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Archive 2013 · RX1 vs X100S

tobicus
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p.2 #1 · RX1 vs X100S

ricardovaste wrote:
You've used both? If you look at the OP, this is all I'm interested in. Thanks.

I haven't used either! I'm just here to follow the debate.

Jul 02, 2013 at 09:43 AM

wayne seltzer
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p.2 #2 · RX1 vs X100S

I think you should try out/handle a RX1to see if it works for you since behind the cost, fixed lens, and no integrated EVF common complaints, some do not like the ergonomics/grip. Of course some add a grip. This is the highly personal part we can not help you with.
All the other bullet points have been covered well above by users of both cameras.
I have been enjoying my RX1 since early December and have enjoyed the high DR, low noise, world class 24MP FF Sony sensor which is a lower rez version of the one in my D800E. That best in class FF sensor paired with a very sharp, smooth bokeh rendering zeiss 35/2 lens specially built for it gives it such high IQ

Jul 02, 2013 at 10:04 AM

millsart
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p.2 #3 · RX1 vs X100S

ricardovaste wrote:
The only part of that summary I dislike is suggesting I need to handle both first, as this isn't really possible. I've handled the X100S in store a while ago, but not the RX1.

It seems for those that have used the RX1 AND X100S, the Sony does seem to be a clear winner in IQ.

My follow up question those people are: Is this purely down to the lens, and detail rendering? Although I like this, it's kind of an expectation, what I'm less sure about is how DR, recovery handle, if there is any difference in tonality that is...Show more →

I realize that its not always possible to find shop that stocks both cameras so you can try them both out, but I still stand by it being good overall advice for any camera, and especially one with a rather unique design like the RX1.

DSLR's are all pretty much the same. Slightly different ergonomics of course, but if your okay holding a Pentax, your probably equally find with say a Nikon.

RX1 though is a bit odd, because its a tiny little body with a decent sized lens. It fits my hand well and I don't have any issues with it, but I could see some people having issues holding it, and no one wants to feel like they are likely to drop a nearly $3k camera.

These days there are a few grip options, including a pretty interesting looking Fotodiox one for $60, so that could improve the handling quite a bit for some people.

Handling isn't the end all, but it is pretty important, and can negate a bunch of features or IQ. I for example hated the OM-D. It just felt awful in my hand, I couldn't press any of the tiny little rubber buttons easily and it was physically uncomfortable for me to even press the shutter button. The add on grip helped that greatly, but point is, I simply could not have used the OM-D as body only, no matter how much I liked the features.

As such, I think handling is an important consideration if it is at all possible, since it can render all the other aspects moot.

As for tonality, the Fuji files are pretty good and have a decent DR, but the Sony files are just amazingly workable, especially in RAW. The level of detail you can pull up from under exposure as well as the overall general latitude for color tweaks etc is really second to none, save for maybe a D800.

Files just stand up to a ton of processing

Jul 02, 2013 at 10:36 AM

ricardovaste
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p.2 #4 · RX1 vs X100S

I didn't mean to dismiss the idea of handling the camera first as I too believe this is / can be a very important part of using / owning a camera. I even believe this is very relevant with DSLRs, as they all have quite different grips and overall sizes, which can render them almost unusable if your hands are particularly large / small.

The trouble is literally finding a shop that will have the RX1 as a demo body. I've not directly tried to source one out to handle, but at the same time I've passed through some shops and non have stocked them for display. At the same time, I would feel kind of guilty to say "Hey, can I try this camera and then save �800 by buying one somewhere else?". Harsh, but true!

As for the actual design of the RX1, I'm not sure it would be that much of an issue. Again, speculation. My hi-matic is of similar size / weight, and has no grip, and I'm quite happy with using that all day. The balance would be a little different, as the lens is larger on the RX1 - is it particularly front heavy? I don't see it an issue, but your reluctance suggests I *should* handle it first. It's under 500 grams with battery, around the same as my hi-matic. I feel like I could just have it on my neck all day and no notice it at all.

To really go through handling a camera, I think you need to live with it, rather than just try it in a shop - no? You can pick it up and guess your way through it, but having it on you for a few days seems like it would tell me more, which is kind of why I've posted here for info from those who do use it

p.s. anyone know a shop in London that has one to handle ?

Jul 02, 2013 at 11:11 AM

wayne seltzer
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p.2 #5 · RX1 vs X100S

The RX1 lens has some distortion which is correctable via the lens profiles in LR and slight non neutral coloring in the corners which some see shooting neutral or snowy white backgrounds. This has all been discussed before in the RX1 non image thread.

Jul 02, 2013 at 11:11 AM

ricardovaste
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p.2 #6 · RX1 vs X100S

wayne seltzer wrote:
The RX1 lens has some distortion which is correctable via the lens profiles in LR and slight non neutral coloring in the corners which some see shooting neutral or snowy white backgrounds. This has all been discussed before in the RX1 non image thread.

Thanks for mentioning that. I can't see that would be an issue for my usage though

p.s. I have one unused camera and one unused lens which are worth around �700 together. So to sell them and reinvest into an RX1 makes it feel less expensive.

Jul 02, 2013 at 11:12 AM

wayne seltzer
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p.2 #7 · RX1 vs X100S

The low weight of the RX1 around your neck has spoiled me so much that I get a harsh reminder how heavy my dslrs are when I hang them from my neck.
Great for hikes and long days of shooting.
One other important feature og the RX1 is its silent leaf shutter which along with the small non-imposing size of the RX1 make it a very discreet street and social settings camera. Even Leica M can not match the RX1's silent shutter sound.

Jul 02, 2013 at 11:21 AM

ricardovaste
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p.2 #8 · RX1 vs X100S

wayne seltzer wrote:
The low weight of the RX1 around your neck has spoiled me so much that I get a harsh reminder how heavy my dslrs are when I hang them from my neck.
Great for hikes and long days of shooting.
One other important feature og the RX1 is its silent leaf shutter which along with the small non-imposing size of the RX1 make it a very discreet street and social settings camera. Even Leica M can not match the RX1's silent shutter sound.

Yeah, this is pretty much what it's like with my hi-matic. Less than 500grams, leaf shutter. I can walk around all day without feeling it on me, and in operation it's basically silent because of the leaf shutter. These are two reasons I love using that camera, and part of why something fixed lens like this appeals as a 'digital version'.

Jul 02, 2013 at 11:34 AM

mortyb
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p.2 #9 · RX1 vs X100S

Any more input on how well AF locks on in low light, type social settings? I remember some folks struggeling.

Jul 02, 2013 at 11:36 AM

wayne seltzer
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p.2 #10 · RX1 vs X100S

mortyb wrote:
Any more input on how well AF locks on in low light, type social settings? I remember some folks struggeling.

Works well for me. The only problem I have is remembering sometimes to twist the separate ring on the lens back from macro distance mode to normal distance mode.
Otherwise it depends if you use the large center square focus pt mode and focus then recompose versus other mode using non center focus sensor. Also need to remember that it is CDAF so it can fooled if person is wearing all black.

Jul 02, 2013 at 02:49 PM

sebboh
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p.2 #11 · RX1 vs X100S

wayne seltzer wrote:
Works well for me. The only problem I have is remembering sometimes to twist the separate ring on the lens back from macro distance mode to normal distance mode.
Otherwise it depends if you use the large center square focus pt mode and focus then recompose versus other mode using non center focus sensor. Also need to remember that it is CDAF so it can fooled if person is wearing all black.

have you tried using face detect at all? is it something that you can count on?

Jul 02, 2013 at 03:02 PM

zhangyue
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p.2 #12 · RX1 vs X100S

wayne seltzer wrote:
Even Leica M can not match the RX1's silent shutter sound.
Leica can't even match canon 6D's sound, Sad!

Jul 02, 2013 at 03:17 PM

millsart
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p.2 #13 · RX1 vs X100S

Face detect works as well as any other Sony really. It can be pretty handy at times, as can features like smile shutter, where the camera fires the shutter when it detects a smile of a given threshold. Its particularity useful for group shots when you've got the camera on a tripod.

You've got all the typical Sony bells and whistles really, sweep pano, in camera HDR, watercolor, the mode where it takes several shots and averages them together for less noise (forget what its called), face detect, smile shutter, minature mode etc.

Some can seem a bit silly, but I actually have a good bit of fun wit the watercolor mode, and sweep pano works surprisingly well too

Jul 02, 2013 at 03:29 PM

ricardovaste
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p.2 #14 · RX1 vs X100S

millsart wrote:
I actually have a good bit of fun wit the watercolor mode

This is where the X100S surely wins, no? Sorry, I couldn't resist

I'm trying to source somewhere in London that might have one to fondle, but its proving difficult.

Jul 02, 2013 at 04:19 PM

millsart
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p.2 #15 · RX1 vs X100S

ricardovaste wrote:
This is where the X100S surely wins, no? Sorry, I couldn't resist

I'm trying to source somewhere in London that might have one to fondle, but its proving difficult.

Need a rimshot/high hat sound effect to go with that comment

In all seriousness though, I think the watercolor mode is really a blast to play around with and you can also apply it after the fact, so you can still have a normal file too

Just does a really nice job and making random shots look "artistic"

Its a matter of taste too depending how on you like Zeiss rendering, but your just not going to get this type of look from anything but the RX1 (or a 5D mkIII, D800 etc with Zeiss glass)

Jul 02, 2013 at 04:27 PM

sebboh
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p.2 #16 · RX1 vs X100S

millsart wrote:
Face detect works as well as any other Sony really. It can be pretty handy at times, as can features like smile shutter, where the camera fires the shutter when it detects a smile of a given threshold. Its particularity useful for group shots when you've got the camera on a tripod.

my question was really: if there is only one face in the frame can you count on the rx-1 to find it and focus on it with face detect turned on in say standard restaurant lighting?

i tested it once with the sigma lenses on my nex-7 and found that it would only find the face and focus on it correctly about 50% of the time.

i guess i'll find out for myself soon enough, i'm shopping for one as we speak...

Jul 02, 2013 at 04:33 PM

millsart
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p.2 #17 · RX1 vs X100S

sebboh wrote:
my question was really: if there is only one face in the frame can you count on the rx-1 to find it and focus on it with face detect turned on in say standard restaurant lighting?

i tested it once with the sigma lenses on my nex-7 and found that it would only find the face and focus on it correctly about 50% of the time.

i guess i'll find out for myself soon enough, i'm shopping for one as we speak...

Dimmer the lighting gets, the tougher it is for it to detect, just like with the more turned the face is and such. If the AF system is hunting a bit, the face detect likely is going to have issues as well.

I think it works a little better than what remember of the NEX's just as I think its probably a little refined being newer, but its not leaps and bounds different.

One thing that I do really like about it over the NEX is that you can have face detect turned on but still have the camera in single point or spot AF, rather than having to be in the annoying multi point mode where the camera grabs onto any random subject in the frame.

Basically if face detect isn't doing it, I can just focus and recompose with the center AF point, but generally it works pretty well and comes in useful. I rather miss it on my XE-1

Jul 02, 2013 at 04:46 PM

sebboh
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p.2 #18 · RX1 vs X100S

cool, thanks!

Jul 02, 2013 at 04:48 PM

douglasf13
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p.2 #19 · RX1 vs X100S

Yeah, I don't normally bother with features like face detect, but it is pretty cool on the RX1. Like millsart said, you can leave the camera in single point AF (I just use the normal center AF point.) When the camera detects faces, it hovers little white boxes over the faces. You can choose to ignore it, or, if you place the AF cross hairs over one of the white boxes and activate the AF, it assigns the focus to the face box that you singled out. Pretty handy.

Jul 02, 2013 at 05:11 PM

mortyb
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p.2 #20 · RX1 vs X100S

Face detect is IMO a very useful feature, and as millsart, I miss it on the X-E1. For self portraits in the field it's brilliant. Nice to know it's better implemented in the RX1 than the Nex.

Jul 02, 2013 at 05:24 PM

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