p.2 #1 · Guide: Get 24p RAW on a 5D Mark III with Magic Lantern
justruss wrote:
^^ Incredible detail.
This is either going to fry a bunch of 5d3/2s or make Canon look really, really bad.
Next question: Will there be a way to directly output this to a HDD/SSD based media from the camera so we don't have to rely on slow, space-limited CF cards?
Hard to say. The clean HDMI out on the 5Dmk3 is only 4:2:2 8bit, but that also requires an external recorder. HDMI is capable of handling the bandwidth of this new RAW video feature, but any then the issue becomes whether it is cheaper to buy an external recorder capable of pulling down a 14bit stream, or a number of really large 1000x CF cards.
p.2 #2 · Guide: Get 24p RAW on a 5D Mark III with Magic Lantern
The latest build is really becoming quite stable and easily usable! Amazingly quick progress!
(make sure to download the original file to see the full quality, VLC plays back that file type well)
You can auto batch all frames in PP/ACR (so you get more than just ACR tools) and export as tiff and then use AE to convert to a movie format or use AE/ACR for both steps.
In AE you select Import.....Multiple Frames then select the first frame (if RAW it will bring up ACR and you set the settings to use for all frames and then open the frame then the file dialog comes up again and this time you hit the Import Folder button. Then you select that import and use Export..Send to Render Queue and then in Render Queue you can adjust settings and then hit Render to create the video file.
p.2 #4 · Guide: Get 24p RAW on a 5D Mark III with Magic Lantern
_SBS_ wrote:
Good tracking on that bird in that Iso 3200 test. Looks amazing.
yeah it was very difficult, tracking a bird when doing stills is tough, but during video and without AF it is nearly impossible, and yet on this one take I managed to keep the bird almost perfectly centered and in focus no matter how it darted to and fro, although I did lose the focus a bit near the end (although I prefer to pretend that I was simply demonstrating how it dealt with mesh patterning on some old cushions I dug up, wait I mean on fine details on tropical grasses and flowers)
Are those your flowery pillow cases?
pillow cases?? All I see in the video is a bird in front of tropical savannah. I was in a remote part of central Africa when I took that footage.
p.2 #5 · Guide: Get 24p RAW on a 5D Mark III with Magic Lantern
When watching the video I thought you were demonstrating how it dealt with the fine details in the BG. You fooled me
Still amazing. Too bad the cards are $$$ and dont last too long with that much data. Even when the price goes down I can see card swapping being a pain. All scenes will be the same length
Be nice if it could be output another way...I guess thats one way that the Blackmagic has it beat with it's removable ssd's.
p.2 #6 · Guide: Get 24p RAW on a 5D Mark III with Magic Lantern
_SBS_ wrote:
When watching the video I thought you were demonstrating how it dealt with the fine details in the BG. You fooled me
nope, it was simply struggling to keep the quickly moving bird in focus that tossed the focus to the back cushions I mean tropical savannah near the end
Too bad the cards are $$$ and dont last too long with that much data. Even when the price goes down I can see card swapping being a pain. All scenes will be the same length
They removed the 4GB limit now. Yeah the cards fill up so ft it's scary and the film-like need to develop first and then check things over it kind of a pain, but the quality is just insane (not Alexa-perfect by any means, intense reds gets stair-stepped edges, occasional aliasing, no global shutter, etc. but man pretty damn good though).
p.2 #8 · Guide: Get 24p RAW on a 5D Mark III with Magic Lantern
skibum - Got it working, but it only records ~30 frames before it drops one. I can set it to record anyway, but it gets ugly quick and starts dropping about as many as it records. What card are you using? Reading on the ML site, sounds like 1000x is what should be used. Mine is a 32gb 400x transcend, looks like I need to pay if I wanna play.
I see you're using ACR to edit the dng files, that does seem to work surprisingly well. What are you exporting them as? And, what program are you using to convert those exports into video?
p.2 #9 · Guide: Get 24p RAW on a 5D Mark III with Magic Lantern
corndog wrote:
skibum - Got it working, but it only records ~30 frames before it drops one. I can set it to record anyway, but it gets ugly quick and starts dropping about as many as it records. What card are you using? Reading on the ML site, sounds like 1000x is what should be used. Mine is a 32gb 400x transcend, looks like I need to pay if I wanna play.
I see you're using ACR to edit the dng files, that does seem to work surprisingly well. What are you exporting them as? And, what program are you using to convert those exports into video? ...Show more →
I haven't even compiled it myself yet since the daily builds keep getting put up faster than I can get up to speed on which code branches are going well.
Yeah you MUST have a fast card, a 1000x for sure and a GOOD 1000x card at that. My Lexar 32GB 1000x are working.
Currently I use the raw2dng to make the directory of dngs and then I edit one in Photoshop and ACR and record that and then I batch 'em in PS to TIFF and then I am now using AE to then take the TIFFs (select Import....multiple files, then select the first TIFF (or DNG if you use AE to batch the DNGs instead, you still get to use ACR this way but don't get to use any PS tools afterwards) and then it will open up the file handler again and this time you select "Import Folder" and then you click that imported directory of batched TIFFs/DNGs and select Export... to Rnder Queue and then set settings down in the render queue and then hit Render (currently I am trying turning them into AVI Cineform 12bit 444 Film Scan format, before I was turning them into AVI lossless).
p.2 #10 · Guide: Get 24p RAW on a 5D Mark III with Magic Lantern
Thanks dude. That doesn't sound so bad at all. I'm done with swiping software and $550 is a bit steep for me, but I'll check out the trial and go from there. Good to know on the card.
I was surprised how easy the install was. I followed the Cinema5D instructions and it went fine until step 16 where you press the trash button to run ML for the first time...nothing happened. The instructions were kind of sucky at that point because it says that if it doesn't work, perform step 5 again....but did they mean to just start over at step 5, or did they mean to perform step 5 only and then return to step 16, or did they mean to perform step 5 and then just stare at the ceiling until the camera magically starts working...? And the instructions focus too heavily on the Mac method for preparing the SD card in steps 10-13 and refer to you the ML site for Windows users, but they don't specify which segment of the ML instructions you should start/stop at. All they needed to say was "Run EOScard - Verify your card is recognized in the top right - Click on the ML camera on the bottom right - Click Save - Remove card". Anyway, turned out that when I prepared the SD card with EOScard, I didn't realize that you had to click in the ML camera image on the bottom right so that the program would set the SD card up for ML. If I hadn't wasted some time with that, it would have been a two minute install, which is pretty awesome.
p.2 #11 · Guide: Get 24p RAW on a 5D Mark III with Magic Lantern
Sorry I haven't tried this out, and probably won't as I don't care about video, but I am still curious about the procedure. You're saying that you convert the video stream into individual still frames, convert those from raw to tiff, and then batch that back into a movie? That sounds incredibly ... intense. Somehow I thought that Premiere / AE understood raw video, as in, one big fat file that contains frames...
p.2 #12 · Guide: Get 24p RAW on a 5D Mark III with Magic Lantern
Skibum knows more than I, but as far as I know, the only way you can work with the .RAW file is to convert it with a special program, which converts a single .RAW file to toooooooons of individual DNG image files (individual frames!). It does that super fast, so that's no biggie. I think you can then import all those images directly into After Effects and edit/export. Alternatively, and probably easier, you can open a single file in ACR and then batch convert the others identically, as skibum mentioned. It would be annoying if you were doing this for family quickie clips, but I don't think it's a big deal for enthusiasts.
And yes, you have it correct (per skibum's preference) except that I'd omit the words "batch that" from your second sentence.
p.2 #15 · Guide: Get 24p RAW on a 5D Mark III with Magic Lantern
stanj wrote:
Sorry I haven't tried this out, and probably won't as I don't care about video, but I am still curious about the procedure. You're saying that you convert the video stream into individual still frames, convert those from raw to tiff, and then batch that back into a movie? That sounds incredibly ... intense. Somehow I thought that Premiere / AE understood raw video, as in, one big fat file that contains frames...
There is no video stream, it's a stream of RAW or maybe DNGs packed into one file. RawtoDNG.exe then extracts each frame that were all stored as a single file and wraps them in a DNG header (assuming they were not already so).
So you have one file holding many still frames.
A program extracts them into one file for each frame.
Using Photoshop:
You record an action by loading one DNG and process it up in ACR and then tweak it in Photoshop and save as TIFF and close and then stop recording the action. You then batch them all with automate and get a folder of TIFFs.
You then load the folder of tiffs into AE and have it then convert them into some sort of movie file.
Using AE:
You load in a DNG folder and then asks you to develop the first one in ACR.
You then add to render list and then it processes them all in ACR and turns them into a video file.
You take those movie files and splice and edit them together however you want in Premiere Pro and then render out the final movie.
p.2 #16 · Guide: Get 24p RAW on a 5D Mark III with Magic Lantern
stanj wrote:
Sorry I haven't tried this out, and probably won't as I don't care about video, but I am still curious about the procedure. You're saying that you convert the video stream into individual still frames, convert those from raw to tiff, and then batch that back into a movie? That sounds incredibly ... intense. Somehow I thought that Premiere / AE understood raw video, as in, one big fat file that contains frames...
Not this format. AE is close, you can just feed it the folder of DNGs after RAWtoDNG unpacks them and then have it ACR process and convert them into a movie format all in one step.
p.2 #17 · Guide: Get 24p RAW on a 5D Mark III with Magic Lantern
stanj wrote:
Damn. And I thought I was crazy for doing time lapses in raw...
It's no different. It's the same exact thing. Other than the RAWtoDNG step which simply unpacks all the RAWs from one file into a ton of files and this step is pretty quick and can be batch automated for multiple RAW video files.
it is a pain that you sort of need to develop the film and do primary color editing first and then you look over what you have like an old film workflow instead of the nice digital workflow where you quickly look over footage and toss out junk and clip stuff together than deal with that stuff only.
p.2 #18 · Guide: Get 24p RAW on a 5D Mark III with Magic Lantern
stanj wrote:
Damn. And I thought I was crazy for doing time lapses in raw...
skibum5 wrote:
It's no different. It's the same exact thing. Other than the RAWtoDNG step which simply unpacks all the RAWs from one file into a ton of files and this step is pretty quick and can be batch automated for multiple RAW video files.
it is a pain that you sort of need to develop the film and do primary color editing first and then you look over what you have like an old film workflow instead of the nice digital workflow where you quickly look over footage and toss out junk and clip stuff together than deal with that stuff only.
In my "ideal" world, the app - be it AE or FCPX - would take the raw footage (of whatever format, Alexa or 5D3 or whatever) and have controls to do the raw adjustments - ideally at several key frames and then interpolate in between. I guess we're not there yet. I just hope it isn't too far away...
p.2 #19 · Guide: Get 24p RAW on a 5D Mark III with Magic Lantern
A few gotchas:
1. video is typical viewed back with monitors set to gamma 2.2, not sRGB TRC
2. most video playback programs do not apply color profiles for either movie files or monitors (with MPC and MadVR and yCMS I think you can get it to apply color management if you create special profiles though)
3. when we edit these frames in ACR and choosing sRGB gamut it is also then using sRGB TRC which is NOT gamma 2.2 and AE and PS ACR are color aware so they translate sRGB TRC to the monitor and when you choose sRGB gamut it is writing the files stored in sRGB TRC not stored as gamma 2.2
4. Because of 1-3 when you playback the videos you've created with most software it will then slightly change the contrast and highlights and shadows compared to how you thought edited things, the shadows and darker mid-tones will look too dark and contrasty etc.
5. ACR seems to be locked into four editing choices for gamut so no help there. So AE may not be the program to use. Using Photoshop + ACR you should create and action to convert the file from sRGB gamut+TRC to sRGB gamut+gamma 2.2. I will have to look and see if there are any current profiles floating around that combine sRGB/REC709 primary locations with gamma 2.2 instead of sRGB TRC. Most all of the current sRGB profiles use sRGB TRC not gamma 2.2. Hopefully there is one otherwise I guess I will have to create one.
6. because of #2 you need to have you monitor calibrated (not profiled) to the exact same primary locations and tonal response curve that the video was expecting, if you calibrated your screen to sRGB then all the gamma 2.2 video will look a bit off but if you calibrated it to gamma 2.2 then the video made using standard ACR methods will look a bit off
(7. The current version of QuickTime for Windows appears to work differently than most players. It almost seems like it notices if some video has been tagged sRGB and then converts for sRGB TRC so darker parts play back a bit brighter than with other programs?? OTOH it sometimes seems to play 16-235 video without levels expansion and for video that is not properly tagged or something it can then look very washed out?? Quicktime on windows does not follow video card levels expansion settings. So it seems like it shows some video more accurately but many less accurately?? Not sure though if I go to wide gamut mode it definitely does not translate for that which makes it seems doubtful it would try to translate for monitor tone response curve but perhaps it does??)
p.2 #20 · Guide: Get 24p RAW on a 5D Mark III with Magic Lantern
Using either internal RAID 0 or external RAID 0 connected through true USB 3.0 sure helps! Almost an absolute key I'd say. And I suppose the new i7 3770 doesn't hurt either. Dealing with this RAW stuff, an up to date computer, through and through, sure makes a huge difference.
It was just taking out of control too long before I got a motherboard with full speed USB 3.0 support (had been using a USB 3.0 card on PCI which was a bit slow before) and before the RAID drive it was just ridiculous. It is still slow, but it's no longer ridiculous. I was wondering how people kept popping out so much processed footage.
PS stage is still a bit slow, but vaguely bearable now.
Even just using RAID 0 even with slow pseudo USB 3.0 is nice since you can play back CineForm 444 Film Scan 2 in real time more or less. And on the current setup for sure.
