/pano are very important part of my shooting techniques.

HDR - No autobracketing
...Show more

Thanks for your generous comment, Samuli. I should really go back and check that everything I wrote is still my opinion, since it has moved a bit over the last few days, but I think it is.

Anyway, the D800 has a labelled bracketing button right on top of the camera, which is very handy. Hold button, scroll wheel, to choose how many exposures.

I use a couple of different workflows, sometimes shooting them while holding the shutter button down and shooting continuously, sometimes using the bracketing controls but shooting the frames individually, sometimes just setting the aperture and ISO (base), and then varying the shutter speed manually. The latter can be done as well on the Sony, but given that the A7 has fewer buttons, although they are highly programmable, you eventually have to choose which button has what, and there are only two save sets.

The D800 can do up to 9 brackets, you can hold down the button in continuous mode, or shoot them individually, including the option of using the timer. You can use a remote release, or press the button. The A7 can do individual shots or continuous, but I didn't yet see how to use the timer to space them for vibration reduction. The camera is complex and the manual horribly insufficient, so maybe there is a way. I don't see a way to increase the number beyond 3, but see above. I don't know if there is a remote release for the A7, but I would guess so. Sony is quite good at making high-priced accessories

Even if it cannot do it this way, my most common way to do HDRs is to set aperture and ISO and vary it myself, so it isn't a disaster. It is just another way in which Sony shows that they can add complexity to a camera without necessarily improving functionality. There is so much stuff in these menus that I will never touch, yet some basic things are missing. Setting the minimum shutter speed for Auto ISO is also missing, a huge blunder, IMO. Again, I can survive, using the default shutter speed, or moving to S mode or something, but it could be better.

For panos, forget what I said, I had a brain problem when I wrote it.



Nov 30, 2013 at 03:37 PM
alanphotos
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p.107 #8 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


FlyPenFly wrote:
Looks a bit finicky and delicate like almost all Sony gear (A850, A900 exceptions). I would rather just have an E-m1 or D610, at least you have proven lenses and a confident feeling body. I don't believe in FF adapted lenses anymore after reading that Roger article, ugh!

Also, this looks like a PAIN to use.

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sony-alpha-7-7r/images/a7r-with-a-mount.jpg


this doesn't look so bad with the adapter.



Nov 30, 2013 at 03:41 PM
seekuh
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p.107 #9 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


carstenw wrote:
Thanks for your generous comment, Samuli. I should really go back and check that everything I wrote is still my opinion, since it has moved a bit over the last few days, but I think it is.

Anyway, the D800 has a labelled bracketing button right on top of the camera, which is very handy. Hold button, scroll wheel, to choose how many exposures.

I use a couple of different workflows, sometimes shooting them while holding the shutter button down and shooting continuously, sometimes using the bracketing controls but shooting the frames individually, sometimes just setting the aperture and ISO (base), and
...Show more


Where's your review, please? Scrolled a few pages back but couldn't find it.



Nov 30, 2013 at 03:43 PM
carstenw
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p.107 #10 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


There isn't one review, but a few bits and pieces. It might be easiest to click my "POSTS" button, if you would like to read it all.

I could try to collect it all into one place, and make it a bit more coherent, but I have so little spare time at the moment that I am reluctant to guarantee that I will do that.



Nov 30, 2013 at 03:47 PM
wfrank
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p.107 #11 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


turnstyle wrote:
Thanks so much, that's exactly what I wanted to know -- because it's such a fast lens, people mostly talk about it in terms of very dark conditions -- but I'm more interested in it as an everyday walkaround lens -- some indoor at home, some out on the street (day or night).

I hope you post more! You're giving me strength to finally make a decision...

Overall, you don't find it too heavy on the A7 body?

Do you happen to know if it performs equally well on the A7r?

Thanks again, -Scott


No it's not big or very heavy, it makes a nice package. Though of course something like the Contax G 35 would be neater (and also neater than e.g. the FE35). The 5D2 with a CY35/1.4 is like an elephant in comparison, albeit a very capable elephant :-)

I have no interesting shots but here's another house, this time corrected. ISO 200, F is 5.6 and time 1/40 sec. Which is about the limit I need to get sharpness from handheld shots @ 24MP. 36MP would be more demanding for per pixel sharpness. But one of few upsides I see with 36MP is that when correcting for distortion you would gain a grain of sharpness when correcting an image given that you in this case would have used say 1/60 (or higher ISO).

A7, CV35/[email protected]. Link to FULLSIZE, check the tree branches in top left corners, performance should satisfy most people.





Nov 30, 2013 at 04:08 PM
turnstyle
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p.107 #12 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


Thanks again -- you have a lovely walk! If you have any taken at fast aperture, I'd love to see those too -- regardless, many thanks for sharing!


Nov 30, 2013 at 04:29 PM
wfrank
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p.107 #13 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


Thanks. Did you see these?, nonsense shots again but all short DOFs are wideopen or close. There are a few more as I mentioned in the RF image thread.



Nov 30, 2013 at 04:41 PM
turnstyle
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p.107 #14 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


Yes, I had indeed seen those, and thank you -- I should have been more clear above -- have any been daytime + wider aperture? Is there another thread in addition to the one you linked to in the previous post?

Unfortunately I read my way through hundreds of pages of forum posts *before* I finally realized my interest in the CV 35 1.2 -- so I didn't know to look in particular for that lens.



Nov 30, 2013 at 05:05 PM
Samuli Vahonen
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p.107 #15 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


carstenw wrote:
...Anyway, the D800 has a labelled bracketing button right on top of the camera, which is very handy. Hold button, scroll wheel, to choose how many exposures...

Ah ok - I can live with 3 shots and menu, since I have not been pampered by Nikon's really good controls 5DmkII is 3 shots like A7, and only via menu, thou in my 5DmkII bodies it's just 2 buttons ("menu"+"ok") and I'm in bracketing menu.

I would fail most of the time if I would shoot HDRs like you (adjusting shutter speed manually between frames) unless it's completely windless. I usually shoot one framing 3 times and I have ended up still situations that some branches have moved during the 3 image set, and in all 3 sets from identical framing. Sure HDR software can remove some ghosting, but most of the times it leads to compromises in final image quality (thou D800 and similar caliber sensors should have less issues when HDR software uses wrong brightness image to mask ghosting).

As wired remote trigger is essential to my workflow, I did some research:
- manual doesn't say anything
- USA Sony site doesn't have anything in Accessories
But on Sony UK site + B&H there seems to be 66£/65USD wired remote. However word of warning; it's VERY basic; one can't set bulb shutter speed, time between shots and number of shots, but it has useless controls for powerzoom instead - have to see if Phottix or some other 3rd party makes proper one for A7(r).


A7(r) starts to look good option, just lots of design caused usability issues but there seems to be workarounds for majority of them.

Samuli



Nov 30, 2013 at 05:23 PM
carstenw
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p.107 #16 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


Think carefully before choosing the A7R. The A7 has a number of advantages, and although they don't seem to affect your normal workflow (that I can think of), they are still there in case anything changes. The A7R has exactly one advantage (unless you plan to work like Don McCullin, in which case the front magnesium plate might be an advantage): Almost no AA-filter 36MP sensor.

The camera can be set up so that pressing Fn brings up the quick-change screen, and the Drive Mode has the bracketing, so fairly quick access. Just useless for my indoor 5-7 normal bracketing, and occasional 9-shot bracketing. I need to do it myself. But no wind

Oh, the batteries are like 90-year-old people running marathons: not set up for serious efforts. You will needs a few I guess. I have two, and used a full one in one light day of shooting. I would carry at least three in your situation. There is an external battery charger kit which comes with one extra battery for 99 Euro, which is what I bought. I might buy one more.



Nov 30, 2013 at 05:27 PM
turnstyle
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p.107 #17 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


carstenw wrote:
Think carefully before choosing the A7R. The A7 has a number of advantages.


Anything apart from flash sync speed (not an issue for me), electronic curtain (would be nice), phase AF (which I think is a bit of a wash in the real world), and price?



Nov 30, 2013 at 05:32 PM
carstenw
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p.107 #18 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


24MP and AA filter Be careful how much resolution and sharpness you ask for. I also have a D800...

And of course the big one, it behaves better with a number of rangefinder lenses. I can imagine buying the ZM 50/2, for example.



Nov 30, 2013 at 05:35 PM
carstenw
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p.107 #19 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


carstenw wrote:
The FE 35 ia a very tiny bit narrower than my ZF.2 35/1.4 on the A7 (both), maybe 1 degree? I could measure it all out, do the trig and try to figure it out...


I pointed my FE35 directly at a bookshelf, measured everything out fairly carefully (+/- 5mm) and I came up with a horizontal angle of view of 51.4 degrees, at a distance of 167.5cm. Unfortunately, I don't have a handy infinity target in my apartment; perhaps I could order one online.

This appears to be 3 degrees narrower than Wikipedia's example 35mm lens. If I didn't make a mistake, this makes it 37.2mm of focal length, at 167.5cm.



Nov 30, 2013 at 06:04 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.107 #20 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


carstenw wrote:
The FE 35 ia a very tiny bit narrower than my ZF.2 35/1.4 on the A7 (both), maybe 1 degree? I could measure it all out, do the trig and try to figure it out...


Thanks. That seems extremely minor.



Nov 30, 2013 at 06:06 PM
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