Shutterbug2006 wrote:
I owned and loved a 5DC. After buying a 5D2, I never used my 5DC again.
The original 5 was a nice camera, but it was a dust bunny. One lens change was all it took to get dirty.
I think Veroman and I are the only two people on the planet that haven't cited dust as a major 5Dc problem.
Heck, I changed lenses out in the field all the time and had plenty of shots that would have showed dust (small aperture, solid colors) but didn't.
I think a lot of this problem can be attributed to a few factors:
A) the types of lenses people are using
B) their environments.
C) their lens change method
If I did ever see a dusty bunny (which I think I got 1 or 2 right at the end of the life), I'd just rocket blower it out.
It's not like the auto-cleaning methods of today are any better than rocket blowing - they reduce required rockets / wet cleans. If you've got a sticky piece of dust that a rocket blower cannot remove, you can be pretty sure an in-camera sensor clear won't get it either.
edit - "end of the life" for my ownership, not the camera itself
cputeq wrote:
I think Veroman and I are the only two people on the planet that haven't cited dust as a major 5Dc problem
There's more than one in this thread that you forgot to include to that list.
Of course buying cameras can be similar to buying a computer: do I jump in now or wait for the next model? Some will get stuck in the endless waiting cycle. Pros and cons of course, but while you are waiting you could be shooting.
Maybe one option is to watch all the sources for either camera and then pounce on a great deal that pops up. I do this when buying used gear: make a disciplined list of stuff with alternative options and then buy the item with the greatest savings and resale potential if needed...
PhotoMaximum wrote:
Of course buying cameras can be similar to buying a computer: do I jump in now or wait for the next model? Some will get stuck in the endless waiting cycle. Pros and cons of course, but while you are waiting you could be shooting.
Maybe one option is to watch all the sources for either camera and then pounce on a great deal that pops up. I do this when buying used gear: make a disciplined list of stuff with alternative options and then buy the item with the greatest savings and resale potential if needed...
And here people simply behave differently - some always jump on the latest and newest products while others use them for a while which includes jumping over one or two new generations before updating. I belong to the second category and only update if I can see a real need or benefit. Currently Canon's camera segment appears more stagnant to me; improvements were made in areas where I don't have priorities and where I wouldn't benefit a lot from in my style of shooting. So I am simply using what I already have and wait for the next generation of cameras to consider (which will not only include Canon).
Requisite Photo... Not as good as the first one... notice the dust spots... in order to show the flaws inherent in the 5Dc... but it did bring me another cold one and now has the steaks ... Medium RAW ... on the grill
cputeq wrote:
... I think a lot of this problem can be attributed to a few factors:
A) the types of lenses people are using
B) their environments.
C) their lens change method
One of the major causes of sensor dust is changing lenses with the camera still turned on. It's a no-no.
- Steve
So here is an image I took while I was in a casual mood. I broke many rules, composition, shutter speed, no tripod, timing. I did carefully expose this image.
Shot info: 5D classic, 24-105IS, 1/40s, f/4 (wide open!), ISO3200
Processing info: LR 4.3, no exposure correction (!), Topaz DeNoise setting RAW - light
Exporting info: standard LR sharpening, export entire frame to 2424pixels.
Now pay attention. I want to show you how the 2424pixels image, viewed at 100%, would be viewed in an album. But the 2424pixels image is too wide to show here on FM. So I took a 800x1000 crop from the 2424x1616 image to keep it at 800px wide.
Just to make sure you understand: this is not a 100% sensor crop! It's a 100% crop of an already scaled down image.
Now before scrolling down, move away from your screen a little bit to match the viewing distance that you would view a 12" (full size) photo album.
veroman wrote:
One of the major causes of sensor dust is changing lenses with the camera still turned on. It's a no-no.
- Steve
I don't change lenses with the camera on.
I have a technique that minimized the time the chamber is open to perhaps a second or less, and even then it is usually not entirely exposed.
If things are really bad (dust storms, high winds, etc.) I will sometimes forego a lens change or retreat to my car to do the switch.
My first line of defense is also a bulb blower, with my second being a brush. I rarely wet clean.
My lenses are all excellent quality lenses and not unusual in the sense that I'm using something that would tend to promote dust.
But aside from all of that...
I used both cameras extensively - one for 3 1/2 years (and still occasionally as second or backup) and the other for 4 1/2 so far - and while working and shooting in roughly the same fashion the incidence of enough dust to have to manually clean the sensor was far lower with the 5D2 than the 5D.
I suppose that I cannot disprove the claims of the few who - perhaps having never used a 5D2 extensively for comparison - say that they had no dust issues with their 5D bodies. I congratulate them on their fine luck with that excellent camera. However, while I have only heard of those few with this exceptional experience here in this forum, a) they seem to be a very, very distinct minority, and b) while I've met lots of folks "in the field" shooting these cameras who share my experience, I have yet to meet one who share that of the no-dust-in-the-5D contingent.
But aside from all that, too...
Dust reduction - whether or not you believe it exists - is not the only factor for our OP to weigh. Given the full context for his decision that he provided to us, he would also need to ask a series of questions about:
whether the time value of having a 5D "this summer" is great enough, given that he already has a fine 7D, they he should not - as he proposes - wait a bit longer and save for a 5D2?
whether, given his particular kinds of photography, his 7D will really continue to work just fine - e.g., how much real difference will he see in image quality with either a 5D or a 5D2?
whether any of the other features of the 7D might be as or more useful to him as whatever advantage he might get from the 5D or 5D2?
whether or not he places any value on features such as somewhat better high ISO performance in the 5D2, live view, video, and so forth.
I could see him making a decision in any of three directions here, though given what we know about him I doubt if the 7D is the most likely choice.
BTW guys and gals... I am saving for a 5Dc. I can't justify anything better for a few years. I don't make piles of money and I have a pair of kids, 6 & 10... they are my focus and if I can make better images mainly for my hobby, I will use an older not so full featured body. I do not have to have the latest and greatest body... it is a light box after all!
Thanks guys!
I think he left to get a 5Dc... We're just fighting among ourselves right now
FWIW dust was never much of an issue with any of my 5D's. The occasional attack with a blower brush was all I usually needed.
I thought I read recently that Mr Westfall said turning the camera off to change lenses was quite unnecessary as the sensor is only charged at the moment of exposure, plus the mirror is in the way anyhow and if light can't get to it neither can dust.
Hi Dan,
I think you're on the right track here, we are not succeeding much in sticking to the OP's subject and you manage to get back to that.
gdanmitchell wrote:
Dust reduction - whether or not you believe it exists - is not the only factor for our OP to weigh. Given the full context for his decision that he provided to us, he would also need to ask a series of questions about:
whether the time value of having a 5D "this summer" is great enough, given that he already has a fine 7D, they he should not - as he proposes - wait a bit longer and save for a 5D2?
Given his gear list (everyone should have a look!) and his subjects:
"I shoot family stuff, kids sports, macro for my own benefit and some senior portraits for something that actually pays a little money." and "most of my work is available light as I really enjoy the challenge."
I think that the one thing he does not have right now is the perspective a FF body provides. For nice portraits with his current lenses, any FF body will really be beneficial. I would say 5D, be it now or next year.
whether, given his particular kinds of photography, his 7D will really continue to work just fine - e.g., how much real difference will he see in image quality with either a 5D or a 5D2?
The OP says "is the 5Dc able to compete with the 7D in available light or would I be better off to give up FF this summer and save for a 5DII?". This means that he is looking for better high ISO performance, not other features of the camera (which in my opinion are similar between 7D and 5DmkII except for AF).
For this I would say 5DmkII.
whether or not he places any value on features such as somewhat better high ISO performance in the 5D2, live view, video, and so forth.
He doesn't seem interested in those. He will keep his 7D anyway and for shooting kids stuff even I sometimes wish I had one.
This guy has plenty of (good) glass so there isn't a trade off to be made 5Dc + glass vs 5DmkII. The trade off seems to be 5Dc now or 5DmkII next summer. But given his impressive gear list I feel he could stretch for a 5DmkII now if he really wanted.
Bottom line is I would get a 5Dc to explore the world of FF. Then if he likes it he's fine. If not satisfied he can sell the 5Dc next year and lose only a bit of cash, but the 5DmkII may have come down by then too, so no real loss of investment.
That's kind of what I thought!