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Archive 2013 · Adobe kills standalone software

  
 
Xavier Rival
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p.10 #1 · Adobe kills standalone software


Beni wrote:
Jeff Schewe, Adobe's pet brain dead bulldog is doing the same thing over on LL, defending Adobe with non nonsensical arguments and abuse for anyone who disagrees.

What this is doing is putting into perspective the loyalty of these Adobe side liners. Especially with the abuse they are pouring out. I wonder why they can't see how much this is damaging their own businesses. Calling your main client base 'haters' and 'piraters' and other nasty names is not good business. That they ever had any legitimacy is now beyond a doubt. They are alienating their own client base to dance to
...Show more

This is exactly how I feel today, even though I am "just" a LR user (never owned PS besides a version of Elements that was shipped with my first DSLR about ten years ago, and that convinced me all I need is a good RAW converter), and I am fully aware that LR is not impacted by the cloud thing.

First, I feel a deep threat, as I fear the same thing may happen to LR next (whatever Adobe executives are saying today). So, I wonder whether I should keep investing time using it although I may have to drop LR next year (for instance, if LR also goes cloud and I have to upgrade my OS to a new version for whatever reason, and my current LR does not work with that version), possibly at the cost of not recovering all my work in the LR catalog / .xmp files.

Second, I see the tone of some of the defenders of Adobe's strategy. It seems clear they do not feel like they have to listen to people like me, who practice photography as a hobby, and like to manage the money they spend there. They probably assume that being an industry standard gives them the guarantee that professionals will still pay whatever they ask for, so they do not need to do more.

All in all, I do not see how I could still trust such a corporation.



May 08, 2013 at 08:42 AM
Jman13
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p.10 #2 · Adobe kills standalone software


Lan11 - I can't agree with you on the CS6 upgrade. I think it was a very big improvement, mostly under the hood. The speed improvements in image processing were huge. Additionally, the Adaptive Wide angle tool has almost been worth the price of that upgrade by itself. That said, this CC plan is nuts.


May 08, 2013 at 08:43 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.10 #3 · Adobe kills standalone software


I think Thom Hogan got this one right.

"This one is going to end up a Harvard business school Case Study for future MBA students to chew on." ...and I don't think he means as a positive outcome business case!

Here is what he says about plug-ins AND NIK:

"This also raises the issue of plug-ins. Google gobbled up Nik recently, and I'm sure they are thinking cloud photography in some way, too. With Adobe disappearing into frequent cloud updates (or so they say), how long will it be before Adobe announces an "add-on" plug-in cloud option?" Yeah, plug-ins seem an obvious, future revenue stream for Adobe's bean counters.
http://www.bythom.com/



May 08, 2013 at 09:04 AM
grahamb3
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p.10 #4 · Adobe kills standalone software


I think this just illustrates Thom's ignorance (regarding the Adobe cloud implementation).


May 08, 2013 at 09:12 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.10 #5 · Adobe kills standalone software


grahamb3 wrote:
I think this just illustrates Thom's ignorance (regarding the Adobe cloud implementation).


So, you don't see that Adobe plans to implement heavy duty, server-side image manipulation that might be used for less processor intensive devices (cell phones, tablets, etc.) or even some operations that might be better handled by massive server farms? This is coming - and there will be consumer benefits- but the future ramifications for traditional desktop plug-ins (perhaps not with the current CC but maybe in a few years) is already written on the wall. Adobe has as much as stated this with regard to powerful server-side processing. It's not a great leap to see that they will monetize such a feature.



May 08, 2013 at 09:37 AM
grahamb3
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p.10 #6 · Adobe kills standalone software


I like Jeff Schewe's honest response posted on the Luminous Landscape forum (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=78085.300). I suspect many won't wade though the 17 pages of replies (I started at the end), so I'm pasting it here.

Quote from: Peter Le on May 07, 2013, 11:10:08 PM
Can you at least understand our concern ? Or is your credibility gone with Adobe's ?

"I understand people are pissed off with this change...I understand that people don't like to feel strong-armed into something they don't understand (and there has been plenty of FUD to confuse out there).

I understand that Adobe has made a decision that is unpopular with a very vocal group (but a small % of the installed user-base) and I also understand Adobe felt it was in their best interest do make this change (and in general, I tend to agree–not 100% mind you, but overall I agree).

I also think that over time, this will blow over when people actually try CC and find benefit. I think if Adobe DOES actually make the sort of timely upgrades for features on a regular basis, CC users will see benefit.

Will some people allow their anger to drive them to other solutions? You bet...and personally, I would love to see more competition in the industry. If Adobe's CC decision gives some small developer hope that their products might find a group of users that allow them to move forward, I think that's good for the industry. Competition breeds excellence.

Am I sad that some talented but poor individuals will get squeezed out of digital imaging because of this? Yep...all I can do is try to have empathy. That's the one thing about this that makes me cringe.

Does it bother me some people who have bought Photoshop and have no friggin' talent and like to use a "pro app" when they would be better served using Photoshop Elements starts bitching and whining and threatens to quit Photoshop and use GIMP to teach Adobe a lesson? Nope, doesn't bother me in the least...I've always thought that buying a Photoshop license should come with a test to be sure that Photoshop will be used in a worthy manner. If a bunch of wannabes jump from Photoshop to GIMP, it won't bother me in the least because then I won't have to deal with them pissing&moaning about how their hardware/software/camera/wife isn't meeting their expectations...

In the grand scheme of things, is Adobe's CC initiative the most important issue in your life? Does war, peace and hunger fit somewhere towards the top of your "this matters" list?

Get a hold of yourselves...this ain't the end of the world...a meteor is not on a direct path to crash on Earth (as far as I know), nobody has assassinated the President, North Korea has not launched missiles to hit Austin, TX.

Jeeesh, get a grip on yourselves...chill out, take a pill, read a book, have a life. If what Adobe does or doesn't do is ruining your life, how good was your life to begin with? Seriously, get over yourselves. It ain't like Adobe has been discovered to be involved with human trafficking or pedifilia...all they are trying to do is exploit the results of their efforts–their art (and make some money for their shareholders).

And yes, I am happy to admit, I own some Adobe stock...300 shares, it's about 5% of my portfolio (it's not like I think Adobe stock is a growth stock, not with the maturation of their market–although maybe CC might signal a positive change in that regard :~)

As far as my credibility is concerned...I guess you just don't understand. I seriously couldn't care less what my credibility may or may not be. I just don't care what people think. Sorry, maybe that's a character flaw (not in my mind :~), but guess what, I don't care...it means nothing to me...zilch, zero, nada, nothing. Get it?"



May 08, 2013 at 09:39 AM
burningheart
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p.10 #7 · Adobe kills standalone software


Although the Microsofts and Adobes of the world have moved to rental software, and others will likely look at making the move at some point in time, there is one thing that someday will come back to haunt them with regards to the non-professional market (those that can't write off the expense).

Many say $50 a month is not much to use Adobe's cloud but add in Microsoft Office another $10 a month, who is next, the costs will add up. For a household or student these will add up to a point that it no longer fits in the budget and software will be one of the first things to go.

A balance will eventually be reached and the Microsofts and Adobes will reach saturation where they have a steady cash flow for rentals but what they will discover is the will not be able to grow the business as they will have lost a segment of the market that only purchased and upgraded when it was feasible for them to do it.

Finally the next time the economy takes a big nose dive, the bean counters and decision makers at various companies will look hard at their costs and software rentals will be scruntized carefully. Working 25 years in the IT world we never upgraded for each new version as the expense was not justifiable when looking at our own companies bottom line. I know senior management always questioned the costs associated with licensing, the same will hold true for rental.





May 08, 2013 at 09:39 AM
Jman13
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p.10 #8 · Adobe kills standalone software


At least Microsoft, for the time being, still offers Office as a complete standalone product. You can pay for Office 365, or you can buy a copy of office for your machine.

If Adobe did this, I would have no problems whatsoever. It's the removal of that choice that gets me.



May 08, 2013 at 09:49 AM
burningheart
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p.10 #9 · Adobe kills standalone software


I agree with you, and I am sure many IT managers do as well, senior management at companies won't like the concept of software is unusable if the subscription is halted. At least Microsoft still allows printing of existing documents.


May 08, 2013 at 09:52 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.10 #10 · Adobe kills standalone software


burningheart wrote:
the concept of software is unusable if the subscription is halted.


Adobe will give in to this fatal flaw of their strategy. It's unavoidable imo. It is THE biggest issue almost everyone has with this subscription model.



May 08, 2013 at 09:58 AM
eyal.ma
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p.10 #11 · Adobe kills standalone software


What I find funny about Schewe's response there, is that the unconcern about those "wannabies" whom he doesn't take into account.

Many of those wannabes are also people who paid adobe to use photoshop or other products. Adobe is not just about the pros and businesses.
They also have a pretty big amateur user base. People who might even do this for a living but not every day all the time.

All they are really doing is forcing a big part of this base into either pirate the software, or just move to a different software.

In the long run, it doesn't produce more revenue if you push them out, and adobe does not think of them as customers it seems. So if someone brings out a half-replacement software for cheap in the next year or so, adobe will start to lose customers.



May 08, 2013 at 10:09 AM
eyal.ma
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p.10 #12 · Adobe kills standalone software


Tariq Gibran wrote:
Adobe will give in to this fatal flaw of their strategy. It's unavoidable imo. It is THE biggest issue almost everyone has with this subscription model.


To be honest, if adobe would allow users after lets say 3-4 years of paying subscription to keep their current software, that would actually shut 99.9% of the people angry.

But I don't think they will.



May 08, 2013 at 10:14 AM
Jman13
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p.10 #13 · Adobe kills standalone software


3-4 years, no...1-2 years...yup, that'd shut me up. I'd be fine with that, if every 2 years, I got a perpetual license at CC at that point in development.

3-4 years, you're now talking a commitment in the area of $800 for an upgrade from CS6. Way too much to gamble on.



May 08, 2013 at 10:36 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.10 #14 · Adobe kills standalone software


Jman13 wrote:
3-4 years, no...1-2 years...yup, that'd shut me up. I'd be fine with that, if every 2 years, I got a perpetual license at CC at that point in development.

3-4 years, you're now talking a commitment in the area of $800 for an upgrade from CS6. Way too much to gamble on.


Yep, that's what I would consider reasonable - two years. I'm sure Adobe looks at such a model and thinks how is that really any different than what we had except now we have the hassle of keeping track of all those subscriptions!

They are obviously doing this to guarantee every single customer (individual income stream!) in perpetuity. THAT is a hostage situation. Give that up and they loose their guarantee. It really is a scheme of the worst kind. How can a consumer trust a company that pulls that?



May 08, 2013 at 10:51 AM
aleksanderpolo
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p.10 #15 · Adobe kills standalone software


I agree, or give user a perpetual license whenever they decide to stop subscribing after paying for 2 years. The version will be frozen at the current version without any future improvement/update.

If Adobe show the long-term user a way out with a perpetual license, I think most of the criticism will be gone and the subscription model is pretty attractive in lowering the entrance fee.

Jman13 wrote:
3-4 years, no...1-2 years...yup, that'd shut me up. I'd be fine with that, if every 2 years, I got a perpetual license at CC at that point in development.

3-4 years, you're now talking a commitment in the area of $800 for an upgrade from CS6. Way too much to gamble on.




May 08, 2013 at 10:55 AM
HopeIsEternal
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p.10 #16 · Adobe kills standalone software


Ransom-ware goes pro.

What Adobe is doing is creating ransomware and selling it as "Cloud Suite". It will lock up your self-created, self-hosted content unless you keep on paying a ransom amount *forever*.

The unending (forever) payment is the clincher for me.

What right do they have to lock me out of my images and edits done on them because I decide one day in the future to stop paying them for upgrades?

I can image the scenario where photographer family member on CC dies and leaves all their family photos to his/her family but they won't be able to open them (converted to PSD/DNG or something) because the deceased family member's "subscription" has lapsed.

This is an immoral business model!

Edited on May 08, 2013 at 11:08 AM · View previous versions



May 08, 2013 at 11:01 AM
HopeIsEternal
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p.10 #17 · Adobe kills standalone software


To be honest, I think that if Adobe wanted to cut down majorly on piracy and increase revenue, all it would have to have done was price the cloud applications at something like $9.99/month for the entire suite for individuals and higher price for companies and site licenses.

The reason for low price for individuals is that you want everyone learning and using your software so that it becomes the de-facto standard. Helps to kill competitors. Also the very low price would remove the incentive for those same causal users to download pirated copies.



May 08, 2013 at 11:06 AM
AhamB
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p.10 #18 · Adobe kills standalone software


Beni wrote:
Calling your main client base 'haters' and 'piraters' and other nasty names is not good business.


It's sheer stupidity anyway because most piraters wouldn't care enough to complain in forums but will just keep downloading pirated versions. It's the paying users that are complaining.



May 08, 2013 at 11:28 AM
Lan11
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p.10 #19 · Adobe kills standalone software


Ad: Jman13

Everyone has opinions. We are not negotiating, so if you disagree there is no problem.

Being a user of Adobe products including the PS since ver. 3 I have a pretty good perspective on the PS evolution and so called "upgrades". It took Adobe 25 yrs. to make a decent UI despite constant user's criticism and requests for the PS real improvements and bug fixes which Adobe ignored. Adobe respect for the customers were always zero.

The value of the individual features depend on how often they're used.
The most important is the quality of RAW conversions. Adobe has traded speed for quality. Best examples are the DPP and Olympus converters (the latest converter from their site, not what comes with the camera) vs. ARC.

There is no need to defend Adobe rip offs. Instead of investing time in bug fixes, UI improvements and customer convenience Adobe were focusing efforts on maximum returns, at any cost, and the current scheme is only the next logical step. They want to monopolize the market and control it. Their first attempt was to force their file standard - dng, but luckily it didn't happen.

It is naive to believe in commitment of such a greedy company to a dead app. like CS6 for fixes and support. There are issues beyond their control which will provide good excuse to officially kill the product. How will they support the CS6 if the hardware or the operating system change?

I will not pay for subscription and waste time connecting to a distant cloud where my files may be copied and retained by Adobe only to learn one day that they have copy writes to them.



May 08, 2013 at 11:29 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.10 #20 · Adobe kills standalone software


The silence (or should I say non-reaction) from most of the major photo sites (LL and the such) has been deafening since this announcement. I have really been curious how they would respond. I guess Reichmann will be hedging his bets. His response thus far - "It's complicated". Sounds like what you say to someone you break up with when you don't want to tell them why!

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/whatsnew/



May 08, 2013 at 11:31 AM
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