What we apparently are discussing is what you deem to be relevant; this is a forum of photographers who are as much interested, id wager, in post work as the final shot. At least once it was asked previously in the thread how the postprocessing look was achieved. To be completely frank, I am at a loss for words at how you were blindly defending this to the point of deeming what is being done in post processing as not worthy of discussion.
So you are saying the photograph isn't relevant. Only road to it. PLEASE.
Lets talk about the image if you can. I can tell you by looking at the raw and the final its pretty clear to see what she did and I stated that in another post. She said what she did.
I'm not coming in here to argue anymore - I apologize for being snippy and do appreciate the comments - all of them. I do want to say that I generally have the 'end result' in my mind as I'm taking a shot - I already know what I want it to look like and how I will process it. Sometimes I go for a more gritty edit, sometimes I want a smoother, softer look. It's all subjective and artistically/personally motivated. I did do some soft skin smoothing on these portraits because that was part of the look I was after. No freckles were patched/spot removed away, but I did want a more contrasted, saturated, creamy skin look for them. Why? That's the vision I had in mind for those shots.
By contrast, here's an image, ironically, taken in the very same location that I went for a much grittier look with. Nothing wrong with either of them, IMO - they're just different shots/different shoots and I had different end results in mind when I took them.
airfrogusmc wrote:
So you are saying the photograph isn't relevant. Only road to it. PLEASE.
Lets talk about the image if you can. I can tell you by looking at the raw and the final its pretty clear to see what she did and I stated that in another post. She said what she did.
I am not further derailing this thread for you to try and take up a torch and run for the OP here. My comment was initially on the post-work; the OP flatly denied and seemed to be offended/largely defensive by me suggesting that what appears to most anyone visible skin retouching had taken place. If you want to know what I think of the photograph overall, PM me, because I am certainly not posting more critique here and have the FM Legion send me more enraged PMs about me 'scaring away the talent'. This whole thing is ridiculous.
How can a critique of the actual work be a derailing of anything? I can tell you one thing that PP, equipment, composition and a particular use of visual language is all part of defining a photographers look or style. If she held some stuff back my mom held back stuff in her recipe. I don't tell everyone how I process my work. Seems like you don't need anyone to tell you. Seem to have it all figured out. Whats derailing the thread isn't an intelligent discussion of the images visual merits but the subtle personal attacks by insinuating someone is a liar. So lets talk about #1. That wont derail anything unless you are still hung up on the process. I am more interested in discussing the content which there is far to little discussion about.
Thank heavens my work is marginal and I don't stand out. I can avoid this sort of professional eye ball brouhaha all together and just be happy doing what I do.
Lisa_Holloway wrote:
Before and after. The before is the raw file with not even so much as a single LR edit or noise removal on it. Just resized for the web. I like the edit. This is my style of editing. This was also not a paid shoot but just something for me for fun. Therefore, I played up the color of her hair and her eyes a bit more than I normally would. I touched up the circles under her eyes and enhanced the lighting and colors. I did not, however, delete any freckles or turn her skin to mush. I never do that.
The SOOC is great but the final is better in my opinion. What you did to the original was just enhance it but you did not change who the person really is. I wish fashion photographers did the same. Most (not all) of them change who the real people are by making necks longer, making model thin I even saw a pictures where the model's head size was reduced! In my opinion that's too much and that is why so many people are unhappy with their looks because they compare themselves to pictures of models that are not real.
Lisa, I really like your work and PP that you do. But everyone has their opinion which is good, if we all like the same things it would be a boring life.
Keep up the great work and thank you for sharing it.
One thing, whether you like Lisa's work or not, is I can tell it's her work without even looking to see who posted it. That, in my opinion, is one of the biggest compliments a photographer can get. It's sure a lot more interesting than work that looks like everyone else's.
Please. I can tell one of Lisa images without looking at who made it. I don't like all of her work but I can sure spot it and thats a big compliment that not many can say about their own work. Most of that looks like a cheap imitation of everything else. Maybe instead of trying to turn her into one of you jsut except her work as it is. These attacks are borderline personal and mean spirited. We should all talk about the work and try and remember the way that you do it and see it isn't always the right way.
"No man has the right to dictate what other men should perceive, create or produce, but all should be encouraged to reveal themselves, their perceptions and emotions, and build confidence in the creative spirit."- Ansel Adams
We should be debating the images. And I say again, lets do that.
GeorgieGirl wrote:
Boys and Girls...this is sort of an old internet dialog...
Pro Processor made a comment about his field of profession. He was showing off and upstaging.
Photog took a bit of a bump, but managed to recover.
All sorts of intolerance ensued thereafter.
Lines were drawn... thereafter
Thread deteriorated, as they will hereandafter...
Lisa, I still like the 85.
No, he wasn't. He was stating a fact.
I miss the posts from that fella who did awesome portraits. He also hired out post work for more edgy stuff. Can't recall his name for the life of me. If anyone gave his work negative crit, he always came back with, "no problem." and then he truly left it alone. It was as if to say, "opinions vary. I get it."
He didn't require constant stroking and affirmation. Anyone remember his name and know why he left here? Vague description, I know...
airfrogusmc wrote:
Please. I can tell one of Lisa images without looking at who made it. I don't like all of her work but I can sure spot it and thats a big compliment that not many can say about their own work. Most of that looks like a cheap imitation of everything else. Maybe instead of trying to turn her into one of you jsut except her work as it is. These attacks are borderline personal and mean spirited. We should all talk about the work and try and remember the way that you do it and see it isn't always the right way.
"No man has the right to dictate what other men should perceive, create or produce, but all should be encouraged to reveal themselves, their perceptions and emotions, and build confidence in the creative spirit."- Ansel Adams
We should be debating the images. And I say again, lets do that. ...Show more →
attacked? lets talk about the images?
lets recap. 42 people praise her image. one person gives HIS VIEW of the image. he gets labeled as 'one in the bunch' for his alternative view by the OP. up to that point, the entire conversation was all about photography...and it could have remained there if the OP kept it there by just saying 'thank you for the time, i appreciate the feedback'. but the OP didnt do that and was dismissive of a long standing member and was subsequently called on it.
Maybe she could handle the crit a little better. I deal with visual professionals every day that have huge egos and the money is not theirs but they treat it as such and they make you guys look like pussycats. I can clearly defend my work and my position. I win some and I lose some. Its business. Some people that are not in that environment might not be able to do it as well. My personal work, if to many people like it, that makes me very nervous. Actually someone telling someone to do something that doesn't fit with their style is usually not good advise. I have been told by some folks on line to crop out very important visual elements in my work.
Now back to point. Why do you not like #1. Lets discuss the image like intelligent adults and keep it from getting personal.
